I scored 350 kg of lead over the weekend for free from various tires
centres. I found outwhat the trick is.... go to tire centres where they sell
a lot of mag wheels... they use adhesive backing instead of clips to attach
to the wheel. I still have weights with clips but not as many. In the mortal
words of Homer Simpson...YoooHooo!!!!
They are to go int a hollow fin keel for a hartley 21. Should I fust pour
them in and cover with epoxy or should I melt the lead and poor into the
keel?

There is no question, melting in the right way to go.
One year one of the English designed and build sailboat flipped over and
sunk.
For a while nobody knew exactly what took place. Once the sailboat was on
land they soon learned that a hole had been punctures in the encapsulated
keel and all the lead pellets were gone. They concluded that at one time
the sailboat may have been aground and damaged the fibreglass encapsulating
the keel. Over time the lead pellets dropped out of the encapsulated keel
leaving the boat with no more ballast.


"sam" wrote in message
...
I scored 350 kg of lead over the weekend for free from various tires
centres. I found outwhat the trick is.... go to tire centres where they
sell a lot of mag wheels... they use adhesive backing instead of clips to
attach to the wheel. I still have weights with clips but not as many. In
the mortal words of Homer Simpson...YoooHooo!!!!
They are to go int a hollow fin keel for a hartley 21. Should I fust pour
them in and cover with epoxy or should I melt the lead and poor into the
keel?

Or you could cast them into blocks to closely fit in the cavity, then fill
the gaps with smaller pellets to then be epoxy encapsulated. (I've done this
sort of thing with iron/steel, w/o the epoxy, to make a counterweight)
I've never cast lead, but would be more concerned with the risk Mike
mentions.

"sam" wrote in message
...
I scored 350 kg of lead over the weekend for free from various tires
centres. I found outwhat the trick is.... go to tire centres where they
sell a lot of mag wheels... they use adhesive backing instead of clips to
attach to the wheel. I still have weights with clips but not as many. In
the mortal words of Homer Simpson...YoooHooo!!!!
They are to go int a hollow fin keel for a hartley 21. Should I fust pour
them in and cover with epoxy or should I melt the lead and poor into the
keel?

The choice is your whether you melt the lead pellets or use epoxy. At the
end, I do not get anything out of it

I myself as a responsible sailor can only suggest a procedure that is proven
and known to be safe in shallow water, heavy seas, strong gales and ocean
sailing. Conversely, if your boat is only used inland around the buoys in
front of the yacht club or your favourite beach the safety priorities are
not the same.




wrote in message
oups.com...
Melting them to pour into the keel cavity requires great care, courage,
forethought and 'guts', and may not buy you much.

Please consider: (I assume this is an internally ballasted boat
sitting upright on stands on-the-hard) You'll need to build strong
support frame inside the hull to accommodate the (assume) propane
burner and kettle directly over the cavity (or jury rig some type of
piping to direct the flow). Lead melts at about 650 degrees. Are you
*sure* that a large mass at this temperature will not
distort/burn/melt/deform your hull material?

Yes, you'll get a higher density if you pour the lead, but epoxy
encapsulation may be *much* safer, and the ultimate performance
difference (of the lead ballast sitting 2-5% higher) will likely be
un-noticable. The stories of holed vessels loosing their lead shot
ballast as it all drained out the bottom may be true, but an epoxy
encapsulation would have absolutely prevented this apocryphal tale.

Mike Worrall
Los Angeles

Before you do any thing to your boat you should establish for how much
ballast it was designed. The other option you have is to embedded your tire
lead weights in latex based quick set waterproof Portland cement or it
equivalent.



"Garland Gray II" wrote in message
news:QHL2g.5463$8q.71@dukeread08...
Or you could cast them into blocks to closely fit in the cavity, then fill
the gaps with smaller pellets to then be epoxy encapsulated. (I've done
this sort of thing with iron/steel, w/o the epoxy, to make a
counterweight)
I've never cast lead, but would be more concerned with the risk Mike
mentions.

