Hi Peggy,
I had a similar problem with a bathtub drain. We moved into a house
where the guest bathroom tub drain was slow. As years went by, it got
slower and slower.

That's pretty much the situation here.

I too tried everything, not including sulfuric acid, and
was totally stumped. In despairation, I called in a $100 per hour plumber
with a power snake. He sweated and strained and finally ground his way
through a long lost shampoo bottle cap that had become lodged in a pipe
before the trap.

I don't THINK anything has fallen into it...at least not in the 4 years
I've owned the house. But I can't rule out that something could have
when the PO lived here.

The cap had accumulated hair and what not making the seal
almost perfect. It cost but it felt pretty good to get rid of the problem.
The plumber said the worst thing he ever ran into was a marble that had got
stuck. It came out only when the pipe was removed.

By the way, thanks for all your helpful info. on marine heads.

Glad to do it. I just wish this problem were as easy to solve as most of
the ones on boats! But I think you may be onto something. I'm gonna buy
a sink plunger and see what I can accomplish with it. If that doesn't
work, I guess I'll have to call in a plumber.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Bowgus wrote:
Sulphuric acid ... yikes. First, check that you don't have a mess of hair
stuck in the strainer affair in the bottom of the sink.

No strainer in the bottom of the sink (I wish it were that simple!).
I've removed the stopper assembly--the kind that has a plunger tapped
into the discharge pipe that moves it up and down--and I've poked around
the trap with a knitting needle to see if anything is in it. There
isn't... drain is completely open all the way to the bottom of the trap.
Since I haven't been willing to break the joints to remove the trap yet,
I dunno how far past there the blockage is.

If
that's not the problem, try what's called a plunger :-) to clear the
p-trap. You have to hold a wet cloth over the overflow drain...

My bathroom basins don't have one...something that originally led me to
wonder if lack of venting might be the problem. But I've been able to
rule that out.

If that does not work, and there's
no "cleanout" (that plug that unscrews from the bottom of the trap) in the
p trap, then you might as well replace the trap with one that has one.

There isn't one. I was flabbergasted to find that there's no access into
the trap to get anything out of it. In the days when I wore hard
contact lenses, I dropped so many of 'em down the drain I got to be an
expert at getting 'em back!


I'm
sure you're familiar with abs and its installation. I'd just cut the old
drain at a convenient spot, and install a new trap.

Oh yeah...and I will. It's just a PITA job that'll probly end requiring
me to replace a piece I hadn't planned to replace 'cuz I'll probl'ly
crack it getting the parts I wanted to replace off.

Calling a plumber may not be such a bad idea after all...'cuz I'm
starting to remind myself of an old joke:

Repair prices:

If you call us first: $25
If you watch us work: $50
If you try to help: $75
If you tried to fix it yourself before calling us: $150

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

I've had great success pressurising the pipes with the "blow" side of a shop
vac. Be very careful where the pressure lets loose though.

HotRod wrote:

I've had great success pressurising the pipes with the "blow" side of a shop
vac. Be very careful where the pressure lets loose though.

Interesting you should suggest that. I don't have a shop vac...but it
occured to me that a solution of vinegar and baking soda down the drain
might blow whatever is blocking it loose if I also plug the sink. It
produces enough effervescence to blow out a hose connection on a boat if
you're not careful. I don't THINK there's any danger of that happening
in the house, but I'm not sure what else might!

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Roger Derby wrote:
I'm not a plumber, but my richest cousin is a plumbing contractor in
Chicago, and I've been fighting clogged drains for 45 years.

Bowgus has the right idea; replace the trap(s). Sooner or later you'll need
to open them up again. I wouldn't worry about the cleanout plug since most
traps assemble and disassemble easily (except the one from 1919 that I
tackled in Florida. It was soldered in). Put a bucket under the work area
of course.

As to the "long run" idea, note that she said it's a double sink vanity and
the other sink works fine.

Every tool box should have what I call my "skinny fingers." It's a
galvanized metal gadget with a hypodermic type handle on top, a flexible
shaft, and, at the working end, three spring steel fingers that slide in and
out of a 1/4" OD steel tube. About 12" long overall, it retrieves hair
balls, Legos and diamond rings from drains pretty well. You can usually
find them at the auto parts stores.

Roger

I have got such a device, remote finger grapple from the dollar
store. WIWIG (Worth it's weight in gold)
-TK



http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...

Well .. here's a few thoughts ...


What could possibly plug up a bathroom sink drain that even 3 doses of
straight sulphuric acid can't dissolve??? And if sulphuric acid won't
dissolve it, what will, that won't also destroy the pipe (PVC, btw)???

Sulphuric acid ... yikes. First, check that you don't have a mess of hair
stuck in the strainer affair in the bottom of the sink. You can use needle
nose pliers to poke around there and pull up any that might be there. If
that's not the problem, try what's called a plunger :-) to clear the
p-trap. You have to hold a wet cloth over the overflow drain to do this
properly ... best done as a 2 person job. If that does not work, and
there's
no "cleanout" (that plug that unscrews from the bottom of the trap) in
the
p trap, then you might as well replace the trap with one that has one. I'm
sure you're familiar with abs and its installation. I'd just cut the old
drain at a convenient spot, and install a new trap.


