I am currently having a very difficult time getting information on boat
building and I would really appreciate any help I could get here.

Here is the situation. I am 26 and live in an apartment in Orange County
California. I am considering building a boat starting a few years from now
to live on. I plan to start several years from now to allow time to save
money and get more sailing experience. I am largely plannng to do this
because of outrageous housing costs in this area making it very difficult to
purchase a house as a first time buyer but also because I think that I would
really enjoy living on a boat. Ideally I would like to have enough money put
aside to fund most of the build but I will, obviously be putting more money
into the project as I build. I think that if I take five years to build then
this should be reasonable. I should be able to build in my Dads back yard
which has a rather large cement pad and he may be willing to let me invade
his house for a while. He doesn't live far from me so i can still work and
do all of the things I normaly do and build on weekends and at night. I plan
to do as much of the construction as I am capable of to both keep costs down
and ensure that I get a good quality boat.

I like the idea of building my own boat as I have built many things before
and I am currently working on building small sailing outrigger canoes. We
have all of the tools needed and a lot of experiencein woodworking. My dad
would be willing to help when needed as he is retired and has some free time.
Ideally I would like to come away with a nice place to live that I do not
need to make loan payments but I realize that certain equipment I may need to
get a loan for (such as radios and navigation, sails, spars....). I want
something that could potentially last the rest of my life and be sailerd all
over the world.

I am looking at Bruce Roberts designs. Does anyone have any opinion as to
them. I will be doing wood construction in either Plywood or strip composite
and the design I am currently most interested in is the Centenial Spray 38.
I have never heard of a Spray as a type of boat elsewhere so i don't really
know what makes that different from other designs. The best I can tell from
looking at it is that the cabin seems to be raised a little further aft than
the the rest of the designs giving them a little more headroom, they don't
seem to have an internal cockpit and the hull shape seems to be a lttle
different. I have no idea if I am right.

Here is what I would really like to know. Has anyone out there done this or
something similar that I can answer these questions for me.

1) How much will this cost.
2) How many man hours would it take.
3) How much of the build (in approximate percentage) must be done before I
can launch it and move onto it.
4) Is it realistically cheaper to buy an old boat then fix it up to make it
realiable and what I would want. (this would probably only be an option if
building turns out to be too expensive but would not be limited to wood boats)


Everyone seems to say that there is no real answer to these questions because
it depends on the person and the boat, but that is really not very helpful.
I understand that these things can range but if someone has done it
themselves then that would give me some sort of comparison.

Bruce Roberts designs say to buy the study plans and price out from there as
they contain complete materials lists but I would like to have some sort of
range before I spend $125. When i am ready I will definately do this and
decide more definitavely but for now i just want a general idea of what it
takes so I can think about it.

Someone please help. So far I have not been able to get any kind of answers
on these questions at all.

Le'me tell you as a voice of experience. IF you want to get on the water in
the least amount of time with the least amount of money buy a fixer upper
and finish it out the way you want.

To paraphrase the first paragraph of my web site "There is no logical reason
for someone to build a big boat from scratch except that he wants to create
a monument to himself." I just happen to like monuments. :-)

There is plenty to be creative about on the inside of a proven hull.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"scbafreak" u25927@uwe wrote in message news:6583fa26456f4@uwe...
I am currently having a very difficult time getting information on boat
building and I would really appreciate any help I could get here.

Here is the situation. I am 26 and live in an apartment in Orange County
California. I am considering building a boat starting a few years from
now
to live on. I plan to start several years from now to allow time to save
money and get more sailing experience. I am largely plannng to do this
because of outrageous housing costs in this area making it very difficult
to
purchase a house as a first time buyer but also because I think that I
would
really enjoy living on a boat. Ideally I would like to have enough money
put
aside to fund most of the build but I will, obviously be putting more
money
into the project as I build. I think that if I take five years to build
then
this should be reasonable. I should be able to build in my Dads back yard
which has a rather large cement pad and he may be willing to let me invade
his house for a while. He doesn't live far from me so i can still work
and
do all of the things I normaly do and build on weekends and at night. I
plan
to do as much of the construction as I am capable of to both keep costs
down
and ensure that I get a good quality boat.