"sam" wrote in message
...
I scored 350 kg of lead over the weekend for free from various tires
centres. I found outwhat the trick is.... go to tire centres where they
sell a lot of mag wheels... they use adhesive backing instead of clips to
attach to the wheel. I still have weights with clips but not as many. In
the mortal words of Homer Simpson...YoooHooo!!!!
They are to go int a hollow fin keel for a hartley 21. Should I fust pour
them in and cover with epoxy or should I melt the lead and poor into the
keel?

Sam,
Is one of your proposals to melt this lead and pour it into the
fiberglass keel shell?

This would cause some problems.

Either Polyester (265F-125C) or epoxy (325F-160C) will not like having
molten lead at 650F-345C poured into it. The strength loss will be
significant at those temperatures and will be a permanent degradation.
Plus - If there is any moisture in the place the molten metal is being
poured there will be an explosive state change. (It is not an explosion
in the chemical sense oe even the same as the failure of a pressure
vessle - but it might just as well be.) Lots of molten metal goes
flying and sticking to things.

Been there -
Done that -
Didn't get the picture -
Bought the T-shirt, it's worn out.

Matt Colie

sam wrote:
I scored 350 kg of lead over the weekend for free from various tires
centres. I found outwhat the trick is.... go to tire centres where they sell
a lot of mag wheels... they use adhesive backing instead of clips to attach
to the wheel. I still have weights with clips but not as many. In the mortal
words of Homer Simpson...YoooHooo!!!!
They are to go int a hollow fin keel for a hartley 21. Should I fust pour
them in and cover with epoxy or should I melt the lead and poor into the
keel?

What is the hollow keel made of? Fiberglass (even most epoxy resin
composites) will not hold up to the heat released by that much lead. If
you can cast it, do so. Melting 350 kg of lead is not all that big a deal.
The advantage of casting is that it will be much more dense. A bucket full
of those little square lead weights will reduce in volume by more than 30%
when melted. The COG will be lower giving more stability without violating
any class rules.

A few ideas for casting ballast for a FRP keel: This will require some help
from a few friends and some lifting equipment but it will preserve the
strength of the FRP and simplify the casting process:

Figure out exactly how much weight you will need.
Divide by 11.340 to get the equivalent volume of water.
Level up the keel and pour the water in.
Mark the water line inside the keel.
Line the inside with poly sheeting and pour in some plaster of Paris up to
the waterline. (Use some scrap blocks of wood pressed into the plaster to
reduce the amount required and give something to lift the plaster out
with. )
Using the hardened plaster as a plug make a mold in Quickcrete or other
hardware store concrete mix.
Let the concrete cure for a few days then build a small charcoal fire
inside. You want to heat it well above 100C for several hours to drive out
any free moisture.
Melt about 1/3 of the lead in a 20L pot over a propane burner. Skim off the
dross.
Pour it into the mold but leave a little in the pot to make the second batch
start melting faster.
Repeat until the mold is full. (You may have to direct a propane torch over
the previously poured lead to keep the surface molten while the next batch
melts.)
Break out the mold.
Smear a thin layer of slightly thickened epoxy inside the keel.
Place the lead casting into the keel.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"sam" wrote in message
...
I scored 350 kg of lead over the weekend for free from various tires
centres. I found outwhat the trick is.... go to tire centres where they
sell a lot of mag wheels... they use adhesive backing instead of clips to
attach to the wheel. I still have weights with clips but not as many. In
the mortal words of Homer Simpson...YoooHooo!!!!
They are to go int a hollow fin keel for a hartley 21. Should I fust pour
them in and cover with epoxy or should I melt the lead and poor into the
keel?

You might be able to cast the lead in layers separated by heavy foil to
keep the weight to manageable levels. When you place it in the keel,
just restack as it came out of the mold.
Jim