wrote:

On Fri, 28 May 2004 18:03:11 GMT, Dan Best wrote:


I didn't know that. Why is it not safe? What problems can it cause?



In some situations the wire could heat up enough to soften or even
melt the solder before tripping a breaker. This could result in the
joint coming apart, and the free ends could then contact something
else, including a human. The other problem if the solder melts is that
molten solder could drip and bridge two things that should not be
bridged, or land on something flammable. These things don't happen a
lot, but they have happend enough to be included in wiring and safety
codes. Many codes relate to things that rarely occur, but have serious
consequences when they DO occur. How often does a smoke detector have
to save your life to be worthwhile?

BB



Thanks - Dan

wrote:

On Thu, 27 May 2004 19:03:47 -0500, dazed and confuzed
wrote:



QLW wrote:


I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


Power wires should NEVER be soldered. It's against NEC and NFPA code
for good reason. It's not safe.

BB


if a connection is properly engineered, I.E., the terminal and wire are
sized correctly, the breaker is sized correctly, and the post that the
terminal is connected to is the correct size, then the solder will not
melt before the breaker trips.

--
the most committed always win

IF soldering is such a bad idea, then why are the windings (which are
made up of solid copper bars) inside an 800 megawatt generator (unit 2
Monroe MI) all soldered at the joints?
I watched them do this during a repair thirty years ago.
Matt Colie

wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:55:06 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:


Tom, you are incorrect. A solder joint under vibration can easily create a
resistive connection and it can be undetectable until it overheats. Please
review my previous advice and use a crimping tool that creats a very high
pressure crimp.
Steve



Vibration is not the only consideration, as it is illegal to solder power
connections in a building - at least in the U.S. The bottom line is that solder
is inappropriate for power wires anywhere, other than in a few very specific
applications. Unless you are manufacturing electronic devices, you are unlikely
to encounter those applications.

BB


"Tom Shilson" wrote in message
.. .

dazed and confuzed wrote:


Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


I agree. The crimp is for a solid mechanical connection. The solder
gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Personnally, I don't think the solder melting is the problem. The problem
is the heat being generated in a defective solder joint and that heat is
passed on to the connected wires. I've had to rebuild several power
supplies where the breakers/fuses never tripped/popped until after the wire
insulation melted off of the wires and the wires came in contact with each
other or ground.


Pass the crimpers please.

Mike B
USAF Retired
30 Year Electronics Tech.


"dazed and confuzed" wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Fri, 28 May 2004 18:03:11 GMT, Dan Best wrote:


I didn't know that. Why is it not safe? What problems can it cause?



In some situations the wire could heat up enough to soften or even
melt the solder before tripping a breaker. This could result in the
joint coming apart, and the free ends could then contact something
else, including a human. The other problem if the solder melts is that
molten solder could drip and bridge two things that should not be
bridged, or land on something flammable. These things don't happen a
lot, but they have happend enough to be included in wiring and safety
codes. Many codes relate to things that rarely occur, but have serious
consequences when they DO occur. How often does a smoke detector have
to save your life to be worthwhile?

BB



Thanks - Dan

wrote:

On Thu, 27 May 2004 19:03:47 -0500, dazed and confuzed
wrote:



QLW wrote:


I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to
fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


Power wires should NEVER be soldered. It's against NEC and NFPA code
for good reason. It's not safe.

BB


if a connection is properly engineered, I.E., the terminal and wire are
sized correctly, the breaker is sized correctly, and the post that the
terminal is connected to is the correct size, then the solder will not
melt before the breaker trips.

--
the most committed always win

so, you are a hill-billy idiot.

I refuse to get into useless debates based on absolutely ridicules
assertions...so I'm going to stop right here and avoid the name calling that
usually comes next. But I can give many examples that will prove the
statement below completely unfounded. I solder all of the wires on trailers
that I build (and I build a lot of them) and they are subjected to lots of
movement and vibration and never fail. Sometimes the wires will get pulled
apart but not the soldered joint. Huge numbers of soldered electronic
equipment in high vibration service routinely last a lifetime without
failure. The mechanical connection is far more likely to loosen, that's why
we have loctite and NyLocks. Anyway, my participation in this thread is
ended. It is obvious that Jax is more interested in "winning arguments"
than in meaningful posts and in reading some of his past posts, name calling
is next.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Would you mind explaining exactly how a solder connection fails "under
high
load conditions"

when the connection is soldered it lacks mechanical integrity. solder is
soft
and any chance of movement -- any, even walking on a floor near the
equipment
in a building -- loosens the connection until it eventualy fails. Even if
after soldering the connection is clamped TIGHTLY with a mechanical clamp
it
eventually fails.

If the connection is FIRST clamped TIGHTLY mechanically and _then_
soldered for
corrosion protection all if right and holy.

I didn't know that. Why is it not safe? What problems can it cause?


soldered connections loosen and fail

These things don't happen a
lot,

I have seen it.

if a connection is properly engineered, I.E., the terminal and wire are
sized correctly, the breaker is sized correctly, and the post that the
terminal is connected to is the correct size, then the solder will not
melt before the breaker trips.

it does not "melt", dude. it softens to the point that the connection fails,
THEN it melts, because the connection is barely there.

Personnally, I don't think the solder melting is the problem

maybe you don't, but the informed opinion does.

Those that have done this
and not experienced a failure are simply lucky.

and damned few in number

please don't quote me when you are quoting someone else.

JAXAshby wrote:
I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.


solder connections fail under high load conditions
mechanical stress loads or electrical loads?

--
the most committed always win