Bill McKee wrote:
....


If your gas engine is running, you are a power boat! If you are in neutral,
engine running, you are a power boat,

Wrong! The propulsion system must be "used" for it to be a sailboat.
It is clearly true that if you see a sailboat, with the sails up,
making way as a sailboat, and not showing the steaming light or cone,
you must treat it as a sailboat.

And similarly, if you are being treated as a sailboat, it would be
best to behave in a consistent manner.

On the other hand, if you had an engine available for immediate use,
and failed to use it to avoid a collision, you'd have some serious
explaining to do! But, that would also be true even if the engine
wasn't running.

This does not mean, of course, that a sailboat under power can slip
into neutral anytime and suddenly claim rights as a sailor. But, if
an engine is running it doesn't mean it is automatically a powerboat.
For example, some engines require several minutes of warmup before
they can be engaged.

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article t,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:
He has to avoid the tanker in the channel. If he causes the tanker to run
aground or hit a bridge piling to avoid the collision, the sailboat is going
to be liable for all damages. The tanker, the bridge, all the damage.

Bzzzzt. The tanker will not hit a bridge piling to avoid the
collision.


probably true

Bzzzzt. The tanker will not be damanged.

probably true


Bzzzzt. The tanker will not leave the channel.
Maybe not at the Golden Gate, but the was such a case in the
Chesapeake a few years back where the woman in the 25 foot boat the
got becalmed in the channel was held liable when the freighter grounded.


Bill... who has stand-on status on the ocean?

Actually, the sailboat is still the stand-on vessel, even when
crossing the TSS. It is, however, required "not to impede" the
tanker. You should know this stuff, Jon. You just took the test.


Suggestion (not a hint): Stay away from tankers.


good advice.

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Bill McKee wrote:

Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then
yell at a power boat for impeding you.

Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in
sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car.

DSK


I know what is involved with sailing. Married a good sailors daughter and
used to windsurf. But too many "sailors" figure they have the right of way
as they have a sailboat. I have had "sailors" do a 90 degree in front of me
when lifting the sails and the iron sail is still running, and then yell at
me. They would yell even louder if I collided with them and when they had
to pay enormous sums of money to me.


What's your point? If you know the Rules of the Road, there's never
much doubt about who should give way.


Surely not the overtaking vessel? Must a vessel desiring to turn
from main channel to side route stand on past a harbour entrance
because a zoomer wants to pass between them and their port?

Could we invent turn signals for slow boats, to give those with
power, speed and a lack of courteous patience a more easily notable
legal signal of intentions to turn, given that noisy power vessels
make horn signals adequate for listening and watching sailors
inaudible aboard kilowatt stereo disco boats? Or would such
unauthorized lighting distract starlet eyed go boaters from their
fore deck ornaments?

Do these power mongers not understand the need of sailors to turn
into the wind to hoist their main sails?

Nor is there much doubt as to how hard it is to hit a planing power
boat with a sail boat, and vice versa.

Honest savvy power boaters well know the paranoid schizophrenia they
have forced on sailors and the bad reputation their wild mannered
birds of similar feathering have cultivated for them, well know the
secret rabid detestation that fires every sailor's killing passions
and undeniable mad obsession with reach ramming power boats who so
foolishly come so close as to make possible such sweet, aching
temptation to chisel yet another notch in their stems, and well know
to stay away, as they should from a starved tiger on a short chain.

Those who actually get rammed by sailboats have no one to blame but
themselves, (even the law of the sea agrees,) unless their canny X's
have topped the limit on their gas cards, and the grinning fates
deliver them to their well deserved, slow motion fates. Gradual
horror overtake them, woe by tides and drift the planing challenged
fume less speed boater who dallies wake less long enough for the
long plotting sailors' pack to organize, isolate, surround and
subsume their deserving victims, should Poseidon aid them and grant
conspiring seas, wind and grant calls for rights to starboard tack.

Like a wounded fawn in the teeth of crippled octogenarian wolves,
surely their vessels shall be dismembered and dispersed without
trace, like diseased baby seals in the toothless jaws of tired and
gallopless killer whales.

Aarrgghh! The longer takes the victory, the sweeter the vine of
triumph, the sweeter the smoke of the roasting. May they all overheat;^)

Terry K

Hi Terry
I guess from your post that you dont like power boaters :-)

Power boaters are like car drivers who crash into buses when they stop at
bus stops and then complain that the bus should not have stopped!
Sailboats are always unpredictable by their nature so I can never understand
why so many powerboaters have to overtake sooo close even when there is
plenty of searoom

Tony uk


"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:

"DSK" wrote in message
t...

Bill McKee wrote:

Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then
yell at a power boat for impeding you.

Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in
sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car.

DSK


I know what is involved with sailing. Married a good sailors daughter
and used to windsurf. But too many "sailors" figure they have the right
of way as they have a sailboat. I have had "sailors" do a 90 degree in
front of me when lifting the sails and the iron sail is still running,
and then yell at me. They would yell even louder if I collided with them
and when they had to pay enormous sums of money to me.


What's your point? If you know the Rules of the Road, there's never
much doubt about who should give way.


Surely not the overtaking vessel? Must a vessel desiring to turn from
main channel to side route stand on past a harbour entrance because a
zoomer wants to pass between them and their port?

Could we invent turn signals for slow boats, to give those with power,
speed and a lack of courteous patience a more easily notable legal signal
of intentions to turn, given that noisy power vessels make horn signals
adequate for listening and watching sailors inaudible aboard kilowatt
stereo disco boats? Or would such unauthorized lighting distract starlet
eyed go boaters from their fore deck ornaments?

Do these power mongers not understand the need of sailors to turn into the
wind to hoist their main sails?