I like the idea of building my own boat as I have built many things before
and I am currently working on building small sailing outrigger canoes. We
have all of the tools needed and a lot of experiencein woodworking. My
dad
would be willing to help when needed as he is retired and has some free
time.
Ideally I would like to come away with a nice place to live that I do not
need to make loan payments but I realize that certain equipment I may need
to
get a loan for (such as radios and navigation, sails, spars....). I
want
something that could potentially last the rest of my life and be sailerd
all
over the world.

I am looking at Bruce Roberts designs. Does anyone have any opinion as to
them. I will be doing wood construction in either Plywood or strip
composite
and the design I am currently most interested in is the Centenial Spray
38.
I have never heard of a Spray as a type of boat elsewhere so i don't
really
know what makes that different from other designs. The best I can tell
from
looking at it is that the cabin seems to be raised a little further aft
than
the the rest of the designs giving them a little more headroom, they don't
seem to have an internal cockpit and the hull shape seems to be a lttle
different. I have no idea if I am right.

Here is what I would really like to know. Has anyone out there done this
or
something similar that I can answer these questions for me.

1) How much will this cost.
2) How many man hours would it take.
3) How much of the build (in approximate percentage) must be done before I
can launch it and move onto it.
4) Is it realistically cheaper to buy an old boat then fix it up to make
it
realiable and what I would want. (this would probably only be an option
if
building turns out to be too expensive but would not be limited to wood
boats)


Everyone seems to say that there is no real answer to these questions
because
it depends on the person and the boat, but that is really not very
helpful.
I understand that these things can range but if someone has done it
themselves then that would give me some sort of comparison.

Bruce Roberts designs say to buy the study plans and price out from there
as
they contain complete materials lists but I would like to have some sort
of
range before I spend $125. When i am ready I will definately do this and
decide more definitavely but for now i just want a general idea of what
it
takes so I can think about it.

Someone please help. So far I have not been able to get any kind of
answers
on these questions at all.

Well that definately makes sense but lets say that I want a "monument" as you
call it. Then what. I mean theoretically if i build it myself and I do a
good job then I can stand on the dock and be very pleased with myself. Plus
I can say things like 'i built this thing with my own two hands from scratch
then sailed it around the world, that's why everyone has to listen to me
while on'. Not that they would but it might be nice to be able to say. I
think that buying a boat would still take some time since I would have to
save up the added cost of a completed boat before I can buy anything while in
the Homebuilt one, I could, in theory, move onto it before spars sails and
radio equipment were ever purchased. I could be massively wrong in this
assumption though as I have no idea what any of this would take. I have seen
a lot of different things but I can only opperate on the assumption that I am
very wrong in anything I currently am thinking.

But yeah monuments seem nice.

You have to identify yourself are you a boat builder, a fixer upper, a
sailor or all of these?

The first thing you have to do is to make some financial scenarios.
In making these pro formats you have to include a learning curve and add the
cost to the value analysis.
Next you have to calculate the cost of buying what you need on a piece meal
basis or all at once.
The ideal scenario is as follows: you know exactly the design you want, you
have a precise bill of material, you know the time it will take including
the learning curve to do each tasks, you are able to compute a critical path
method (CPM) and are keeping this CPM updated at all time, you do not change
the design and bill of material.
If you are building a sailboat where you have lots of money invested you
should have a builder insurance. It will be a wise thing to check the
municipal bylaws where the boat will be build.
The things to avoid is to finalized the design as you go, not using a proven
design, not knowing the time and schedule requirement and forecasted cost.
Also make sure that once the build is finish you have the facilities to
launch it.

"scbafreak" u25927@uwe wrote in message news:6583fa26456f4@uwe...
I am currently having a very difficult time getting information on boat
building and I would really appreciate any help I could get here.

Here is the situation. I am 26 and live in an apartment in Orange County
California. I am considering building a boat starting a few years from
now
to live on. I plan to start several years from now to allow time to save
money and get more sailing experience. I am largely plannng to do this
because of outrageous housing costs in this area making it very difficult
to
purchase a house as a first time buyer but also because I think that I
would
really enjoy living on a boat. Ideally I would like to have enough money
put
aside to fund most of the build but I will, obviously be putting more
money
into the project as I build. I think that if I take five years to build
then
this should be reasonable. I should be able to build in my Dads back yard
which has a rather large cement pad and he may be willing to let me invade
his house for a while. He doesn't live far from me so i can still work
and
do all of the things I normaly do and build on weekends and at night. I
plan
to do as much of the construction as I am capable of to both keep costs
down
and ensure that I get a good quality boat.

