If I were going to take this on, I'd turn the boat upside down and use a
vacuum bag.

I say "if" because I know how much work you have in front of you, and I
know what you might pay for a far better replacement.

It would cost you less, and be far less work, to buy a better boat.

Michiel wrote:
Hello,

I'm looking for a little bit of advise. This is more boat repair then
boat building, but I'm figuring you guys here would have the right
kind of knowledge.

At the beginning of the summer I bought a trailerable fiberglass
minicruiser (a 1983 Gloucester 20). When it rained in the fall I found
there were some leaks into the interior and I found out that the
central part of the deck (not all of it) is balsa cored and one side
of this is saturated with water. All of it has some delamination.

I drilled some holes from the inside and found that the port side is
wet and some of the balsa is dark and the starboard side is mostly
dry. The water may have come in at holes for deck hardware and some
cracks in the gelcoat, one of them spiderweb shaped. As an extra piece
of information, the mast rests on a higher area of the deck which
seems to have a thicker core (probably not balsa) which is dry.

I want to stop the water from getting in and I'm also concerned that
the delamination will cause the gelcoat to flex more and thus crack
more. It's been on my mind and I've thought of the following options:

1 - leave it be. put deck hardware back on sealing carefully with
polysulfide or 3M 4200. Perhaps drill a large number of holes in the
inner skin so the balsa can dry out.

2 - cut out inner skin, scrape out old balsa core and glue down new
balsa or plastic core and then cover this with polyester and
fiberglass.

3 - cut out inner skin, scape out old core and add multiple layers of
fiberglass and polyester, building up until the deck is nice and
stiff.

I'm strongly leaning toward option 3, but also considering 1.

Let me know what you think, please!


Thank you,

Michiel van Wessem

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:56:47 -0500, Michiel
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:28:09 GMT, Jim wrote:

(...)
It would cost you less, and be far less work, to buy a better boat.

Do you really think so? Do you have rough estimates or "guesstimates"
and a suggestion for a different boat? It seems that fixing it
wouldn't be so expensive and not even that much work, just messy and
nasty.

I've done this in a small area (port side genoa track, so about two
metres by 15 cm.) and there's no denying it's a messy job. The expense
is in the time to you, because between shuttling back and forth for
supplies, and the raw labour, and the further labour to correct your
mistakes, could eat up the better part of your season.

On the other hand, you will have a stronger, more secure deck. I
suspect the reaction here is to the fact that it's a 20 foot boat and
thus very cheap on the open market, where everyone seems to want over
35 feet. You can pick up a bulletproof Shark (24 feet) for $5,000,
throw in a sleeping bag, a sandwich and a six pack and go sailing.
It's a good time to buy a well-found smaller boat, but repairing boats
is as expensive, or more so in the cost of core materials, epoxy and
so on, as ever.

So it comes down to how much you like this particular boat.

Fix it because you have to in order to restore the structural
integrite of the deck. One solution I haven't heard is to consider
taking off the entire deck and inverting that. In the long run, that
might be easier, but as I'm unfamiliar with your boat, I can't say.
Another option is to cut in from above, removing panels of gelcoat,
dig out the core, replace the core, bond the deck panels back in and
fill the cuts with thickened epoxy. Fair well, and cover the entire
deck with two-part paint to hide the "scars". Or, frankly, just
gelcoat it for protection. If you DO sell it, it's perversely nice to
show the next buyer that you've done the horrible necessary job
already and have the deck scars to prove it...G

A good core is marine grade plywood encapsulated with epoxy for places
where deck hardware is through bolted. On larger, empty stretches, I'd
use synthetic cores for strength and lightness. A sandwich of inner
skin, core and outer skin--when bonded in an epoxy matrix--is stronger
than solid fibreglass itself.

Get some of Don Casey's deck and hull repair books to see if you want
to tackle this. They are simple, full of diagrams and illustrations,
and have the standard techniques for majour renovations like this.

Not knowing what your requirements are, it's hard to recommend anything.

If you hang around any marina with a pocket full of cash and are
patient, you can do pretty well.

I'd suggest you watch a surveyor or two and learn what to look out for.



Michiel wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:28:09 GMT, Jim wrote:

(...)

