Roger,
The 'Research Area' never is 'open' as such. And asking one of the
docents probably won't get you anywhere, either. If you go to the
'office' {actually off the Seaport 'grounds'} and state you purpose . .
.. most likely they will be able to help you. Similarly, if you contact
the 'Research Department' {?} via the 'general' web-site link, they do
respond.{just found a direct address - }

A list of the plans they sell, complete with building 'codes' is also
available for free. On our last trip there {Sept of '03} I purchased a
book, '87 Boat Designs - A catalog of Small Boat Plans from Mystic
Seaport' . This book, as well as others with more 'Designs' are
available from Mystic and The WoodenBoat Store, as well as other
locations.

Their address is not 'iffy' and they have been doing this for years.

About, " . . .1959 better than 1996 . . .", things change but memory
inhances. Also, research sometimes corrects previous assumptions. And
the 'focus' of the Museum gets refined. When I first visited the
facility I was about 10 years old . . . I remember there was a Japaneese
Midiget Submarine on outdoor display . . . with a lower hatch open so
you could look inside. It wasn't there about 15 years later when I took
my new bride on our honeymoon. It simply didn't fit the purpose . . .
shipbuilding & techniques of a period in American history. In the same
way, although S-N-G is a viable building technique, if you want YOUR
boat to be depicted on Departments wall, it MUST be made in the
'traditional' manner {although 'glued-lapstrake' is acceptable}.

I'm happy you found what you were looking for, however about your last
comment . . . that's why research is called 'Research' and the reason
for the Department's existance.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Derby"
To: "Ron Magen"
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 09:45
Subject: Pete Cullers plans


Ron,

I'm not surprised that they don't send the plans over the internet,
but I
sure would like a list of what's available, kind of like the ones I
bought
from the Smithsonian. Money isn't the issue, the logistics of using
snail
mail is what bothers me. (address iffy, write check but payable to
whom,
envelope, stamp, ... ) At least an e-mail address for questions would
be
nice.

I've been thru the public displays a couple of times, but the
"research"
section was never open when I was there. As I told one of the
docents, it
was better in 1959 than in 1996, mainly because so many of the little
boats
were lying around in the open on the grass where you could see them.
He's
right that it was terrible for their longevity, but the dark caves
they
reside in now don't allow easy viewing. Are they there to be used and
seen,
or are they just being saved for some future generation that won't be
able
to see them either? (The 1959 visit was a thrill. The 1996 visit
left me
frustrated.)

My immediate concern at the time was the rigging of the jib club on a
scow
schooner model I was working on. I've since gotten the answer
elsewhere,
but it sure would have been easier if I could have visited their
library or
asked someone what documents might be relevant.

Thanks.

Roger

http://derbyrm.mystarband.net

I have recently gotten, from the Ship plans dept. at Mystic, drawings which
are not in the '87' book or any other published catalog of MSM. Call and ask
politely. If you can identify what you want, they're most helpful.

Ron Magen wrote:

Roger,
The 'Research Area' never is 'open' as such. And asking one of the
docents probably won't get you anywhere, either. If you go to the
'office' {actually off the Seaport 'grounds'} and state you purpose . .
. most likely they will be able to help you. Similarly, if you contact
the 'Research Department' {?} via the 'general' web-site link, they do
respond.{just found a direct address - }

A list of the plans they sell, complete with building 'codes' is also
available for free. On our last trip there {Sept of '03} I purchased a
book, '87 Boat Designs - A catalog of Small Boat Plans from Mystic
Seaport' . This book, as well as others with more 'Designs' are
available from Mystic and The WoodenBoat Store, as well as other
locations.

Their address is not 'iffy' and they have been doing this for years.

About, " . . .1959 better than 1996 . . .", things change but memory
inhances. Also, research sometimes corrects previous assumptions. And
the 'focus' of the Museum gets refined. When I first visited the
facility I was about 10 years old . . . I remember there was a Japaneese
Midiget Submarine on outdoor display . . . with a lower hatch open so
you could look inside. It wasn't there about 15 years later when I took
my new bride on our honeymoon. It simply didn't fit the purpose . . .
shipbuilding & techniques of a period in American history. In the same
way, although S-N-G is a viable building technique, if you want YOUR
boat to be depicted on Departments wall, it MUST be made in the
'traditional' manner {although 'glued-lapstrake' is acceptable}.

