We bought our first small boat for lake fishing a week ago. It is a
used 14' jon boat circa 1981 (according to the license). It had on it
a 40 HP MERCURY engine with serial number 5991890. (With electric
start).

OK - here is the part where you can call us stupid. My first guess
(we didn't ask but should of - excitement of buying a boat that we
could use with out boys - ages 12 and 7 - you know) was that it was a 2
cycle. My wife insisted she saw on the sign that it was a 4-cycle. Of
course, had I bothered to look for a oil reservoir, I guess I would
have had my answer. However, not wanting to doubt my wife (long story
there) I took it on faith that it was a 4 cycle and we put premium gas
into the fuel tank with no oil added.

We took it out on a lake, and it started easily, but then ran rougher
and rougher until it would no longer start (for awhile it would work in
the idle mode, but the engine would cycle up in speed and then back
down, and then eventually die out each time). We played with it for
about 30 min then gave up. We brought it in by trolling motor and got
it back home.

Figured out at that point it was a two-cycle, so I added the
pre-requisite 50:1 ratio of two cycle engine oil (by the way, I just
used generic two-cycle engine oil, is there any difference between that
and marine two cycle oil?).

I also changed the spark plugs and the little in-line fuel filter.
The top spark plug was charred.

We got it to another lake the next day. Put it in the water and
attempted to start the motor. It cranked fine but never turned over
and started.... almost like it is not getting any gas, but maybe it's
not just getting a spark - because maybe one of the spark plug wires is
bad? The latter supposition is doubtful because it did run on Sat, but
not on Sunday - although maybe I broke a wire when I replaced the plugs
I'll take an Ohm meter to them this weekend to make sure they are
good, and try cleaning them up a bit to make sure they are making goog
contact. I also plan on taking the spark plugs back out to see if
there is anything else I can do to clean out the regions they plug in
to. Does it still sound like I have a fuel problem?

I'd appreciate any helpful suggestions.

On 4 Oct 2006 17:28:30 -0700, "kmatus" wrote:

We bought our first small boat for lake fishing a week ago. It is a
used 14' jon boat circa 1981 (according to the license). It had on it
a 40 HP MERCURY engine with serial number 5991890.
/// I took it on faith that it was a 4 cycle and we put premium gas
into the fuel tank with no oil added.
///
Figured out at that point it was a two-cycle, so I added the
pre-requisite 50:1 ratio of two cycle engine oil (by the way, I just
used generic two-cycle engine oil, is there any difference between that
and marine two cycle oil?).

I also changed the spark plugs and the little in-line fuel filter.
The top spark plug was charred.
/// Does it still sound like I have a fuel problem?

I'd appreciate any helpful suggestions.

Go buy a compression gage, and an inline spark tester.

See if you can get more than 80 psi out of the cylinders,
and a decent blue spark at each plug.

If yes to both, you have a fuel problem

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Running a 2 cycle engine without lubrication from 2 cycle oil will not screw
up the fuel system. Chances are you didn't hurt the propeller or the anchor
either, but you've probably destroyed the head.
MMC
"kmatus" wrote in message
ups.com...
We bought our first small boat for lake fishing a week ago. It is a
used 14' jon boat circa 1981 (according to the license). It had on it
a 40 HP MERCURY engine with serial number 5991890. (With electric
start).

OK - here is the part where you can call us stupid. My first guess
(we didn't ask but should of - excitement of buying a boat that we
could use with out boys - ages 12 and 7 - you know) was that it was a 2
cycle. My wife insisted she saw on the sign that it was a 4-cycle. Of
course, had I bothered to look for a oil reservoir, I guess I would
have had my answer. However, not wanting to doubt my wife (long story
there) I took it on faith that it was a 4 cycle and we put premium gas
into the fuel tank with no oil added.

We took it out on a lake, and it started easily, but then ran rougher
and rougher until it would no longer start (for awhile it would work in
the idle mode, but the engine would cycle up in speed and then back
down, and then eventually die out each time). We played with it for
about 30 min then gave up. We brought it in by trolling motor and got
it back home.

Figured out at that point it was a two-cycle, so I added the
pre-requisite 50:1 ratio of two cycle engine oil (by the way, I just
used generic two-cycle engine oil, is there any difference between that
and marine two cycle oil?).

I also changed the spark plugs and the little in-line fuel filter.
The top spark plug was charred.

