Hi,

I posted here previously and received some extremely helpful advice so
I'm back for more ;-)

I just started to build Water Wheels and sell them. However, I am no
expert at using epoxy and various protective finishers & Sealers for
Wood. I use 3/4 inch Marine Plywood for my Water Wheels (with 12mm
Marine Ply used for Water buckets).

Once the Water Wheel is completed and assembled, I then...

- apply the epoxy first against the bare wood (encapsulating the
product in 2 coats of epoxy)
- wash and sand the epoxy coat to get rid of the water soluable Amine
and ensure the epoxy will bond to the primer coat
- apply 1 Marine grade primer paint
- apply 1 Marine grade color topcoat
- apply another topcost of a differnt color to the sides of the wheel
via a design template
[Optional]:- then finish it with a UV resistant varnish to avoid
sunlight epoxy degradation. (Does an epoxy with UV protection built-in
exist?)

These are some of the problems I am encountering and questions I have
so far;

1. Is there a faster/better/more efficient way of sealing and finishing
the Water Wheel than the above outlined method?

2. I cut out the Water Wheel side panels and stands using a trim flush
router bit and a steel template as a guide. However, cutting and
assembling the Water Wheel buckets is very time consuming and prone to
error on assembly. What are the design and manufacturing alternatives
available i.e. I was thinking of steam bending the Water Buckets on a
jig?

3. The Marine Plywood is difficult to work with, expensive, causes
burning sometimes whilst routing and chips easily.... would I be better
off using moisture resistant MDF? Is there a need to use Marine Ply
since I seal, undercoat and topcoat the Water Wheel? Someone suggested
trying solid cypress as it is relatively cheap and is very durable.
Would this be easy to work with (i.e. easy to route, cut, bend etc)?
Are there problems combining different types of wood in the manufacture
of this i.e. MDF and Marine Ply?

4. I'm thinking about steam bending some parts of the Water Wheel such
as the Water Wheel buckets. I heard that Marine Plywood would be more
suited to this? Can anyone clarify?

5. I seal the Water Wheel with an epoxy resin (mixed with a hardener)
using a brush and a gloss roller but this is extremely time consuming,
difficult to apply to hard to reach places and sets very fast. The
brush and roller (and any other tools used) are unusable afterwards.
What can I use to thin it out? Is it possible to spray it on? If I was
spraying it on, would I need to apply two coats?

6. I need some type of container to act both as a water reservoir and
as a base for the Water Wheel unit for standalone designs and display
designs. I was considering using a half barell type design in a
rectangular shape (window box shape). Does anyone have any thoughts on
this? I have viewed many images from other Water Wheels worldwide but
nothing really seemed to fit.


Any suggestions or ideas welcome. For reference, please see
www.irishwaterwheels.com.

Any helpful thoughts, suggestions or criticisms are welcome.

Kind regards,
Alan.

wrote:
Hi,

I posted here previously and received some extremely helpful advice so
I'm back for more ;-)

I just started to build Water Wheels and sell them. However, I am no
expert at using epoxy and various protective finishers & Sealers for
Wood. I use 3/4 inch Marine Plywood for my Water Wheels (with 12mm
Marine Ply used for Water buckets).

Once the Water Wheel is completed and assembled, I then...

- apply the epoxy first against the bare wood (encapsulating the
product in 2 coats of epoxy)
- wash and sand the epoxy coat to get rid of the water soluable Amine
and ensure the epoxy will bond to the primer coat
- apply 1 Marine grade primer paint
- apply 1 Marine grade color topcoat
- apply another topcost of a differnt color to the sides of the wheel
via a design template

[Optional]:- then finish it with a UV resistant varnish to avoid
sunlight epoxy degradation.

Superfluous...the thing is already painted and the paint blocks UV from the
epoxy.
______________

These are some of the problems I am encountering and questions I have
so far;

3. The Marine Plywood is difficult to work with, expensive, causes
burning sometimes whilst routing and chips easily.

There is no particular reason to use marine ply, you can use plain old
exterior ply. The difference (other than price) is that the exterior ply
will probably have voids in the internal plies. Since you are epoxying them
anyway, not much of a chore to mix in some Cabosil in the epoxy and fill any
voids that show.
__________________

4. I'm thinking about steam bending some parts of the Water Wheel such
as the Water Wheel buckets. I heard that Marine Plywood would be more
suited to this? Can anyone clarify?

Generally, plywood doesn't bend well because of the crossply construction.
There *are* special ones made for bending, don't know if they come in
marine/exterior grade or not.
________________

5. I seal the Water Wheel with an epoxy resin (mixed with a hardener)
using a brush and a gloss roller but this is extremely time consuming,
difficult to apply to hard to reach places and sets very fast. The
brush and roller (and any other tools used) are unusable afterwards.
What can I use to thin it out?

Lacquer thinner for thinning. Vinegar works well as a cleaner.