I'm happy you found what you were looking for, however about your last
comment . . . that's why research is called 'Research' and the reason
for the Department's existance.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Derby"
To: "Ron Magen"
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 09:45
Subject: Pete Cullers plans

Ron,

I'm not surprised that they don't send the plans over the internet,
but I
sure would like a list of what's available, kind of like the ones I
bought
from the Smithsonian. Money isn't the issue, the logistics of using
snail
mail is what bothers me. (address iffy, write check but payable to
whom,
envelope, stamp, ... ) At least an e-mail address for questions would
be
nice.

I've been thru the public displays a couple of times, but the
"research"
section was never open when I was there. As I told one of the
docents, it
was better in 1959 than in 1996, mainly because so many of the little
boats
were lying around in the open on the grass where you could see them.
He's
right that it was terrible for their longevity, but the dark caves
they
reside in now don't allow easy viewing. Are they there to be used and
seen,
or are they just being saved for some future generation that won't be
able
to see them either? (The 1959 visit was a thrill. The 1996 visit
left me
frustrated.)

My immediate concern at the time was the rigging of the jib club on a
scow
schooner model I was working on. I've since gotten the answer
elsewhere,
but it sure would have been easier if I could have visited their
library or
asked someone what documents might be relevant.

Thanks.

Roger

http://derbyrm.mystarband.net

That's right about the research area not being "open". I visited the
Museum last summer trying to do some research on some bark canoes that
I'm pretty sure they have and the main guy who everyone directed me to,
who shall remain nameless, was less than helpful. He directed me to
a catalogue directory that was printed a number of years ago that listed
some boats but would not show me anything else. I was polite and
professional but could not gain access to their hidden collection.
Perhaps I should have introduced myself with a few extra letters after
my name. He did print me out a list from his computer of similar boats
in other museums and was bold enough to request that if I new of any
others, would I please send him info about them.
This was a big disappointment since I assumed these types of
institutions were there to spread knowledge, not corral it. I left with
the new realization that museum research is as competitive as
semiconductor development. Well, at least I learned SOMETHING!
The museum was kind of a disappointment too. I expected more small boats
and really saw fewer than expected. The exhibits were under staffed too.
The souvenir shop seemed to be very well stocked with over priced tee
shirts and fake antiques though.
SteveJ


Ron Magen wrote:
Roger,
The 'Research Area' never is 'open' as such. And asking one of the
docents probably won't get you anywhere, either. If you go to the
'office' {actually off the Seaport 'grounds'} and state you purpose . .
. most likely they will be able to help you. Similarly, if you contact
the 'Research Department' {?} via the 'general' web-site link, they do
respond.{just found a direct address - }

A list of the plans they sell, complete with building 'codes' is also
available for free. On our last trip there {Sept of '03} I purchased a
book, '87 Boat Designs - A catalog of Small Boat Plans from Mystic
Seaport' . This book, as well as others with more 'Designs' are
available from Mystic and The WoodenBoat Store, as well as other
locations.

Their address is not 'iffy' and they have been doing this for years.

About, " . . .1959 better than 1996 . . .", things change but memory
inhances. Also, research sometimes corrects previous assumptions. And
the 'focus' of the Museum gets refined. When I first visited the
facility I was about 10 years old . . . I remember there was a Japaneese
Midiget Submarine on outdoor display . . . with a lower hatch open so
you could look inside. It wasn't there about 15 years later when I took
my new bride on our honeymoon. It simply didn't fit the purpose . . .
shipbuilding & techniques of a period in American history. In the same
way, although S-N-G is a viable building technique, if you want YOUR
boat to be depicted on Departments wall, it MUST be made in the
'traditional' manner {although 'glued-lapstrake' is acceptable}.

