Does anyone know how old birdsmouth masts are (or anything using
birdsmouth jointery, really)?

I did some looking around, and didn't find anything that listed
anything similar to historical relavance, and I am always curious about
these things and how they developed.

I've seen it described as the "Noble System" and I think it was patented in
England.

Without looking, I believe the description was in the section on masts in
"Practical Junk Rig" by H. G. Hasler and J. K. McLeod/

Roger

http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

"quixote" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone know how old birdsmouth masts are (or anything using
birdsmouth jointery, really)?

I did some looking around, and didn't find anything that listed
anything similar to historical relavance, and I am always curious about
these things and how they developed.

It would seem to me that the birdsmouth system would be impractical before
the appearance of power tools. I can't imagine the construction of a
birdsmouth mast using hand planes. I think there would have been more
practical methods.
Paul Reagan
"derbyrm" wrote in message
m...
I've seen it described as the "Noble System" and I think it was patented
in England.

Without looking, I believe the description was in the section on masts in
"Practical Junk Rig" by H. G. Hasler and J. K. McLeod/

Roger

http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

"quixote" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone know how old birdsmouth masts are (or anything using
birdsmouth jointery, really)?

I did some looking around, and didn't find anything that listed
anything similar to historical relavance, and I am always curious about
these things and how they developed.

Can you imagine cutting the planks for a 74 gun ship-of-the-line by hand?
Two sawyers per team, one on top and one in the pit, big muscles, long
hours -- better them than me. Entire forests of oak trees vanished in
England and Europe in the late 1700s and early 1800s. From
http://www.boatbuilding.net/ we have "The planks are vertically sawn in a
spiral pattern BY HAND in a saw pit. It takes 2 people over a week just to
cut the 3 planks!" (referring to restoring a Norse Faering).

The maritime museum in Amsterdam had a fascinating film describing the
armadas of ships sent to the East Indies by the Dutch (and the death toll of
sailors which often exceeded 50%).

Special planes can be made that would cut the groove quite well. The glue
would be another question though.

I found the reference, page 126: " ... invented by Barry Noble, patented by
R. Mason & Son of Bristol." Unfortunately, it doesn't give a date. It may
well have been after the introduction of steam power in factories.

Wooden Boat magazine had an article with pictures that described the process
quite well, but didn't acknowledge Barry Noble -- July/August 1999.

Roger

http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

"Paul Reagan" wrote in message
...
It would seem to me that the birdsmouth system would be impractical before
the appearance of power tools. I can't imagine the construction of a
birdsmouth mast using hand planes. I think there would have been more
practical methods.
Paul Reagan
"derbyrm" wrote in message
m...
I've seen it described as the "Noble System" and I think it was patented
in England.

Without looking, I believe the description was in the section on masts in
"Practical Junk Rig" by H. G. Hasler and J. K. McLeod/

Roger

http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

"quixote" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone know how old birdsmouth masts are (or anything using
birdsmouth jointery, really)?

I did some looking around, and didn't find anything that listed
anything similar to historical relavance, and I am always curious about
these things and how they developed.

We lost a lot when we entered the "iron age." At the USAF Museum in Dayton,
they have a biplane trainer with the covering left off so one can see the
incredible wood work. Modern pianos don't show the skills that were
routine, production line techniques that generated the hundreds of aircraft
with thousands of carefully fitted wooden pieces each (ca 1917).

The hubs for wooden wagon wheels are another example of woodworking that I
can't begin to emulate. An aunt used to burn one in the fireplace for
Christmas or Thanksgiving while I suffered. Her stash was leftovers from
the family's Newton Wagon company which made the "prairie schooners" for the
march westward in the 1800s.

Roger (I can almost make joints well enough that it will be a wooden boat
instead of an epoxy one.)

http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/Dayawl.html

"Lars Johansson" wrote in message
...
The following link describes the rigging of the replica of the eatindies
ship Götheborg:
http://www.soic.se/engelska/inenglis...680002566.html

The thir picure down and the text next to it shows and dectibes how the
masts where built. It is typical for the period. It is a little more
complicated than what the picture shows, each section has notches that
hooks
into the next one, like a puzzle. No glues are used.

/Lars J

[i can't say for certain who produced the first birds mouth masts. BUT......I watched Barry Noble making one in his dockside workshop in Bristol UK. That would have been approximately 30 years ago. Each of the eight lengths of timber were tapered first then birds mouthed on one edge, the other being left square. The pieces were then glued and clamping was simple by means of tourniquets. The resultant octagonal cylinder was then "rounded using an electric hand plane.
Barry Noble sold his small company and the buyer patented the above method of mast construction.
The masts are still being made within yards of the original site on two barges.
I have used the same method of construction for the American Black Walnut legs of a bespoke dining table. Having been turned on a lathe, the legs remain perfectly cylindrical after many yearsQUOTE=quixote;418458]Does anyone know how old birdsmouth masts are (or anything using
birdsmouth jointery, really)?

I did some looking around, and didn't find anything that listed
anything similar to historical relavance, and I am always curious about
these things and how they developed.[/quote]