You might want to do the epoxying before assembly; or even cutting,
depending on waste. Much easier to apply if it can be poured onto a flat,
horizontal surface and it can be poured thick enough so all you need is one
coat. I use a foam roller cut in half length ways to smooth it out and get
uniformity. The foam edge of the roller can also be used to "tip it off" to
get rid of air bubbles but a better and faster way is by quickly passing the
flame from a torch over them so that the air in the bubble expands and
bursts the bubble. Keep in mind that epoxy is flammable.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On 2006-05-30 09:12:03 -0400, "dadiOH" said:

wrote:
Hi,

I posted here previously and received some extremely helpful advice so
I'm back for more ;-)

I just started to build Water Wheels and sell them. However, I am no
expert at using epoxy and various protective finishers & Sealers for
Wood. I use 3/4 inch Marine Plywood for my Water Wheels (with 12mm
Marine Ply used for Water buckets).

Once the Water Wheel is completed and assembled, I then...

- apply the epoxy first against the bare wood (encapsulating the
product in 2 coats of epoxy)
- wash and sand the epoxy coat to get rid of the water soluable Amine
and ensure the epoxy will bond to the primer coat
- apply 1 Marine grade primer paint
- apply 1 Marine grade color topcoat
- apply another topcost of a differnt color to the sides of the wheel
via a design template

[Optional]:- then finish it with a UV resistant varnish to avoid
sunlight epoxy degradation.

Superfluous...the thing is already painted and the paint blocks UV from the
epoxy.
______________

These are some of the problems I am encountering and questions I have
so far;

3. The Marine Plywood is difficult to work with, expensive, causes
burning sometimes whilst routing and chips easily.

There is no particular reason to use marine ply, you can use plain old
exterior ply. The difference (other than price) is that the exterior ply
will probably have voids in the internal plies. Since you are epoxying them
anyway, not much of a chore to mix in some Cabosil in the epoxy and fill any
voids that show.
__________________

4. I'm thinking about steam bending some parts of the Water Wheel such
as the Water Wheel buckets. I heard that Marine Plywood would be more
suited to this? Can anyone clarify?

Generally, plywood doesn't bend well because of the crossply construction.
There *are* special ones made for bending, don't know if they come in
marine/exterior grade or not.
________________

5. I seal the Water Wheel with an epoxy resin (mixed with a hardener)
using a brush and a gloss roller but this is extremely time consuming,
difficult to apply to hard to reach places and sets very fast. The
brush and roller (and any other tools used) are unusable afterwards.
What can I use to thin it out?

Lacquer thinner for thinning. Vinegar works well as a cleaner.

You might want to do the epoxying before assembly; or even cutting,
depending on waste. Much easier to apply if it can be poured onto a flat,
horizontal surface and it can be poured thick enough so all you need is one
coat. I use a foam roller cut in half length ways to smooth it out and get
uniformity. The foam edge of the roller can also be used to "tip it off" to
get rid of air bubbles but a better and faster way is by quickly passing the
flame from a torch over them so that the air in the bubble expands and
bursts the bubble. Keep in mind that epoxy is flammable.

The main problem with this suggestion is that you will need to go back
and re-coat the water wheel once it is assembled. The work you do in
cutting and assembling the waterwheel will destroy the epoxy coating
that is protecting the wood from moisture/water intrusion.

Somebody wrote:

I posted here previously and received some extremely helpful advice so
I'm back for more ;-)

I just started to build Water Wheels and sell them. However, I am no
expert at using epoxy and various protective finishers & Sealers for
Wood. I use 3/4 inch Marine Plywood for my Water Wheels (with 12mm
Marine Ply used for Water buckets).

Once the Water Wheel is completed and assembled, I then...

- apply the epoxy first against the bare wood (encapsulating the
product in 2 coats of epoxy)
- wash and sand the epoxy coat to get rid of the water soluable Amine
and ensure the epoxy will bond to the primer coat
- apply 1 Marine grade primer paint
- apply 1 Marine grade color topcoat
- apply another topcost of a differnt color to the sides of the wheel
via a design template


[Optional]:- then finish it with a UV resistant varnish to avoid
sunlight epoxy degradation.

As others has suggested, marine plywood is totally unnecessary.

If this were my project, I'd use cabinet grade birch ply with exterior
glue, cut and assemble all parts using any descent epoxy.

This plywood comes in 13 ply (3/4) and 9 ply (1/2), and is a pleasure
to use for fabrication, and a lot less expensive than marine ply.

Since you are using small quanties, check out West Systems if you need
a source.

Once assembled, shoot with 2 coats of high build epoxy primer.

(I shoot egg shell followed by light blue)

This is a VOC based product and is totally different than laminating
resin.

Sometimes used as a "tank resin" to line the inside of tanks.

It provides a surface that is very hard and tough.

You now have encapuslated the wood and given yourself a primed surface
ready for painting with a marine paint of choice. (I'd use L/P).

HTH

Lew