scbafreak via BoatKB.com wrote:

I have two options. Option one is two go with the 42' boat with a build time
of 10,000 to 12,000 hours rather than the 49' with a build time of 14,000 to
18,000 hours. Option two is to build as much as is needed for it to be

I'm going to go on for a bit. Please excuse the ramble.

1) The average person in the US, if they work full time @ 40
hrs/week, less some stat holidays, etc. is working 2000 hours a year.
So if you work on the 49' boat full time, 5 days a week, #2 will
take at least 9 years of solid labour. That's way too long. Both are
too long IMO. First time builders usually hit or exceed the longer
range of construction time estimates by the way.

2) Don't move into a project that is underway. Your productivity
will go way down when you have to unstick the cereal box from the
freshly varnished cabinetry.

4) Buy a boat instead. It's far more rational.

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/static...chooner_1.html
Here's a bunch. Some maybe in your price range.


5) I'm currently on a rebuilding project of a 40' catamaran. Much
smaller project than building a whole boat, though still significant.

I probably only have 700 hours (bit of a WAG) into it so far, because
I have a family and a young daughter who I want to spend time with
just as much as I want to build the boat. Timelime so far:

Winter/Spring 2005 - prefabricating composite cabin panels.

Summer 2005 - haulout for 1 month. Chainsaw out old middle
bridgedeck. De-step mast, new carbon fiber mast beam, install new
diesel, new bridgedeck cabin sole, cockpit sole. Cabin panels
screwed/some glassed into position. Mast restepped and back in the
water. Lots of help from friends that month

Summer 2005 - taping external seams/fairing

Fall 2005 - taping internal seams/fairing/painting inside cabin

Winter 2005/6 - fabricate bridgedeck cabin furniture

Spring 2006 - carbon fiber chainplates, install windows & hatches

Summer 2006 - fairing, fairing, more fairing

Fall 2006 - starting to paint exterior

Winter 2006/7 - new galley cabinets, install stove, sinks, cabinetry
[do you call it cabinetry if it's made of carbon fiber/Nomex?]
- redo electrical system

Spring 2007 - install deck hardware, finish painting, finish building
dinghy

Summer 2007 - go sailing for a change

Fall 2007 - install some systems (hot water heater, cabin heater,
pressure water, watermaker)

Winter 2007/8 - fabricate and install carbon fiber radar arch/dinghy
davits/solar panel stuff

Spring 2008 - buy the electronics, install, more lockers in cabins
etc. etc. etc.

Summer 2008 - just leave 'cause it will never be finished anyway


You may begin to get the idea of how long this sort of project will
take if you are not working on it full time. Progress can be measured
in decades and there are many busted dreams along the way.

I'm a naval architect/marine engineer so designing the cabin structure
and dealing with mechanical systems is simple to me. It's also not my
first boat. We have a clear vision of the steps needed, the timeline
and budget required, and the goal (leaving for offshore cruising
summer 2008). Good luck with your dream.

My boatbuilding blog: www.maiaaboard.blogspot.com

Evan Gatehouse

If you like the idea of building in steel, Thomas Colvin has some nice
designs. I just finished reading his two-part book, "Steel
Boatbuilding", and while I've never worked with steel outside of
welding class, his instructions seem clear and straightforward. The
books use a "pinky schooner" design as an example. I'm no schooner
expert, but it's a handsome 42-footer, to my eye. His website is:
http://www.thomasecolvin.com/

He's run his own yard and build his own designs, so that's some
guarantee that he thought of the builder when he drew it.

Best of luck on your project.

-Maxime Camirand

snip
P.S. If anyone out there has any recommendations about a designer that
designs "classic" style boats, let me know. While fast is nice it isn't the
most important thing to me. I plan to live on this boat and I would like to
come home every day and be in awe of my own boat moreso than any other boat
in the marina. I guess I have a sentimental heart after all.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com

scbafreak via BoatKB.com wrote:
Not many designers draw these styles of boats. Most are sleek and pointed
and not my style. I really like the old "Pirate Ship" style and I want it to
be as much along the style of old sailing ships as possible while still being
safe and capable.

You have to ask yourself why the best designers are not making piratey
boats. The boats that you like are not very seaworthy, need a large
crew, probably can't survive being rolled by a wave, are very heavy and
very slow.

The pointy boats that you seem dislike are easy to drive with a small
crew, are very efficient, go faster, use less fuel when motoring, and
are way, way easier and cheaper to build.

As somebody who is building a steel boat I have the following
recomendations. Don't dismiss them too quickly, they come from
experience:

1) Buy a small boat to develop your skills as a sailor, to know how
things work, and how much you can take it out there. A 20+ footer would
do. More than a few would-be sailors spent fortunes and precious time
before realizing that they (or their spouses) hate life inclined at 20
degrees or that they get seasick easily.

2) Try to get one of those pointy boats designs that offer the
possibility of buying already cut plates. Cutting plate is boring,
unhealthy, expensive and time-consuming. If I had to start again I'll
buy the already cut kit and, probably, I'd have saved money. The gunk
left by a plasma cutter would make a lead mine worker choke. The other
methods are dirtier.

3) The least important consideration of a boat is looks. You can make a
boat that sails well and has robustness look prettier. But you can't
make a pretty hunk of steel sail well in heavy seas if it does'nt do it
already.

