We're not quite finished with our first try at boat building. It's a
10' nesting sailboat of our own design and for novices, I must admit
that it actually looks like a boat! Now I need help figuring out what
to do for a mast and sails. I'd hoped to find some cheap sails on
Ebay but haven't seen anything much of the right size. So I'm
currently considering making the sails and probably the mast too.
We're thinking of maybe a spirit rig. All the info that I've found on
the web on sail making seems to center on tarps. I'm not convinced
that that's the way I want to go but I also don't want to have to buy
a snazzy new sailmaking sewing machine for this boat (my sewing
machine doesn't like trying to go through heavy sail material). I've
been looking at some probably nylon material at Walmart that looks
fairly similar to the snark type sails. Do you think this would work
or do you have any other suggestions?

Also appreciate any suggestions or links on making a mast. We're
thinking of either aluminum tubing or using a good 2X4.

Appreciate any and all suggestions.

Thanks!

Sandy

Sandy,

For the size sail you're talking about you wan't be doing much heavy
sewing at all. Any of the heavy stuff can be done by hand. You certainly
don't need the same weight material that a 35' racing machine uses 8-)

Just for jollys make the first one out of Tyvek, duPont advertising and
all. Either stick it together w/ double-sided carpet tape or sew it too.
Google for "tyvek sail" (w/o the quotes), several interesting ones in
there. nd googling for "polytarp sail" will get you many items in
addition to this one
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/sto.../polysails.htm which is a GOOD
source for lots of intfo anyway. NAYY...

That way you can get into sailmaking without breaking the bank.

Next try to find a local sailmaker and beg whatever lightweight
scraps you can, perhaps even (oh horrors) buying enough for a complete
sail. I think you will be FAR happier with sailcloth rather than some
"nylon" from Walmart's. For a mainsail you certainly do NOT want nylon,
it stretches too much, even rip-stop nylon won' t do so well. Sailmakers
use rip-stop nylon of spinnakers, not mains and jibs. What they use for
that is rip-stop dacron. Much less stretch in that.

Let us know how you make out, Pirate_Dave
--
In article , sandy wrote:
We're not quite finished with our first try at boat building. It's a
10' nesting sailboat of our own design and for novices, I must admit
that it actually looks like a boat! Now I need help figuring out what
to do for a mast and sails. I'd hoped to find some cheap sails on
Ebay but haven't seen anything much of the right size. So I'm
currently considering making the sails and probably the mast too.
We're thinking of maybe a spirit rig. All the info that I've found on
the web on sail making seems to center on tarps. I'm not convinced
that that's the way I want to go but I also don't want to have to buy
a snazzy new sailmaking sewing machine for this boat (my sewing
machine doesn't like trying to go through heavy sail material). I've
been looking at some probably nylon material at Walmart that looks
fairly similar to the snark type sails. Do you think this would work
or do you have any other suggestions?

Also appreciate any suggestions or links on making a mast. We're
thinking of either aluminum tubing or using a good 2X4.

Appreciate any and all suggestions.

Thanks!

Sandy

Dave Cannell ) writes:

Google for "tyvek sail" (w/o the quotes), several interesting ones in

leave the quotes around "tyvek sail" when doing a Google search or you'll
get everything that has tyvek or sail in it, 'way too much. you just want
references to websites that ahve both tyvek and sail. Another way to get
them both is to put a plus sign between tyvek and sail, ie tyvek + sail.

I've made cheap sprit sails out of nylon and cotton canvas. there are
photos and descriptions on my website (see below) plus a file of
information on making sprit sails. There's a diagram for cutting a sprit
sail in the design for the 15 ft solo cruiser.

ordinary nylon cloth comes in 5 ft wide rolls. you have to use the kind
you can't breathe through. if air can pass through the cloth the sail loses
a lot of power. the nylon will stretch a lot on the bias. because of the
stretch it won't sail upwind very well. all that is mentioned in tF Jones
"Boats to Go" where he discusses a cheap nylon sail for canoes and kayaks. I
got around the bias stretch by using two thicknesses of nylon at 45 deg to
each other. My boat sails upwind fine.

cotton canvas is good. it will let some air through so look for a tight
weave. before they had synthetic sailcloth they used to throw buckets of
water on cotton canvas sails during races to get the threads to swell up
and keep air from passing through the cloth. My sail works fine. Notice
that it has a mast sleeve and a loop for attaching the sprit sewed into
the luff of the sail.