I like the idea of building my own boat as I have built many things before
and I am currently working on building small sailing outrigger canoes. We
have all of the tools needed and a lot of experiencein woodworking. My
dad
would be willing to help when needed as he is retired and has some free
time.
Ideally I would like to come away with a nice place to live that I do not
need to make loan payments but I realize that certain equipment I may need
to
get a loan for (such as radios and navigation, sails, spars....). I
want
something that could potentially last the rest of my life and be sailerd
all
over the world.

I am looking at Bruce Roberts designs. Does anyone have any opinion as to
them. I will be doing wood construction in either Plywood or strip
composite
and the design I am currently most interested in is the Centenial Spray
38.
I have never heard of a Spray as a type of boat elsewhere so i don't
really
know what makes that different from other designs. The best I can tell
from
looking at it is that the cabin seems to be raised a little further aft
than
the the rest of the designs giving them a little more headroom, they don't
seem to have an internal cockpit and the hull shape seems to be a lttle
different. I have no idea if I am right.

Here is what I would really like to know. Has anyone out there done this
or
something similar that I can answer these questions for me.

1) How much will this cost.
2) How many man hours would it take.
3) How much of the build (in approximate percentage) must be done before I
can launch it and move onto it.
4) Is it realistically cheaper to buy an old boat then fix it up to make
it
realiable and what I would want. (this would probably only be an option
if
building turns out to be too expensive but would not be limited to wood
boats)


Everyone seems to say that there is no real answer to these questions
because
it depends on the person and the boat, but that is really not very
helpful.
I understand that these things can range but if someone has done it
themselves then that would give me some sort of comparison.

Bruce Roberts designs say to buy the study plans and price out from there
as
they contain complete materials lists but I would like to have some sort
of
range before I spend $125. When i am ready I will definately do this and
decide more definitavely but for now i just want a general idea of what
it
takes so I can think about it.

Someone please help. So far I have not been able to get any kind of
answers
on these questions at all.

Thank you for the advice, these are all very good points.

Well first thing: I would say I am a fixer upper that is learning to be a
sailor and would like to be a boat builder. By the time the project would
start then I will be a Sailor and have some experience as a boat builder,
although not of this type of boat.

Next, the plans I am considering come with detailed parts and materials
liststhat I will price before starting the build to have an exact cost and
detailed plans that I can try to plan when I will do what. Realistically, I
will probably not have all of the funds in the begining of the build but I
should have about 50% of them before ever starting. The one thing I will not
know at that point is how long each task will take.

I will spend a lot of time in planning so that I do not make any really big
changes in design so i think that this will help me to stay on schedule.

Thanks again for the advice anything else you might want to contribute would
be most appreciated.

My impression is that fixer-uppers can be had at prices that are less than
the cost of reproducing the hull. If you gut 'em and start again with
interior and systems, you're ahead of the game both in money and in time.

I've justified building some of my own boats because the kind of boat that I
wanted wasn't being manufactured and i couldn't afford to pay for tha labor
costs of a custom builder.


"scbafreak" u25927@uwe wrote in message news:6583fa26456f4@uwe...
I am currently having a very difficult time getting information on boat
building and I would really appreciate any help I could get here.

Here is the situation. I am 26 and live in an apartment in Orange County
California. I am considering building a boat starting a few years from
now
to live on. I plan to start several years from now to allow time to save
money and get more sailing experience. I am largely plannng to do this
because of outrageous housing costs in this area making it very difficult
to
purchase a house as a first time buyer but also because I think that I
would
really enjoy living on a boat. Ideally I would like to have enough money
put
aside to fund most of the build but I will, obviously be putting more
money
into the project as I build. I think that if I take five years to build
then
this should be reasonable. I should be able to build in my Dads back yard
which has a rather large cement pad and he may be willing to let me invade
his house for a while. He doesn't live far from me so i can still work
and
do all of the things I normaly do and build on weekends and at night. I
plan
to do as much of the construction as I am capable of to both keep costs
down
and ensure that I get a good quality boat.

I like the idea of building my own boat as I have built many things before
and I am currently working on building small sailing outrigger canoes. We
have all of the tools needed and a lot of experiencein woodworking. My
dad
would be willing to help when needed as he is retired and has some free
time.
Ideally I would like to come away with a nice place to live that I do not
need to make loan payments but I realize that certain equipment I may need
to
get a loan for (such as radios and navigation, sails, spars....). I
want
something that could potentially last the rest of my life and be sailerd
all
over the world.