We got it to another lake the next day. Put it in the water and
attempted to start the motor. It cranked fine but never turned over
and started.... almost like it is not getting any gas, but maybe it's
not just getting a spark - because maybe one of the spark plug wires is
bad? The latter supposition is doubtful because it did run on Sat, but
not on Sunday - although maybe I broke a wire when I replaced the plugs
I'll take an Ohm meter to them this weekend to make sure they are
good, and try cleaning them up a bit to make sure they are making goog
contact. I also plan on taking the spark plugs back out to see if
there is anything else I can do to clean out the regions they plug in
to. Does it still sound like I have a fuel problem?

I'd appreciate any helpful suggestions.

Thanks to all who offered advice. I was able to take off the top
cowel and see that the flywheel turned but was not in free spin. I
pulled the spark plugs out and could see the pistons moving as I turned
the flywheel. This gave me hope.

So - I funneled maybe an 1/2 to 1 ounce of engine oil in thru the spark
plug holes and turned the flywheel by hand, multiple times back and
forth. Things seemed to be working pretty well, and the pistons moved
even more smoothly.

Next I had my son turn the ignition key on for about 5 secs. This
allowed me to observe that everything seemed to be working with the
pistons going in and out (I left the spark plugs out at that point, and
while I got shot with a little oil it really seemd to lubricate things
and allowed me to verify the operation). I had my son do this a
couple of times.

I replaced the spark plugs and wires. I moved the boat and engine to
the driveway and put a plastic garbage can under the motor so that the
propeller and intake were in in and then filled the can with water. I
and then tried to start things up. Still no deal, although everything
"looked" like it was behaving correctly.

There were some frayed hanging wires which I hadn't done anything about
yet - not knowing what they were. They appeared to be snapped and
were near the starter motor. I wondered (hoped) if someone had left
these in a bad place and while I (as an inexperienced owner of a boat)
somehow got them too near the starter motor when I was taking on and
off the side wrap. Anyway, I figured at this point I had nothing to
lose, so I ran a jumper wire with alligator clips between each of the
frayed ends to connect them. Nest, I turned the ignition key again,
and presto, magico, the engine started and idled very smoothly and
quietly. My guess is that these wires gave power to the fuel pump.

So, I soldered a new piece of wire between the broken ends of the two
wires, which gave me a little more slack and allowed me to run the
wires in a safer place away from the starter motor. I snapped back on
all the engine covers, and gave it another go. All worked great! I
even briefly put the motor in gear and the propeller churned up the
water in the garbage can while running very smoothly. HOORAY!

We were vary lucky and I am so glad that we gave up quickly on the day
we tried the motor with the pure gas.

Thanks again!


kmatus wrote:
We bought our first small boat for lake fishing a week ago. It is a
used 14' jon boat circa 1981 (according to the license). It had on it
a 40 HP MERCURY engine with serial number 5991890. (With electric
start).

OK - here is the part where you can call us stupid. My first guess
(we didn't ask but should of - excitement of buying a boat that we
could use with out boys - ages 12 and 7 - you know) was that it was a 2
cycle. My wife insisted she saw on the sign that it was a 4-cycle. Of
course, had I bothered to look for a oil reservoir, I guess I would
have had my answer. However, not wanting to doubt my wife (long story
there) I took it on faith that it was a 4 cycle and we put premium gas
into the fuel tank with no oil added.

We took it out on a lake, and it started easily, but then ran rougher
and rougher until it would no longer start (for awhile it would work in
the idle mode, but the engine would cycle up in speed and then back
down, and then eventually die out each time). We played with it for
about 30 min then gave up. We brought it in by trolling motor and got
it back home.

Figured out at that point it was a two-cycle, so I added the
pre-requisite 50:1 ratio of two cycle engine oil (by the way, I just
used generic two-cycle engine oil, is there any difference between that
and marine two cycle oil?).

I also changed the spark plugs and the little in-line fuel filter.
The top spark plug was charred.

We got it to another lake the next day. Put it in the water and
attempted to start the motor. It cranked fine but never turned over
and started.... almost like it is not getting any gas, but maybe it's
not just getting a spark - because maybe one of the spark plug wires is
bad? The latter supposition is doubtful because it did run on Sat, but
not on Sunday - although maybe I broke a wire when I replaced the plugs
I'll take an Ohm meter to them this weekend to make sure they are
good, and try cleaning them up a bit to make sure they are making goog
contact. I also plan on taking the spark plugs back out to see if
there is anything else I can do to clean out the regions they plug in
to. Does it still sound like I have a fuel problem?