It would cost you less, and be far less work, to buy a better boat.


Do you really think so? Do you have rough estimates or "guesstimates"
and a suggestion for a different boat? It seems that fixing it
wouldn't be so expensive and not even that much work, just messy and
nasty.

Michiel

Michiel wrote:

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:28:09 GMT, Jim wrote:

(...)

It would cost you less, and be far less work, to buy a better boat.


Do you really think so? Do you have rough estimates or "guesstimates"
and a suggestion for a different boat? It seems that fixing it
wouldn't be so expensive and not even that much work, just messy and
nasty.

Michiel

....and tiring! I spent 2nd last summer with a dremel, cutting off
antiskid and deck in sections, replacing the basla porrige with
plywood, reassembling and then sculpturing the anti skid back to
reasonable. Next year, starboard side deck? ugh!

Leaks are gone, but the difference in price between a soggy deck
boat and the same solid deck boat is still suspect. Still, now I am
an expert, no;-? Oh, and I did a lot of messing about on the boat,
even if it was only yard sailing

Terry K

Somebody wrote:

It would cost you less, and be far less work, to buy a better boat.

Michiel wrote:

Do you really think so? Do you have rough estimates or "guesstimates"
and a suggestion for a different boat?

I'll try to put this into perspective for you.

I buy materials at prices you would dream about getting.

That is because I buy large quantities of epoxy, deck foam, knitted
glass and fairing compound.

My guess is that it will cost me at least $2,000 for materials and at
least a year's time.

You will pay more.

Add in money for tools and supplies.

I'd budget at least $200 for just abrasives and another $200 for sanding
equipment, if you don't already have them.

You'll spend another $500 for misc tools and supplies.

DAMHIKT

Does this give you enough incentive to recognize that attempting to
rehab a 20 ft, 20+ year old fiberglass boat is economically an unsound path.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
My guess is that it will cost me at least $2,000 for materials and at
least a year's time.


My guess is that either you work very inefficiently, or else
you're sniffing too much resin.

For $2K and a couple months labor, one could completely
remove the deck, use it as tooling, mold a complete new one,
and install it.

You got this right: sanding materials & tools will both cost
a lot.

DSK

DSK wrote:

My guess is that either you work very inefficiently, or else you're
sniffing too much resin.

You haven't priced materials lately, have you?

Think OIL.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
You haven't priced materials lately, have you?

Think OIL.


Actually, I have- am buying materials for a carbon fiber
rowing dinghy. But I think you grossly (very grossly)
overestimated the cost & amount of materials needed for
replacing core on a 20' deck.

It's not going to be free, that's not what I'm saying.

DSK

I figure it'd be somewhat over $10/ft^2.
Core-cell $4-
maybe 4 laminations of:
12 oz. knitted Glass $10/yd = $.80/ft^2/ply
epoxy $70/gal = $.60/ft^2/ply

paint $1/ft^2
plus abrasives, peel ply, fillers, vacuum bag consumables


"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Lew Hodgett wrote:
You haven't priced materials lately, have you?

Think OIL.


Actually, I have- am buying materials for a carbon fiber
rowing dinghy. But I think you grossly (very grossly)
overestimated the cost & amount of materials needed for
replacing core on a 20' deck.

It's not going to be free, that's not what I'm saying.

DSK

Just wondering do you guys that use epoxy for everything also use titanium
for auto body repairs after all it's better than steel. It seems rather
silly to repair a polyester and glass boat which is old with epoxy and the
latest high tech fabrics. Why not try resin infusion too
John
"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
I figure it'd be somewhat over $10/ft^2.
Core-cell $4-
maybe 4 laminations of:
12 oz. knitted Glass $10/yd = $.80/ft^2/ply
epoxy $70/gal = $.60/ft^2/ply

paint $1/ft^2
plus abrasives, peel ply, fillers, vacuum bag consumables


"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Lew Hodgett wrote:
You haven't priced materials lately, have you?

Think OIL.


Actually, I have- am buying materials for a carbon fiber
rowing dinghy. But I think you grossly (very grossly)
overestimated the cost & amount of materials needed for
replacing core on a 20' deck.

It's not going to be free, that's not what I'm saying.

DSK