I am looking at Bruce Roberts designs. Does anyone have any opinion as to
them. I will be doing wood construction in either Plywood or strip
composite
and the design I am currently most interested in is the Centenial Spray
38.
I have never heard of a Spray as a type of boat elsewhere so i don't
really
know what makes that different from other designs. The best I can tell
from
looking at it is that the cabin seems to be raised a little further aft
than
the the rest of the designs giving them a little more headroom, they don't
seem to have an internal cockpit and the hull shape seems to be a lttle
different. I have no idea if I am right.

Here is what I would really like to know. Has anyone out there done this
or
something similar that I can answer these questions for me.

1) How much will this cost.
2) How many man hours would it take.
3) How much of the build (in approximate percentage) must be done before I
can launch it and move onto it.
4) Is it realistically cheaper to buy an old boat then fix it up to make
it
realiable and what I would want. (this would probably only be an option
if
building turns out to be too expensive but would not be limited to wood
boats)


Everyone seems to say that there is no real answer to these questions
because
it depends on the person and the boat, but that is really not very
helpful.
I understand that these things can range but if someone has done it
themselves then that would give me some sort of comparison.

Bruce Roberts designs say to buy the study plans and price out from there
as
they contain complete materials lists but I would like to have some sort
of
range before I spend $125. When i am ready I will definately do this and
decide more definitavely but for now i just want a general idea of what
it
takes so I can think about it.

Someone please help. So far I have not been able to get any kind of
answers
on these questions at all.

Another approach is to buy a kit. In order to get better pricing you have
to group your purchase of material and equipment with other
boat builders. Many localities have what they call a boat builder club and
it pays off to join. Building a boat is a good training ground for planning
and scheduling, budget control and procurement.


"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
. ..
My impression is that fixer-uppers can be had at prices that are less than
the cost of reproducing the hull. If you gut 'em and start again with
interior and systems, you're ahead of the game both in money and in time.

I've justified building some of my own boats because the kind of boat that
I
wanted wasn't being manufactured and i couldn't afford to pay for tha
labor
costs of a custom builder.


"scbafreak" u25927@uwe wrote in message news:6583fa26456f4@uwe...
I am currently having a very difficult time getting information on boat
building and I would really appreciate any help I could get here.

Here is the situation. I am 26 and live in an apartment in Orange County
California. I am considering building a boat starting a few years from
now
to live on. I plan to start several years from now to allow time to save
money and get more sailing experience. I am largely plannng to do this
because of outrageous housing costs in this area making it very difficult
to
purchase a house as a first time buyer but also because I think that I
would
really enjoy living on a boat. Ideally I would like to have enough money
put
aside to fund most of the build but I will, obviously be putting more
money
into the project as I build. I think that if I take five years to build
then
this should be reasonable. I should be able to build in my Dads back
yard
which has a rather large cement pad and he may be willing to let me
invade
his house for a while. He doesn't live far from me so i can still work
and
do all of the things I normaly do and build on weekends and at night. I
plan
to do as much of the construction as I am capable of to both keep costs
down
and ensure that I get a good quality boat.

I like the idea of building my own boat as I have built many things
before
and I am currently working on building small sailing outrigger canoes.
We
have all of the tools needed and a lot of experiencein woodworking. My
dad
would be willing to help when needed as he is retired and has some free
time.
Ideally I would like to come away with a nice place to live that I do not
need to make loan payments but I realize that certain equipment I may
need
to
get a loan for (such as radios and navigation, sails, spars....). I
want
something that could potentially last the rest of my life and be sailerd
all
over the world.

I am looking at Bruce Roberts designs. Does anyone have any opinion as
to
them. I will be doing wood construction in either Plywood or strip
composite
and the design I am currently most interested in is the Centenial Spray
38.
I have never heard of a Spray as a type of boat elsewhere so i don't
really
know what makes that different from other designs. The best I can tell
from
looking at it is that the cabin seems to be raised a little further aft
than
the the rest of the designs giving them a little more headroom, they
don't
seem to have an internal cockpit and the hull shape seems to be a lttle
different. I have no idea if I am right.

Here is what I would really like to know. Has anyone out there done this
or
something similar that I can answer these questions for me.