I'd appreciate any helpful suggestions.

Wow! That's luck! Buy a lottery ticket quick!
"kmatus" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks to all who offered advice. I was able to take off the top
cowel and see that the flywheel turned but was not in free spin. I
pulled the spark plugs out and could see the pistons moving as I turned
the flywheel. This gave me hope.

So - I funneled maybe an 1/2 to 1 ounce of engine oil in thru the spark
plug holes and turned the flywheel by hand, multiple times back and
forth. Things seemed to be working pretty well, and the pistons moved
even more smoothly.

Next I had my son turn the ignition key on for about 5 secs. This
allowed me to observe that everything seemed to be working with the
pistons going in and out (I left the spark plugs out at that point, and
while I got shot with a little oil it really seemd to lubricate things
and allowed me to verify the operation). I had my son do this a
couple of times.

I replaced the spark plugs and wires. I moved the boat and engine to
the driveway and put a plastic garbage can under the motor so that the
propeller and intake were in in and then filled the can with water. I
and then tried to start things up. Still no deal, although everything
"looked" like it was behaving correctly.

There were some frayed hanging wires which I hadn't done anything about
yet - not knowing what they were. They appeared to be snapped and
were near the starter motor. I wondered (hoped) if someone had left
these in a bad place and while I (as an inexperienced owner of a boat)
somehow got them too near the starter motor when I was taking on and
off the side wrap. Anyway, I figured at this point I had nothing to
lose, so I ran a jumper wire with alligator clips between each of the
frayed ends to connect them. Nest, I turned the ignition key again,
and presto, magico, the engine started and idled very smoothly and
quietly. My guess is that these wires gave power to the fuel pump.

So, I soldered a new piece of wire between the broken ends of the two
wires, which gave me a little more slack and allowed me to run the
wires in a safer place away from the starter motor. I snapped back on
all the engine covers, and gave it another go. All worked great! I
even briefly put the motor in gear and the propeller churned up the
water in the garbage can while running very smoothly. HOORAY!

We were vary lucky and I am so glad that we gave up quickly on the day
we tried the motor with the pure gas.

Thanks again!


kmatus wrote:
We bought our first small boat for lake fishing a week ago. It is a
used 14' jon boat circa 1981 (according to the license). It had on it
a 40 HP MERCURY engine with serial number 5991890. (With electric
start).

OK - here is the part where you can call us stupid. My first guess
(we didn't ask but should of - excitement of buying a boat that we
could use with out boys - ages 12 and 7 - you know) was that it was a 2
cycle. My wife insisted she saw on the sign that it was a 4-cycle. Of
course, had I bothered to look for a oil reservoir, I guess I would
have had my answer. However, not wanting to doubt my wife (long story
there) I took it on faith that it was a 4 cycle and we put premium gas
into the fuel tank with no oil added.

We took it out on a lake, and it started easily, but then ran rougher
and rougher until it would no longer start (for awhile it would work in
the idle mode, but the engine would cycle up in speed and then back
down, and then eventually die out each time). We played with it for
about 30 min then gave up. We brought it in by trolling motor and got
it back home.

Figured out at that point it was a two-cycle, so I added the
pre-requisite 50:1 ratio of two cycle engine oil (by the way, I just
used generic two-cycle engine oil, is there any difference between that
and marine two cycle oil?).

I also changed the spark plugs and the little in-line fuel filter.
The top spark plug was charred.

We got it to another lake the next day. Put it in the water and
attempted to start the motor. It cranked fine but never turned over
and started.... almost like it is not getting any gas, but maybe it's
not just getting a spark - because maybe one of the spark plug wires is
bad? The latter supposition is doubtful because it did run on Sat, but
not on Sunday - although maybe I broke a wire when I replaced the plugs
I'll take an Ohm meter to them this weekend to make sure they are
good, and try cleaning them up a bit to make sure they are making goog
contact. I also plan on taking the spark plugs back out to see if
there is anything else I can do to clean out the regions they plug in
to. Does it still sound like I have a fuel problem?

I'd appreciate any helpful suggestions.

"MMC" wrote in message
...
Wow! That's luck! Buy a lottery ticket quick!

No kidding. I wonder about the whole bit about an electric fuel pump though
on a 40 horse outboard. More than likely it was an igntion system wire.