Nothing has fallen into it...it's been gradually getting a little slower
for a while. It's not quite plugged completely...but drains so slowly
that the sink is all but unuseable.

Having said all that, if you have a long run from the sink to the main
waste
pipe, the problem could be there ... especially if there's no vent pipe
(that second pipe that allows air in to help with the draining). So if you
do replace the p trap, and there is a long run, maybe snake that run while
you're at it. But you know what ... I'm betting there's a big clog of hair
clinging to the bottom of the strainer in the basin :-).


I don't want to pay a plumbing $100 just to pour something else down the
drain that I can buy for $10. There has to be something that'll dissolve
the clog...but if sulphuric acid won't do it, what will???

I'm open to any ideas that won't dissolve the pipes too.


It's always Sum Bud Yeltse that drops a fingernail polish brush down
and "forgets" to mention it. Months later, things get slow...

I once used a yard blower to clear a plugged toilet my Dad left
behind after his latest visit. Wrapped a towel around the business
end and jammed it down the flush.

Rubber boots, wellies, shower cap, the whole bit. Yes, it spashed
up the walls, but not much. Opened up instantly, where the old coat
hangar couldn't reach. Doing it to the sink may mean you need to
stop up the sink's overflow drain, which would short circuit this
blowdown option. Is there a toilet using the same drain? If so,
air may come out of the toilet if the blockeag is downstream, but
you didn;t say the toilet was slow, right? If not, you probably
have a plug between the sink and the junction with the main toilet
drain which would be under the floor somewhere.

My kitchen sink is getting slower and slower too, It isn't bad once
it gets started, but it can take a while. The vent pipe on the roof
gets plugged with snow somtimes, and I wonder if that (vent
retricted) isn't the real problem. It may be worth the effort to get
up on the roof and use a chimney rod with a hook made from a coat
hangar to snag and pull up or to break up and push down any bird's
nests or leafy clogs that may have blocked the vent pipe.

Can you scope out the arrangement with vents and all?

If the p trap under the sink is plugged, cut it off, glue on a new
one, with a bottom drain on it. This presumes you don't have such a
cleanout drain, but I would expect that you have not been able to
unplug it via that route. Modern traps thread together, are
adjutable for angles, and slip off the tailstock, or bottom drain of
the sink with a compression gasket. It need never be more than hand
tight, if it is the right size is not damaged. It's sometimes better
to lifgt the sink, leaving the trap on the pipe end, depending on
what you have installed.

A mechanical joint might make the installation easier, if space is a
factor. MJ's are flexible and can solve a lot of problems.

Cutting the near horizontal exit pipe to replace the p trap will
enable you to easily insert a cheap wire wound snake with a little
hook on the end bent out which can sometimes snag and remove or
break up a plug, or just ream a new path through the sludge that may
have accumulated in the sloped drain. It depends on how tortuous the
run out is.

It's messy but rewarding work. When ever I get to do such a chore,
I consider the money I have saved over the price of a plumber, and
buy myself a lobster, or some other reward. It's very satisfying.

If the snake won't clean out the drain, it's time to consider
replacing the tortuous or too-near horizontal drain pipe. It may be
possible, in a straight run, to feed pipe in without tearing walls
out. If not, drastic alternatives may serve.

Cutting out a foot of drain at the junction with the main drain will
give you a chance to auger from the other end and closer to the
other possible cause, a curtain of sludge from upstairs. A piece of
pipe can be used to replace the missing foot, again using MJs. I
have used them underground, in plain sight and on boats, with great
satisfaction. One other drastic step is to feed 1/2" pipe inside
from the bottom, to break up a clog. A garden hose running water
could undermine such a plug. A plasic tube surrounding the bottom
pipe and garden hose would conduct the tailings into a washtub on
the ground under the location. Buckets would enable continuing the
process until a satisfactory solution occurs.

Hopefully, you might spot a few hairs hanging on the the grating in
the bottom of the sink, one or two hairs are strong enough to hold
a pretty good plug in place. I have a wire hook I use to rip out
such hairy gobs, and have had to so deal with shower drains in
particular for this problem. Who would think that a few hairs, some
bubbles, a fingernail, or even a bobby pin and a little chip of soap
could trap such an assortment of fluff?

Lye is the preferred drain cleaning agent, used regularly in
problematical drains. It may sequire plentiful application to open a
bad pipe, the big danger is splashing back in the eyes, just keep
putting it down. It won't hurt the pipes, unless they are metal, and
then, you would need a big bag of it. Lye generates heat, but I
doubt you could melt a plasic pipe without heroic attitude.