1) How much will this cost.
2) How many man hours would it take.
3) How much of the build (in approximate percentage) must be done before
I
can launch it and move onto it.
4) Is it realistically cheaper to buy an old boat then fix it up to make
it
realiable and what I would want. (this would probably only be an option
if
building turns out to be too expensive but would not be limited to wood
boats)


Everyone seems to say that there is no real answer to these questions
because
it depends on the person and the boat, but that is really not very
helpful.
I understand that these things can range but if someone has done it
themselves then that would give me some sort of comparison.

Bruce Roberts designs say to buy the study plans and price out from there
as
they contain complete materials lists but I would like to have some sort
of
range before I spend $125. When i am ready I will definately do this and
decide more definitavely but for now i just want a general idea of what
it
takes so I can think about it.

Someone please help. So far I have not been able to get any kind of
answers
on these questions at all.

scbafreak wrote: The one thing I will not
know at that point is how long each task will take.

You will have to be the best judge of how long it will take YOU to do
each task. Do you have the right tools, the experience, the abillity
to stay on task, the schedule to allow for long periods of work vs.
short broken periods, lots of friends to help? These are all questions
that you have to consider. Then once you've arrived at your best
estimate double it, then add 50% more for safety factor, then you may
have a reasonable estimate if you work hard and don't take any time
off.

Here's the answer to your questions though- you either have to built a
boat, in which case the rest of it doesn't matter and you will do what
it takes to build it, or you don't have to and you will get mired down
in worries about how much it's costing you, how little time you have
left for a social life, how hard it is, how your dad wants his cement
pad back, how your friends are all making gobs of money while you're
sitting there trying to figure out why the heck you put the decking on
before you fitted the bunks and cabinetry, etc., etc.

scbafreak wrote:
I am currently having a very difficult time getting information on
boat building and I would really appreciate any help I could get
here.

Here is the situation. I am 26 and live in an apartment in Orange
County California. I am considering building a boat starting a few
years from now to live on. I plan to start several years from now
to allow time to save money and get more sailing experience. I am
largely plannng to do this because of outrageous housing costs

Have you checked mooring fees? Taxes?
____________

Here is what I would really like to know. Has anyone out there
done this or something similar that I can answer these questions
for me.

1) How much will this cost.

Not hard to figure but you have to have a material list. Then add in
spars, sails, running & standing rigging, electronics, engine etc.
_______________

2) How many man hours would it take.

You have a job and intend to do this evenings and weekends? Then
think man years, not hours. I have a friend that finished a strip
built Tahiti ketch recently. IIRC, he worked on it for close to two
decades.

BTW, I'm not a big "strip" fan but I sure like it better than plywood.
__________________

3) How much of the build (in approximate percentage) must be done
before I can launch it and move onto it.

IIRC, a bare hull - no accommodation - represents about 15% of the
cost/work.
____________________

4) Is it realistically cheaper to buy an old boat then fix it up to
make it realiable and what I would want. (this would probably
only be an option if building turns out to be too expensive but
would not be limited to wood boats)

That depends totally on the condition of the old boat. In some cases
it could work but in others you'd be spending more in both money and
time than if building from the keel up. Generally - especially given
your experience - I'd advise against it.
___________________

Everyone seems to say that there is no real answer to these
questions because it depends on the person and the boat, but that
is really not very helpful.
I understand that these things can range but if someone has done it
themselves then that would give me some sort of comparison.

"Everyone" is right. My guesstimate - a wild one - would be $150,000
to $250,000. Here is a site that discusses both time and $$ but it is
for multi-hull boats. Given the number of owner built ply cats that
used to be around I'd think a mono hull would require more of both $$
& time.
http://www.f-boat.com/pages/costs.html

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In one sense, you're 25 years too late. In the 70's - early 80's,
Costa Mesa / Newport Beach was a bee hive of 'plastic classic' boat
building activity. One could buy 'bare hull' kits of some very
legitimate, sea-worthy designs from area factories and finish off the
project at home, returning to the factory for parts and / or advice as
needed. A book that documents one person's project (a Westsail 32) -
and a fine book to have for any boat-builders shelf - is 'From a Bare
Hull' by Ferenc Mate. There are still a couple of world-class sail boat
builders in Orange County - Pacific Seacraft and Samuel L. Morse.
Perhaps they offer pre-arranged tours (if, for nothing else, so you can
see what an enormous ammount of work building a 38' boat is... ).

Mike Worrall
Los Angeles