Bamboo makes nice light spars for very small boats. I have a bamboo mast
and sprit for the cotton canvas sail. The nylon sail used to have a bamboo
mast and sprit until they got wet, softened, and broke. The nylon sail has
a fir mast cut from a 2x4. A 2x4 is actually 1.75 x 1.75 so if you slice
off 1.75 you get a square piece. you can then set a circular saw to 45 deg
and rip off teh corners to ge a 8-sided piece. I forget if I drew lines on
the stick to guid teh cut or if I had bought the rip fence of the saw by
then. the rip fence helps but they cost $10 or so. I rounded the stick
with an old hunting knife and smooted it by scraping with a thick piece of
broken glass (bottom of a broken bottle). No need to buy a plane. My last
innovation was to make a sprit from 3 metal broom handles that comes apart
for transportation and stowage. That has worked well.


--
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homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
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On 5 Feb 2004 13:28:10 -0800, (sandy) wrote:

We're not quite finished with our first try at boat building. It's a
10' nesting sailboat of our own design and for novices, I must admit
that it actually looks like a boat! Now I need help figuring out what
to do for a mast and sails. I'd hoped to find some cheap sails on
Ebay but haven't seen anything much of the right size. So I'm
currently considering making the sails and probably the mast too.
We're thinking of maybe a spirit rig. All the info that I've found on
the web on sail making seems to center on tarps. I'm not convinced
that that's the way I want to go but I also don't want to have to buy
a snazzy new sailmaking sewing machine for this boat (my sewing
machine doesn't like trying to go through heavy sail material). I've
been looking at some probably nylon material at Walmart that looks
fairly similar to the snark type sails. Do you think this would work
or do you have any other suggestions?

Also appreciate any suggestions or links on making a mast. We're
thinking of either aluminum tubing or using a good 2X4.

Appreciate any and all suggestions.

Have you considered a small windsurfer sail? With its spar it would be
much more efficient than a sprit sail, especially if you wouldn't use
sailcloth for the spritsail.




Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


Capsizing under chute, and having the chute rise and fill without tangling, all while Mark and Sally are still behind you

A good straight spruce 2x4 will work just fine and in my opinion be much
nicer than an aluminum tube but you may want the mast a little thicker
than 1.5 inches at the base which will require gluing a couple of cheeks
on before shaping. Consider buying a 2x6 since they often are better
quality than a 2x4. Just taper it to about 1.5 x1.5 on the top and about
2.25 inches on the bottom. Mabey thinner. You want the mast to flex so
it will spill wind in a gust. Go at it with a circular saw then a draw
knife, then a hand plane. Easier then it sounds.
Also, here is a link to some basic sail making info that will work.
http://www.dragonflycanoe.com/stephe...d_rigging.html
Personally I'd go with a sprit rig with a loose foot because there is no
boom to duck when tacking and the mast can be kept short enough to fit
in the boat when not up.
A sail like this could be made of cheap cotton muslin as is sold for
painters drop cloth. This may be the cheapest way to go but you will
need to dry the sail before putting away or in will rot eventually.
Tyvek? Ugh. Polyester sailcloth would be the best way to go.


sandy wrote:
We're not quite finished with our first try at boat building. It's a
10' nesting sailboat of our own design and for novices, I must admit
that it actually looks like a boat! Now I need help figuring out what
to do for a mast and sails. I'd hoped to find some cheap sails on
Ebay but haven't seen anything much of the right size. So I'm
currently considering making the sails and probably the mast too.
We're thinking of maybe a spirit rig. All the info that I've found on
the web on sail making seems to center on tarps. I'm not convinced
that that's the way I want to go but I also don't want to have to buy
a snazzy new sailmaking sewing machine for this boat (my sewing
machine doesn't like trying to go through heavy sail material). I've
been looking at some probably nylon material at Walmart that looks
fairly similar to the snark type sails. Do you think this would work
or do you have any other suggestions?