I'm happy you found what you were looking for, however about your last
comment . . . that's why research is called 'Research' and the reason
for the Department's existance.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Derby"
To: "Ron Magen"
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 09:45
Subject: Pete Cullers plans



Ron,

I'm not surprised that they don't send the plans over the internet,

but I

sure would like a list of what's available, kind of like the ones I

bought

from the Smithsonian. Money isn't the issue, the logistics of using

snail

mail is what bothers me. (address iffy, write check but payable to

whom,

envelope, stamp, ... ) At least an e-mail address for questions would

be

nice.

I've been thru the public displays a couple of times, but the

"research"

section was never open when I was there. As I told one of the

docents, it

was better in 1959 than in 1996, mainly because so many of the little

boats

were lying around in the open on the grass where you could see them.

He's

right that it was terrible for their longevity, but the dark caves

they

reside in now don't allow easy viewing. Are they there to be used and

seen,

or are they just being saved for some future generation that won't be

able

to see them either? (The 1959 visit was a thrill. The 1996 visit

left me

frustrated.)

My immediate concern at the time was the rigging of the jib club on a

scow

schooner model I was working on. I've since gotten the answer

elsewhere,

but it sure would have been easier if I could have visited their

library or

asked someone what documents might be relevant.

Thanks.

Roger

http://derbyrm.mystarband.net

Steve,
Your experience seems to be the exact opposite of mine. I was not looking
for any individual boat, or Group, just a specific detail or style of
sternsheet. I wanted to take some measurements so I could possibly generate
a 'formula' to adapt it to various small boat hull widths. I was given a
nice 'rummaging tour' by the 'main guy' {I was directed to him by the people
working in the restoration boatyard}. I used the word 'attic' because that
was the environment - dusty, dirty, musty, and moldy. It was NOT a clean,
well lighted, climate-controlled building. In fact it was several very
crowded 'warehouse-like' buildings.

I certainly don't have a card with 'letters' after my name {although I do
have legitimate claim to . . . A.ScMe, A.ScELE, and a B.Sc, so I'm not
exactly illiterate} and I was wearing somewhat 'scruffy' clothes. However, I
remember, specifically, his comment that, " . . . most people don't realize
that's what we're actually here for . . . research".

As a Member, I'm sorry your experience was not to your liking. The Seaport,
like a great many other such institutions, has limited funds and personnel
resources. Many of the people you see 'working' there are actually un-paid
volunteers. They have 'donations' of artifacts from many sources, but not
the best places to store them, or people & time to 'catalog' them. Plus the
fact that a lot of items have been there a long time. Why should they spend
the money to simply 're-do' or 're-print' a catalog when the items haven't
changed. Yes, a lot of the 'stuff' in the Gift Shop is over-priced . . . did
you also notice that it was OUTSIDE the Entrance. The prices are actually on
par with that charged by "Preston's", "Wind in the Rigging", and other
sellers. I not 'thrilled' either, but would rather see the extra profits go
to support some place like the Seaport, then just add to some corporate
'bottom line'.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"steveJ" wrote in message
...
That's right about the research area not being "open". I visited the
Museum last summer trying to do some research on some bark canoes that
I'm pretty sure they have and the main guy who everyone directed me to,
who shall remain nameless, was less than helpful. He directed me to
a catalogue directory that was printed a number of years ago that listed
some boats but would not show me anything else.
SNIP

Steve J, Roger and Ron,

I wish I could be enough help to get you contact names, but I have been
out of the village too long.

If you call the office, explain what you want and are very patient, you
will probably be directed to someone that can point you to the
information or access that you need. The amount of information that is
stored there is awesome (in the true sense). Expect to buy a
membership, but it will be worth every penny.

The changes that have been made to the Seaport Museum over some fifty
years are significant, and unfortunately very many were driven by
liability issues. There were very many things that I remember having
access to as a child that are no longer available to the public. They
do have a whole lot more in their collection than could possibly be
displayed.

For information. That was not a midget sub, but a man-guided torpedo and
I believe it is over at the submarine museum in Groton now along with
some other pieces of history.

Matt Colie


steveJ wrote:
That's right about the research area not being "open". I visited the
Museum last summer trying to do some research on some bark canoes that
I'm pretty sure they have and the main guy who everyone directed me to,
who shall remain nameless, was less than helpful. He directed me to
a catalogue directory that was printed a number of years ago that listed
some boats but would not show me anything else. I was polite and
professional but could not gain access to their hidden collection.
Perhaps I should have introduced myself with a few extra letters after
my name. He did print me out a list from his computer of similar boats
in other museums and was bold enough to request that if I new of any
others, would I please send him info about them.
This was a big disappointment since I assumed these types of
institutions were there to spread knowledge, not corral it. I left with
the new realization that museum research is as competitive as
semiconductor development. Well, at least I learned SOMETHING!
The museum was kind of a disappointment too. I expected more small boats
and really saw fewer than expected. The exhibits were under staffed too.
The souvenir shop seemed to be very well stocked with over priced tee
shirts and fake antiques though.
SteveJ


Ron Magen wrote:

Roger,
The 'Research Area' never is 'open' as such. And asking one of the
docents probably won't get you anywhere, either. If you go to the
'office' {actually off the Seaport 'grounds'} and state you purpose . .
. most likely they will be able to help you. Similarly, if you contact
the 'Research Department' {?} via the 'general' web-site link, they do
respond.{just found a direct address - }

A list of the plans they sell, complete with building 'codes' is also
available for free. On our last trip there {Sept of '03} I purchased a
book, '87 Boat Designs - A catalog of Small Boat Plans from Mystic
Seaport' . This book, as well as others with more 'Designs' are
available from Mystic and The WoodenBoat Store, as well as other
locations.

Their address is not 'iffy' and they have been doing this for years.

About, " . . .1959 better than 1996 . . .", things change but memory
inhances. Also, research sometimes corrects previous assumptions. And
the 'focus' of the Museum gets refined. When I first visited the
facility I was about 10 years old . . . I remember there was a Japaneese
Midiget Submarine on outdoor display . . . with a lower hatch open so
you could look inside. It wasn't there about 15 years later when I took
my new bride on our honeymoon. It simply didn't fit the purpose . . .
shipbuilding & techniques of a period in American history. In the same
way, although S-N-G is a viable building technique, if you want YOUR
boat to be depicted on Departments wall, it MUST be made in the
'traditional' manner {although 'glued-lapstrake' is acceptable}.

I'm happy you found what you were looking for, however about your last
comment . . . that's why research is called 'Research' and the reason
for the Department's existance.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Derby"
To: "Ron Magen"
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 09:45
Subject: Pete Cullers plans



Ron,

I'm not surprised that they don't send the plans over the internet,


but I

sure would like a list of what's available, kind of like the ones I


bought

from the Smithsonian. Money isn't the issue, the logistics of using


snail

mail is what bothers me. (address iffy, write check but payable to


whom,

envelope, stamp, ... ) At least an e-mail address for questions would


be

nice.

I've been thru the public displays a couple of times, but the


"research"

section was never open when I was there. As I told one of the


docents, it

was better in 1959 than in 1996, mainly because so many of the little


boats

were lying around in the open on the grass where you could see them.


He's

right that it was terrible for their longevity, but the dark caves


they

reside in now don't allow easy viewing. Are they there to be used and


seen,

or are they just being saved for some future generation that won't be


able

to see them either? (The 1959 visit was a thrill. The 1996 visit


left me

frustrated.)

My immediate concern at the time was the rigging of the jib club on a


scow

schooner model I was working on. I've since gotten the answer


elsewhere,

but it sure would have been easier if I could have visited their


library or

asked someone what documents might be relevant.

Thanks.

Roger

http://derbyrm.mystarband.net

Matt,
I DON'T have ANY problem with the Seaport; we have been Members {on and off}
for about 20 years.

Thanks for the 'tidbit' on the sub. I knew it had been moved to the Sub
Museum, but was un-aware {forgotten ?} it was a 'suicide torpedo'.

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Steve J, Roger and Ron,

I wish I could be enough help to get you contact names, but I have been
out of the village too long.
SNIP
For information. That was not a midget sub, but a man-guided torpedo and
I believe it is over at the submarine museum in Groton now along with
some other pieces of history.

Matt Colie