Lastly, a desperate ploy to prevent tearing out the walls: the
trusty yard blower, hooked on where you cut out a foot near the
junction. This calls for courage, a shower cap, protective goggles,
wellies, a raincoat, elbow length gloves of rubber (ooh! how kinky!)
painter's plasic film protecting the washroom, ceiling, walls,
floor and all, and a roll of duct tape. Before turning on the yard
blower for it's first 30 second burst, hold a metal garbage can lid
near the open end of the pipe, where you cut off the p trap under
the sink. A wash tub or garbage can will probably hold all that may
be expelled in such an unfortunate instance.

The presence of a vent will defeat this plan, unless you plug up the
vent from the roofside, but if may serve several drains, and each
could regurgitate. It's worth a try.

It's only pipes and goo! Yes, Peggie, I am a real household plumber,
unlicensed, uncertificated, not a plumber's union member. I seldom
get paid, but what a reputation I have amongst my relatives! If it
sounds unpleasant, how much would you pay to avoid such a dance?

Think of the fun in the shower afterwards, oh intrepid stentor!

Two weeks ago I had a stent put in my liver / pancreatic duct by
oral endoscope! It happened about 18 hours after I showed up at my
doctor's office. An amazing device, the endoscope.

Jaundice was the clue. Canada Health payed.

Terry K

I would NOT pour anything down the drain that generates gas
because you might develope enough pressure to crack the
plumbing if things go wrong.

I don't own a shop vac either, but I use one every now and
then that I borrow from friends. Surely you know somebody
that you can borrow a shop vac from for an afternoon.

A shop vac could be used as a suction device to pull the
blockage back up the way it went in. After closing off
the vent pipe on the roof, you might be able to use the shop
vac to blow into the other operating drain that you
mentioned and dislodge the blockage that way.

In any case, a shop vac is not going to produce pressures
that can crack the plumbing.



Interesting you should suggest that. I don't have a shop vac...but it
occured to me that a solution of vinegar and baking soda down the drain
might blow whatever is blocking it loose if I also plug the sink. It
produces enough effervescence to blow out a hose connection on a boat if
you're not careful. I don't THINK there's any danger of that happening
in the house, but I'm not sure what else might!

I'm
sure you're familiar with abs and its installation. I'd just cut the old
drain at a convenient spot, and install a new trap.

Oh yeah...and I will. It's just a PITA job that'll probly end requiring
me to replace a piece I hadn't planned to replace 'cuz I'll probl'ly
crack it getting the parts I wanted to replace off.

I just replaced a p trap in the old side of the house upstairs bathroom a
few months ago ... I cut the old drain (vertical section near the floor) and
installed the p trap ... compression fit to the basin tailpiece, length of
abs
from the trap to the connector, and connector to the old abs drain. Took
less than an hour ... I'm the type that (usually) measures 4 times, cuts
once, assembles and checks the fit 1 once, and installs once ... and the
cost was maybe $5 or so ... but since I'm in the refurbish mode with my
current house (geez ... will I ever "settle down"), I had a few parts in the
"plumbing box", so all I needed to go get was the trap.

I tried the "suck" method several times and never got any results, I have
used the shop vac on a 3" ABS pipe that was clogged 30' away and it worked
like a charm, I've also used it on a kitchen sink but you need to close and
cover all other drains with a towel in case the block goes that direction.
Heck I used compressed air to unclog my Dad's drain to the road about 100'
away, we tried with a snake without any results and then got a small amount
of water moving with the compressed air. Once the water was moving we poured
drain cleaner down the pipe that worked it's way to the clog. Any chance
your drain cleaner is not getting to the clog?




"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
t...
HotRod wrote:

I've had great success pressurising the pipes with the "blow" side of a
shop vac. Be very careful where the pressure lets loose though.

Interesting you should suggest that. I don't have a shop vac...but it
occured to me that a solution of vinegar and baking soda down the drain
might blow whatever is blocking it loose if I also plug the sink. It
produces enough effervescence to blow out a hose connection on a boat if
you're not careful. I don't THINK there's any danger of that happening in
the house, but I'm not sure what else might!

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

HotRod wrote:

Any chance
your drain cleaner is not getting to the clog?

I'm 90% certain it is...'cuz the sink IS draining, but just barely. I
put nearly a quart of the sulphuric acid stuff down it--twice...which
should have been enough to send at least some of it all the way through
the trap and to wherever the clog is.

Peggie

HotRod wrote:


I've had great success pressurising the pipes with the "blow" side of a
shop vac. Be very careful where the pressure lets loose though.

Interesting you should suggest that. I don't have a shop vac...but it
occured to me that a solution of vinegar and baking soda down the drain
might blow whatever is blocking it loose if I also plug the sink. It
produces enough effervescence to blow out a hose connection on a boat if
you're not careful. I don't THINK there's any danger of that happening in
the house, but I'm not sure what else might!

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327




--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Peggie wrote:
originally led me to
wonder if lack of venting might be the problem. But I've been able to
rule that out.

My most baffling drain problem ever was finally resolved by climbing
onto the roof and running a snake down the vent. Seems some
inconsiderate critter had chosen that location to build a nest.
(I thought I'd ruled it out too).

PhantMan