Also appreciate any suggestions or links on making a mast. We're
thinking of either aluminum tubing or using a good 2X4.

Appreciate any and all suggestions.

Thanks!

Sandy

Thanks for the suggestions. I've got a couple more questions.

1. We plan to carry the boat on our "new" motorhome and use in small
lakes for messing around and also quite a bit of fishing. Which type
sail rig would be best for these uses? We'd like something where we
can take down sail easily when we are fishing and that can store
easily at our campsite.

2. I've tried sewing on an old piece of sail material with my sewing
machine and it didn't work. But the material is really heavy duty.
Will I be able to sew 4 oz dacron with a normal sewing machine? And
do I need special thread (or can I use a good quality polyester thread
from our local fabric store)?

3. Hubby is leaning toward aluminum tubes for mast. Will be looking
into flagpoles. Any other suggestions on thickness or ?

Sometimes I realize that I don't know enough to know what questions to
ask!

Thanks!

Sandy

sandy ) writes:
Thanks for the suggestions. I've got a couple more questions.

1. We plan to carry the boat on our "new" motorhome and use in small
lakes for messing around and also quite a bit of fishing. Which type
sail rig would be best for these uses? We'd like something where we
can take down sail easily when we are fishing and that can store
easily at our campsite.

A sprit sail is unshipped by folding the sprit up against the mast,
lifting the rig out of the mast step, and rotating the mast to wrap the
sail around the mast and sprit. The sail, mast, and sprit can them be laid
down in the boat. I do it all the time with mine because I switch back and
forth between sailing and paddling a lot. The blue canvas sail on my
website is easy to put to gether and take apart right in the boat because
its so small, light, and has a mast sleve.


2. I've tried sewing on an old piece of sail material with my sewing
machine and it didn't work. But the material is really heavy duty.
Will I be able to sew 4 oz dacron with a normal sewing machine? And
do I need special thread (or can I use a good quality polyester thread
from our local fabric store)?

I had no problems making the nylon on my sewing machine. People who have
made sails on household sewing machines have recommended a heavy duty
needle. People sew sails for small boats by hand, a couple of winter
evenings. The mast sleve on my canvas sail was sewn by hand. The edges
were hemmed when I bought the cloth second hand.


3. Hubby is leaning toward aluminum tubes for mast. Will be looking
into flagpoles. Any other suggestions on thickness or ?

People have mentioned using aluminum electrical conduit. It would be
thinner and lighter. You want the thinnest mast that will do the job
because of the way a mast disturbs air flowing over the sail. For the
fussy sailer a mast sleve smooths the air flow around the mast. How big
(height, square feet) is your planned sail?


Sometimes I realize that I don't know enough to know what questions to
ask!

Don't worry about it. Keep asking until you do.

--
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homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Sandy,

You'll be wanting some thread that resists the effects of UV (UltraViolet)
light. Go to either SailRite (http://www.sailrite.com) or Steve Ferrel at
(http://www.kitebuilder.com) and buy a cone of the stuff. I don't think
you'll regret it. For working from a cone on a reguler sewing machine
you'll need a thread stand, certainly less than $10 from JoAnn's and much
cheaper than that if you make one.

You just might get hooked on either site 8-) (Kites are fun too).

You might ask at the SailRite site about the weight of the dacron that you
need for the sail, I have no idea if 4oz is what you need.

Here's a site on making a Tyvek sail, interesting reading even if you
don't do an expriment with Tyvek. http://www.boat-links.com/Tyvek/

Also check out the Mother of All Maritime links at
http://www.boat-links.com/boatlink.html. You should be able to find lots
of info in there 8-)

You may find it easier to work with the slippery material if you get a
"walking foot" for your sewing machine. A walking foot helps to feed the
top layer as the feed dogs feed the bottom. Not sure of the cost of that
item as my machine has it built in.