Nor is there much doubt as to how hard it is to hit a planing power boat
with a sail boat, and vice versa.

Honest savvy power boaters well know the paranoid schizophrenia they have
forced on sailors and the bad reputation their wild mannered birds of
similar feathering have cultivated for them, well know the secret rabid
detestation that fires every sailor's killing passions and undeniable mad
obsession with reach ramming power boats who so foolishly come so close as
to make possible such sweet, aching temptation to chisel yet another notch
in their stems, and well know to stay away, as they should from a starved
tiger on a short chain.

Those who actually get rammed by sailboats have no one to blame but
themselves, (even the law of the sea agrees,) unless their canny X's have
topped the limit on their gas cards, and the grinning fates deliver them
to their well deserved, slow motion fates. Gradual horror overtake them,
woe by tides and drift the planing challenged fume less speed boater who
dallies wake less long enough for the long plotting sailors' pack to
organize, isolate, surround and subsume their deserving victims, should
Poseidon aid them and grant conspiring seas, wind and grant calls for
rights to starboard tack.

Like a wounded fawn in the teeth of crippled octogenarian wolves, surely
their vessels shall be dismembered and dispersed without trace, like
diseased baby seals in the toothless jaws of tired and gallopless killer
whales.

Aarrgghh! The longer takes the victory, the sweeter the vine of triumph,
the sweeter the smoke of the roasting. May they all overheat;^)

Terry K

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:

"DSK" wrote in message
t...

Bill McKee wrote:

Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then
yell at a power boat for impeding you.

Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in
sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car.

DSK


I know what is involved with sailing. Married a good sailors daughter
and used to windsurf. But too many "sailors" figure they have the right
of way as they have a sailboat. I have had "sailors" do a 90 degree in
front of me when lifting the sails and the iron sail is still running,
and then yell at me. They would yell even louder if I collided with them
and when they had to pay enormous sums of money to me.


What's your point? If you know the Rules of the Road, there's never
much doubt about who should give way.


Surely not the overtaking vessel? Must a vessel desiring to turn from
main channel to side route stand on past a harbour entrance because a
zoomer wants to pass between them and their port?

Could we invent turn signals for slow boats, to give those with power,
speed and a lack of courteous patience a more easily notable legal signal
of intentions to turn, given that noisy power vessels make horn signals
adequate for listening and watching sailors inaudible aboard kilowatt
stereo disco boats? Or would such unauthorized lighting distract starlet
eyed go boaters from their fore deck ornaments?

Do these power mongers not understand the need of sailors to turn into the
wind to hoist their main sails?

Nor is there much doubt as to how hard it is to hit a planing power boat
with a sail boat, and vice versa.

Honest savvy power boaters well know the paranoid schizophrenia they have
forced on sailors and the bad reputation their wild mannered birds of
similar feathering have cultivated for them, well know the secret rabid
detestation that fires every sailor's killing passions and undeniable mad
obsession with reach ramming power boats who so foolishly come so close as
to make possible such sweet, aching temptation to chisel yet another notch
in their stems, and well know to stay away, as they should from a starved
tiger on a short chain.

Those who actually get rammed by sailboats have no one to blame but
themselves, (even the law of the sea agrees,) unless their canny X's have
topped the limit on their gas cards, and the grinning fates deliver them
to their well deserved, slow motion fates. Gradual horror overtake them,
woe by tides and drift the planing challenged fume less speed boater who
dallies wake less long enough for the long plotting sailors' pack to
organize, isolate, surround and subsume their deserving victims, should
Poseidon aid them and grant conspiring seas, wind and grant calls for
rights to starboard tack.

Like a wounded fawn in the teeth of crippled octogenarian wolves, surely
their vessels shall be dismembered and dispersed without trace, like
diseased baby seals in the toothless jaws of tired and gallopless killer
whales.

Aarrgghh! The longer takes the victory, the sweeter the vine of triumph,
the sweeter the smoke of the roasting. May they all overheat;^)

Terry K


And what about the power boater that will become a sailboat after he raises
his sails and turns off the motor. Just because he carries sails, he should
have all the right of way? I carry a paddle on my powerboat, should I not
have right of way over a sailboat?

In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
The colregs do. Did you actually go to the link? I bet you didn't.

Well, have a great evening... I'm outta here until tomorrow
evening. Guess I'll go sailing and see if there are any jetskiers out
there who know the rules of the road.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com



Better not get in front of a tanker. Your posting will come back to haunt
you.

Which posting is that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:

And your "Rules of the Road" have legal validity. I did not go to the site.
AS YOU STATED BOTH Colregs and your "Rules of the Road" for legality. So
you "Rules of the Road" are nada as to concern. It may be a restatement or
interpretation of the Colregs, but other than that they are meaningless.


Bill, the Rules are *in* the colregs. Duhhh... sheesh.




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article ,
Captain Joe Redcloud wrote:
Yes, you can be sure that Jon Gayanzy has NEVER resorted to name calling when it
suited his own purposes.

Poor Billy... he's got a lot of anger. Please join us in feeling sorry
for him.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article ,
Dr. Dr. Smithers Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote:
Capt Joe,
All security experts strongly recommend you do not include your address and
phone number in your UseNet Posts.

He didn't. He's just trolling someone else from alt.sailing.asa.

Captain Joe Redcloud
1882 Chestnut Hill Road
Mohnton PA
(610) 856-7118




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article t,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Yeah, so? What's your point? I know the regs and clearly you can quote
them. What are you trying to tell us here?

That you are an idiot.

Ah, a name caller. Well, ok then. You sure won that argument on the
merits.

No, just stating the obvious.

Yes, it's quite obvious what you are and why you're doing
it... PWCER!!!!




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com