4) Count that it would take at least 3 times longer to build it that
your most pesimistic estimate. And it would cost at least 50% more than
you expected.

5) The best boat in the world is worthless if you are too old to sail
it. Do something that would put you in the water soon. I remember
reading about a guy that spent 30 years building a ferrocement boat.
When he finished he was in his 80's, way too old to enjoy iy.

Good luck, and don't be stubborn: the best sailors are flexible types.

dprou wrote:
Good luck, and don't be stubborn: the best sailors are flexible types.


Now *there* is some darn good advice.

DSK

As someone who takes pretty good care of his health and also works with
steel every day as my full time occupation i have to take a bit of exception
to this....

Cutting can be a health hazard, but it doesnt have to be. With adequate
ventilation, it can actually be a pleasant experience, if you've got a mind
for it ;-)

Cutting is a skill just like any other though, and one that takes time to
learn. If you have a lot of cutting to do, take the time to learn how to do
it properly. Plasma is still pretty pricey, and ive seen a lot of variation
in the quality of plasma machines. I still wouldnt consider using a single
phase machine just yet, and the consumables sure do cost! cheap plasma
machines give pretty poor results regardless of price, and once you arc out
the tip of them they are abysmal. you will arc the tip out a lot unless you
have a set of wheels to keep it off the surface of the material. plasma is
nice though in that it will cut a broad range of materials.

Oxy cutting is still the way to go i think, and i generally choose oxy
cuttiong over other methods unless i have to cut aluminum or thin
sheetmetal, in which case plasma is by far faster and neater.

Oxy cutting can be fast and clean, but there's a fine line to adjusting the
torch correctly.... I still dont get it perfect all the time. You can use
LPG/oxygen for cutting if you want to save money. When you mark out the
plate, use a centre punch to mark the chalk line, so after you cut it and
the chalk line is gone you'll be able to see if you hit your mark, and if
not, y how much. Start with a good clean tip, adjust it correctly and move
at the right speed and you can cut through 1" 1/2 plate cleanly with no mess
to be grinded.

the biggest fear of cutting your own plate is making a mistake when you mark
it out. That can *really* cost you some big money. If you can use CAD you
can get your plate cut at any plasma/profile cutting/laser shop for not a
lot of $. If you have other things to be cut as well then this can be worth
your time... laser can cut timber and plastics as well as stainless and
pretty much anything, so you could have most of your boat cut out in a
single run and save a bit of money on materials if you take your time and
work out what you can fit on a sheet. Id probably go that route if i was
going to get my timber and windows all done...

If it was just steel, i'd just it myself. you can cut a *lot* of steel in a
week

On top of this, the oxy needs no power, can be carried with you just about
anywhere, can be used to braze/solder and fusion weld, is useful for freeing
seized nuts/bolts and good for bending. can also be used to heat up a cup
of coffee in a pinch ;-)

Shaun

2) Try to get one of those pointy boats designs that offer the
possibility of buying already cut plates. Cutting plate is boring,
unhealthy, expensive and time-consuming. If I had to start again I'll
buy the already cut kit and, probably, I'd have saved money. The gunk
left by a plasma cutter would make a lead mine worker choke. The other
methods are dirtier.

Hi All,
I just had to jump into this discussion. In 1982?? I purchased the plans for the 44-40 and immediately started construction. I was working solely on my own and anticipated having to relocate from one Asian location to another so I started building components that could be readily moved. I built the dinghy first just to get a handle on what tools I would need and to practice the layup of the cold molded construction. I finished all of the interior components and started building ribs. I finished 1/3 of the ribs and bulkheads and then was transferred. Rather than moving everything I stored everything with the knowledge I would be returning in a year or so. Unfortunately my storage went underwater from a prolonged flood! When I reviewed the damage it was clear that little was salvageable.
I can attest that the plans are extremely detailed and refute the idea that this can't be built by a "homebuilder". I am saddened by my loss but just don't have enough years left to start over.
I have the complete drawings and detailed manual for anyone interested in building a truly beautiful boat. Drop me a line.



On Saturday, 4 November 2006 06:42:25 UTC+7, scbafreak via BoatKB.com wrote:
I am considering building a boat and in my obsession I have been looking at
designs. Here is the deal. I have been looking at the Bruce Roberts
Centennial Spray 45 or 50 and the Bombigher 38-40 or 44-40. I like the look
of the Bombigher immensley. I saw the design and loved it, I saw photos of
completed boats and love them as well. This is not to say that I don't like
the BR C-Spray. It is a beautiful boat but not exactly what I want. Close,
but not all the way the way there.

Here is the down side. I don't know if I can get any support from Bombigher,
considering that he is no longer among the living, and BR states very clearly
that you get as much support as you think you need. Bombigher has stated
that all of there designs have very extensive instructions and this fact may
make it so i wont really need support I can't get elsewhere. Also, as much
as I like the look of the designs, I don't know enough about these boats to
tell what would make a better sailboat. I plan to be a live-aboard and
eventually do extensive blue water cruising. This is all stuff I need to
learn more about over the years of planning and building but while
considering future plans in building, I am curious as to the opinions of
others about these designs.

Not many designers draw these styles of boats. Most are sleek and pointed
and not my style. I really like the old "Pirate Ship" style and I want it to
be as much along the style of old sailing ships as possible while still being
safe and capable.

I would consider another designer if they are superior in safety and support
for the builder as long as there designs are along the sort I am looking at.

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