For this boat I still like the idea of a wooden mast, especially with the
sprit rig. Not as noisey, probably easier to attach things to and
certainly looks better. With a sprit rig all the spars will fit in the
boat.

Keep up the dialog and let us know how you make out.

Pirate_Dave
--
In article , sandy wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions. I've got a couple more questions.

1. We plan to carry the boat on our "new" motorhome and use in small
lakes for messing around and also quite a bit of fishing. Which type
sail rig would be best for these uses? We'd like something where we
can take down sail easily when we are fishing and that can store
easily at our campsite.

2. I've tried sewing on an old piece of sail material with my sewing
machine and it didn't work. But the material is really heavy duty.
Will I be able to sew 4 oz dacron with a normal sewing machine? And
do I need special thread (or can I use a good quality polyester thread
from our local fabric store)?

3. Hubby is leaning toward aluminum tubes for mast. Will be looking
into flagpoles. Any other suggestions on thickness or ?

Sometimes I realize that I don't know enough to know what questions to
ask!

Thanks!

Sandy

"sandy" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the suggestions. I've got a couple more questions.

1. We plan to carry the boat on our "new" motorhome and use in small
lakes for messing around and also quite a bit of fishing. Which type
sail rig would be best for these uses? We'd like something where we
can take down sail easily when we are fishing and that can store
easily at our campsite.

2. I've tried sewing on an old piece of sail material with my sewing
machine and it didn't work. But the material is really heavy duty.
Will I be able to sew 4 oz dacron with a normal sewing machine? And
do I need special thread (or can I use a good quality polyester thread
from our local fabric store)?

3. Hubby is leaning toward aluminum tubes for mast. Will be looking
into flagpoles. Any other suggestions on thickness or ?

Sometimes I realize that I don't know enough to know what questions to
ask!

Thanks!

Sandy

1 - I don't know although some sort of lug sail might be easiest to balance
fore and aft since you've said that this is your own design.

2 - I've used "outdoor carpet tape" on my white polytarp sail for some years
with minimal problems. I got the tarp and tape from a local hardware store
and have been pretty happy with it.

3 - Finding aluminium tube can be quite a challenge - check around for metal
wholesalers. I get mine from a chain called
http://www.metalsupermarkets.com Prices will vary quite a bit and no - I
have no connection with them.

--
Andrew Butchart

http://www.floatingbear.ca

(sandy) wrote in message m...
We're not quite finished with our first try at boat building. It's a
10' nesting sailboat of our own design and for novices, I must admit
that it actually looks like a boat! Now I need help figuring out what
to do for a mast and sails. I'd hoped to find some cheap sails on
Ebay but haven't seen anything much of the right size. So I'm
currently considering making the sails and probably the mast too.
We're thinking of maybe a spirit rig. All the info that I've found on
the web on sail making seems to center on tarps. I'm not convinced
that that's the way I want to go but I also don't want to have to buy
a snazzy new sailmaking sewing machine for this boat (my sewing
machine doesn't like trying to go through heavy sail material). I've
been looking at some probably nylon material at Walmart that looks
fairly similar to the snark type sails. Do you think this would work
or do you have any other suggestions?

Also appreciate any suggestions or links on making a mast. We're
thinking of either aluminum tubing or using a good 2X4.

Appreciate any and all suggestions.

Thanks!

Sandy


If you get impatient you can visit Boat US or similar and look at the
sail rig for the "Walker Bay" series of small dingys, 8-10 feet. They
sell a sail package for about $300. A lot of money yes, but nice alum
mast, nice sail, hardware, etc. Just hook it up and go.
If you are going to build I would go with the camp that says go ahead
and make the mast of laminated spruce (from standard 2x4"s). For a
dink this will do as well as any "high tech" (read high price) mast,
however, I would still like something other than the cheapest,
dirtyest sail, where a few bucks can make a noticable difference in
performance.. Just my opinions here, Scotty.