Keep your batteries charged.

--
Bob La Londe
Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River
Fishing Forums & Contests
http://www.YumaBassMan.com



"kmatus" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks to all who offered advice. I was able to take off the top
cowel and see that the flywheel turned but was not in free spin. I
pulled the spark plugs out and could see the pistons moving as I turned
the flywheel. This gave me hope.

So - I funneled maybe an 1/2 to 1 ounce of engine oil in thru the spark
plug holes and turned the flywheel by hand, multiple times back and
forth. Things seemed to be working pretty well, and the pistons moved
even more smoothly.

Next I had my son turn the ignition key on for about 5 secs. This
allowed me to observe that everything seemed to be working with the
pistons going in and out (I left the spark plugs out at that point, and
while I got shot with a little oil it really seemd to lubricate things
and allowed me to verify the operation). I had my son do this a
couple of times.

I replaced the spark plugs and wires. I moved the boat and engine to
the driveway and put a plastic garbage can under the motor so that the
propeller and intake were in in and then filled the can with water. I
and then tried to start things up. Still no deal, although everything
"looked" like it was behaving correctly.

There were some frayed hanging wires which I hadn't done anything about
yet - not knowing what they were. They appeared to be snapped and
were near the starter motor. I wondered (hoped) if someone had left
these in a bad place and while I (as an inexperienced owner of a boat)
somehow got them too near the starter motor when I was taking on and
off the side wrap. Anyway, I figured at this point I had nothing to
lose, so I ran a jumper wire with alligator clips between each of the
frayed ends to connect them. Nest, I turned the ignition key again,
and presto, magico, the engine started and idled very smoothly and
quietly. My guess is that these wires gave power to the fuel pump.

So, I soldered a new piece of wire between the broken ends of the two
wires, which gave me a little more slack and allowed me to run the
wires in a safer place away from the starter motor. I snapped back on
all the engine covers, and gave it another go. All worked great! I
even briefly put the motor in gear and the propeller churned up the
water in the garbage can while running very smoothly. HOORAY!

We were vary lucky and I am so glad that we gave up quickly on the day
we tried the motor with the pure gas.

Thanks again!


kmatus wrote:
We bought our first small boat for lake fishing a week ago. It is a
used 14' jon boat circa 1981 (according to the license). It had on it
a 40 HP MERCURY engine with serial number 5991890. (With electric
start).

OK - here is the part where you can call us stupid. My first guess
(we didn't ask but should of - excitement of buying a boat that we
could use with out boys - ages 12 and 7 - you know) was that it was a 2
cycle. My wife insisted she saw on the sign that it was a 4-cycle. Of
course, had I bothered to look for a oil reservoir, I guess I would
have had my answer. However, not wanting to doubt my wife (long story
there) I took it on faith that it was a 4 cycle and we put premium gas
into the fuel tank with no oil added.

We took it out on a lake, and it started easily, but then ran rougher
and rougher until it would no longer start (for awhile it would work in
the idle mode, but the engine would cycle up in speed and then back
down, and then eventually die out each time). We played with it for
about 30 min then gave up. We brought it in by trolling motor and got
it back home.

Figured out at that point it was a two-cycle, so I added the
pre-requisite 50:1 ratio of two cycle engine oil (by the way, I just
used generic two-cycle engine oil, is there any difference between that
and marine two cycle oil?).

I also changed the spark plugs and the little in-line fuel filter.
The top spark plug was charred.

We got it to another lake the next day. Put it in the water and
attempted to start the motor. It cranked fine but never turned over
and started.... almost like it is not getting any gas, but maybe it's
not just getting a spark - because maybe one of the spark plug wires is
bad? The latter supposition is doubtful because it did run on Sat, but
not on Sunday - although maybe I broke a wire when I replaced the plugs
I'll take an Ohm meter to them this weekend to make sure they are
good, and try cleaning them up a bit to make sure they are making goog
contact. I also plan on taking the spark plugs back out to see if
there is anything else I can do to clean out the regions they plug in
to. Does it still sound like I have a fuel problem?

I'd appreciate any helpful suggestions.






--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 23:54:52 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


No kidding. I wonder about the whole bit about an electric fuel pump though
on a 40 horse outboard. More than likely it was an igntion system wire.

Keep your batteries charged.

--
Bob La Londe

What Bob said.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK