I am thinking about to build a Bruce Roberts 340 because I like some
details of it and I am close to order his plans (but not the cutting files).
Before taking any decision I would like to get some more information of
others because BR makes a lot of advertising and he is talking about
thousands of boats built, however
the little information in news list and others are mostly not very
favourable on the quality of plans and the saling quality and on BR
himself.
This makes me a little suspicious.

I cannot find any of his boats on the secondhand market.

So could you please comment:

1.Is it possible to build one of his designs out of his plans easily or
with a lot of complications ?
2. Are the plans complete ?
3. Does BR give a sufficient after sail service, by answering questions
or does he only want to make money ?
4. Has anybody seen a Bruce Roberts design and spoken to the skipper
about the boat ?
5. General remarks on his design and the stability ?
6. Are there any stability information about his boats ?
7. Why are none of his boats on the second hand market ?

Thanks for helping me.

GGF - European Union

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:01:58 +0100, GK wrote:

I am thinking about to build a Bruce Roberts 340 because I like some
details of it and I am close to order his plans (but not the cutting files).
Before taking any decision I would like to get some more information of
others because BR makes a lot of advertising and he is talking about
thousands of boats built, however
the little information in news list and others are mostly not very
favourable on the quality of plans and the saling quality and on BR
himself.
This makes me a little suspicious.

So it should. I've seen some beautifully done BR designs...but I don't
know how they sailed and credit for the nice builds has nothing to do
with BR.

Also, I've seen a lot of total crap low on its lines and with a finish
Ray Charles would criticize. BR designs are like Hyundais of 15 years
ago...ok for getting around, but not taken seriously in some quarters.

The Spray class in particular gets a lot of criticism for taking a bad
idea (19th century oyster boat) and assuming that the design, and not
the skill of Slocum, got the thing around the world. I hear they are
total pigs to sail.

I cannot find any of his boats on the secondhand market.

That's odd. I went to Yachtworld.com, and put in "Bruce Roberts" under
"builder/mfg" and 25 to 55 feet in size and "All" in the country slot,
and got 70 hits, ranging from 345,000 euros to 20,000 euros.

Frankly, they are very common, as both home builders and boatyards do
them as custom jobs. That's why there is probably the biggest range in
quality in these boats: skill set of the builders.

R.

Hi

You are quite right ,but please remember that the skills of the builder
can also compensate for bad plans. Now I have no experience with the
plans you discuss, but I know about a very famous shipyard who bought a
serie of very expensive plans for serie of steel boats -- these plans
was so bad even the boats displayed very nice, but the making of the
plans simply produced ribs for boats that could not be build, hull
surfaces that would not meet the frames and after more than halve a
year just trying to build one of the designs the shipyard was nearly
broke.
I say so from knowing a very skilled metal worker working with this
project --- he figured out what was wrong and scrapped all the lofted
frames and took the measures from the sheets and just the few frames
that acturly followed the lines in the plans. The space between the
projected ribs in the plans and the panels turned out to be up to 12
Cm. apart, ------- now one boat was finaly made and please bear in mind
that this shipyard was among the top profesional ones ,but the plans
was scrapped money thrown out of the window , and what's more to say ;
sure one boat was build but it was oly possible becaurse a few very
skilled craftsmen could make it work and not from the plans but from
experience and hands-on experience, still if you measured the ship
produced up against the plans you would say it was not the same ship.

Eh --- please let me add, that the worse foult with those plans you
could acturly see right away in the plans ; it was two or 3 chine hulls
and not one single frame showed the curve that a singe curved paneling
_will_ show when sliced seen from front.
No rib or very few ribs, will be strait in real with two or tree chine
hulls unless we talk about very clumpsy designs, but these ribs in
these very expensive plans all showed as strait lines in the front
view, ------ offcaurse the shipyard shuld have notised from the start,
but they belived in that when a world's famous designer made plans,
then they would work.

On 22 Jan 2006 05:09:30 -0800, wrote:

sure one boat was build but it was oly possible becaurse a few very
skilled craftsmen could make it work and not from the plans but from
experience and hands-on experience, still if you measured the ship
produced up against the plans you would say it was not the same ship.


Well, the designer should have been sued, because it is his/her
responsibility to ensure the measurements and lofting, etc. will mate
together to a specified tolerance in the real world.

If not, all that steel is just an abstract sculpture. CAD can and has
done this sort of thing for decades now...there is no excuse and the
yard has a strong case for putting the designer out of business,
unless a third party fabricated the steel improperly, perhaps.

R.

GGF,

I own a Bruce Roberts designed Mauritius 43. Mine was constructed of
steel. It has a center cockpit, raised poop, cutter-ketch rig. The
boat's name is Truelove. That ought to give you some idea of what I
think of her.

She is very strong and safe. She has gone through hurricanes 9 times.
I have ridden them out on her 3 times. She has been run aground,
banged up against pylons and docks, all without any damage at all.

She sails surprisingly well. Even in light air, which you would not
expect from a boat displacing 32,000 pounds. Of course, with a full
keel and that kind of weight, she sails like a dream when the wind
pipes up.

The deck and hull of Truelove were constructed professionally in
Kettle Creek, Ontario. She was then motored down to Patchouge, Long
Island, New York. There the previous owner spent six years building
the interior. Fortunately, he was very highly skilled and built a
beautiful interior of cream-colored bulkheads trimmed in cherry etc.
After that he motored her to the Chesapeake Bay where the spars were
set in her.

The previous owner was very complimentary of Bruce Roberts and his
plans. I have met the fellow (Aussie, now living in Maryland, US]
but don't know anything of value about him. Nor do I have any genuine
knowledge about the plans. I have heard that he is a typical artist
in that he thinks pretty highly of his plans and himself.

I did meet another fellow who built a Mauritius 43 this past fall. He
built his boat by himself. It was really beautiful. He, too, sang
its praises. I did not ask, but he did not mention anything about
problems with the plans or Bruce Roberts.

As with any designer, some designs turn out to be slugs and some are
wonderful. I agree with a previous poster that the Spray seems like
an odd design to copy. I regret that I cannot give you any
information about the 340.

If you own a certain model of vehicle, you notice how many are on the
road. Since I own a Bruce Roberts design, I seem to notice a lot of
them around. In fact, I know of a partially built Mauritius 43 for
sale in Morehead City, North Carolina right now. Might be hard to get
to Europe, though. :-)

Good luck.

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
on the hard at Bock Marine
Beaufort, NC USA

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:36:35 GMT, (Lee
Huddleston) wrote:

If you own a certain model of vehicle, you notice how many are on the
road. Since I own a Bruce Roberts design, I seem to notice a lot of
them around. In fact, I know of a partially built Mauritius 43 for
sale in Morehead City, North Carolina right now. Might be hard to get
to Europe, though. :-)

It is a tribute of sorts to BR that so many people have bought his
designs. It's also a tribute that they can be finished in a way that
connotes strength and longevity, and yet also sails well and
comfortably.

I don't reject the notion that a home/owner-built yacht cannot in fact
be a great deal *better* than a production boat, or even that the
finest of modern designs are not available to the home-builder (Dudley
Dix and Angelo Lavranos come to mine). What I would argue is that the
skills and determination and yes, the money to properly realize the
architect's intentions with the design do not often meet in the same
boat.

Your own boat might be a case in point...if it was so magnificently
done by another fellow, how did you get the benefit of it? I can guess
that the original builder, who took years to do the job right,
possibly got too old or sick to use the boat, and had to sell it.

I hope the process was enough for that individual. Were I 25, I might
do it myself, but if I ever want to cruise for extended periods, my
compromise will likely be to modify an existing vessel.

R.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 23:01:58 -0500, rhys wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:36:35 GMT, (Lee
Huddleston) wrote:

If you own a certain model of vehicle, you notice how many are on the
road. Since I own a Bruce Roberts design, I seem to notice a lot of
them around. In fact, I know of a partially built Mauritius 43 for
sale in Morehead City, North Carolina right now. Might be hard to get
to Europe, though. :-)

It is a tribute of sorts to BR that so many people have bought his
designs. It's also a tribute that they can be finished in a way that
connotes strength and longevity, and yet also sails well and
comfortably.

I don't reject the notion that a home/owner-built yacht cannot in fact
be a great deal *better* than a production boat, or even that the
finest of modern designs are not available to the home-builder (Dudley
Dix and Angelo Lavranos come to mine). What I would argue is that the
skills and determination and yes, the money to properly realize the
architect's intentions with the design do not often meet in the same
boat.

You are quite correct. I good design does not necessarily mean a good
boat. There are a lot of opportunities to turn a silk purse into a
sow's ear. By the same token, I imagine that it is possible for very
good craftsman to make a poor design come out better than one would
expect.

Your own boat might be a case in point...if it was so magnificently
done by another fellow, how did you get the benefit of it? I can guess
that the original builder, who took years to do the job right,
possibly got too old or sick to use the boat, and had to sell it.

That is exactly what happened. The couple that built the boat spent
years working on it and living aboard. By the time they were finished
they were too fragile to do extensive sailing. After I bought the
boat, they moved to Florida and retired to a home there. Subsequently
the wife died. I was very lucky to be able to purchase the boat just
when they decided to sell. In fact, I really was not in the market
for such a boat, but when I saw it and realized what a good deal it
was, I could not resist. I fell in love. Which is why she is called
"Truelove."

I hope the process was enough for that individual. Were I 25, I might
do it myself, but if I ever want to cruise for extended periods, my
compromise will likely be to modify an existing vessel.

R.

Yes, I agree. If you really want to enjoy the process of building a
boat, by all means do so. But, if your goal is to sail to far off
places, buy a used boat and immediately take off or just modify an
existing boat. It takes enought time to just get a good boat in shape
for extensive sailing. Building a boat and then sailing it requires
you to start young enough to complete both goals.

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
on the hard at Bock Marine
Beaufort, NC