All this is nice and well (some obvious nonsense aside), but what
would be the point of cruising in a submarine? Someone who finds this
appealing would be just as happy in his basement at home with a TV and
a few discovery channel under water video tapes.


On Jul 1, 11:01 pm, wellmer wrote:
On May 27, 11:06 pm, wellmer wrote:

submarine yachts based on concrete hulls are possible, available and
affordable, building cost, maintainance cost, is lower than a similar
sized surface yacht. Check out my prototype of a 20 ton yacht
submarine i developed, built, dived, tested, back in the 90ties, at:
(http://concretesubmarine.com)
Let me hear your opinion, comments, input...looking for a network to
take this a step further...
Cheers Wil

Why submarine yachting makes sense

* save harbor beneath the waves
* no hurricane season wandering
* marina and harbor free operation
* closed burglar and pirate safe
* quiet living space at sea
* drift dive operation
* economic cruising
* small engine
* enormous range
* lower slip and maintainance cost
* lower hull building and engine cost

save harbor beneath the waves

A surface yacht, needs to be designed to have the means to withstand
adverse weather conditions or to reach a safe harbor before such
conditions come up.

For a submarine yacht a save harbor is always near - just a few meters
below. This has a mayor impact in the way how you operate a submarine
yacht vs a surface yacht and in its cost o operation. First of all
your tour plan is not limited by weather forecast and by harbors
available along your route.

no hurricane season wandering

A submarine yacht as suggested at (www.concretesubmarine.com) exposes
almost no surface of its hull to weather except a small sail (tower).
So you can get the nose into the wind with a very small engine under
any condition. On anchor place this means that the bow area is not
lifted in any wave as it is the case in a surface ship which tends to
bring tremendous forces to the anchor rig, which is the cause of
anchor break out in severe conditions. A submarine yacht as my tested
prototype brings very little force to the anchor rig - even in storm
conditions.

For surface yacht you need to find a hurricane save place during
hurricane season so yacht owners frequently move their ships. A
submarine yacht you can be left on anchor place in a open bay during
that time - no weather condition will damage or affect it - this is a
mayor cost benefit.

marina and harbor free operation

A surface yacht must stay in marinas due to its vulnerability to
weather - a submarine yacht allows true marina free operation any
place is ok to stay during your trip you can have a nice meal and a
fine night sleep in open sea.

closed burglar and pirate safe

A burglar can break into a surface yacht of any kind using a light
hand tool - this is not the case for a submarine yacht. A hatch can be
made with security features of a bank safe - break in with tools you
can deploy on an anchor place is impossible. A act of piracy is also
impossible a pirate can get on deck - but never into the hull.

quiet living space at sea

The main reason why yachts stay a lot in marinas and very little time
at sea is wave action. A submarine yacht can go to snorkel depth and
is perfectly quiet in a minute without relaying on breakwaters. You
can have a nice meal and go to sleep with no ship movement and
security concern at all. Sub surface living space is the only quiet
and safe living space available at open sea.

drift dive operation

In July 1996 Ben Franklin a 130 ton research submarine made a drift
dive of 30 days over a distance of 2700km in Golf Stream. This dive
compared with a submarine balloon trip was performed without any
engine use. Submarines that have a non-compressible buoyancy
regulation can stay stable at certain depth to do that kind of voyage.

economic cruising

No long distance surface swimming animal exists because this is not
energy efficient. Even whales that need surface for breathing (because
they started as a surface animal similar to a nutria -ambulocetus-)
swim now below surface - why ? because they cruise up to 12,000 miles
each year and nature shapes all animals to be energy efficient. Here
we are - if you are looking for a model for a energy efficient ocean
crossing submarine yacht take this. A 200 ton whale with a length of
30m (cut some of the tail section for hydrodynamic efficient length -
take some 25m) can come up to a speed of 30 knots and has been
measured at those speeds. Biologists and Physiologists estimate its
maximum power output at 400 horsepower. Whales are mammals so their
energy physiology is similar to other mammals. Which means there is a
big gap between the energy output you can get from the organism in a
emergency situation for a few minutes of fast swim and the energy
output you can get 24 hours a day. The most educated guess on that is
a factor 10 you can run very fast for 1 minute but if you wander 24
hours a day you have to do it at a slower rithm. This means what you
have on a whale tail 24 hours a day during wandering is maybe 40
horsepower possibly less. If you take into account that whales do not
feed which means do not re-fuel 6-8 months during wandering - how is
this possible ? - only if they use VERY VERY little energy for
swimming over VERY VERY long distances. What is the efficient speed
range ? Smaller whales cruise at some 3 knots bigger whales at up to 6
knots. Taking a stream speed of 3 knots in your favor as ben franklin
did in its 30 day Golf Stream drift dive - you could have a whale
economic ocean crossing at 9knots over ground in a submarine yacht -
not bad ! Having this in mind i took my prototype concrete submarine
to water back in 1996 it was whale shaped had 20 tons like a small
whale and my most important question was not top speed with a big
engine - this is quite clear anyhow - my question was the limbo - how
low can you go... so what i did first was installing a ridiculously
small electric engine of 200W into the sub and pushed the switch. -
What happened? First nothing then after a couple of seconds the hull
took up speed and kept taking up speed until it reached a speed of
what would be in the range of a whale efficient cruising speed - some
3 knots. So i never came to the point to install the big combustion
engine i had in mind in first place - it was not necessary. I later
put a small generator in to reload the small battery pack and extend
the range - that was all. In all my submarine yachting years i never
saw a situation i would have had a need for a bigger engine. This
ridiculously small engine pushed me trough storms had no problem to
get nose into the wind... So i am well aware what engine size is
recommended for surface yachts - BUT - based on my own experience i
would be concerned that such a engine would have a short life in a
yacht submarine yacht because it has to run all the time in under load
during cruising . I also have no problem if somebody wants a 400hp
engine in a 200 ton submarine yacht to run all the time at whale
emergency speed of 30 knots - you could water ski behind it...
My personal preference is doing it like those gentle giants - cruise
oceans energy efficient at moderate speed.

small engine

So the recommendation for a engine in a submarine yacht must be
between 2HP/ ton which is emergency power for a blue whale. This is
already considerably less than you would have in a surface yacht but
you should be aware that in a surface yacht you need a engine surplus
to fight against a storm that could smash you against a reef. For a
submarine yacht you could get away with a even smaller engine that
would take you just to efficient cruising speed which is the range of
0.2 HP / ton of displacement. You may have a engine that is 5-10 times
smaller than a similar sized surface yacht which means a mayor
reducction in building and maintainance cost.

enormous range

In a yacht submarine you have about half of the displacement as
ballast weight. If you push it to the extreme you could replace all
your ballast with diesel tanks. This would give you a tank reserve of
100.000 liter in a 200 ton submarine yacht. Which can take you 10.000
cruising hours at 3 miles/hour - So without taking the possible tank
volume to the limits - you can have a tank size for oceancrossings in
a submarine yacht.

lower slip and maintainance cost

The concrete submarine hulls of our concepts are built according to
the same rules that apply to submarine tunnels and bridge foundations
- in the same way the only surface that is exposed to sal****er
environment is a rounded concrete surface - therefore the maintainance
needed is similar to a bridge foundation or tunnel - it stays in water
for liftime - no dry dock, no painting, no sandblasting, - this is a
mayor maintainance cost reduction compared to a normal yacht.

lower hull building and engine cost

The hull building cost of our concrete hulls is less than 1/3 of
building a comparable steel hull. The engine size you will build in is
less than half of the horsepower you would have on a surface yacht of
similar size. This is a mayor building cost reduction compared to a
surface yacht.

back tohttp://concretesubmarine.com

You probably picture a submarine yacht incorrectly...

I doubth like you, that there will be a lot of people that voluntaryly adopt submarine confinement as a desireable syle of living.

It may be one out of hundred who really would like to live disconnected from the surface, producing oxigen from the seawater wandering submerged and seperated from mankind trough the worlds oceans captain nemo style.

The typical owner would handle a submersible living space bubble habitat (i avoid the word submarine due to the misleading coffin perception) as a simple yacht that is in almost all of its aspects a yacht, just absolute storm safe, seasickness free, burglar safe, and maintenance cost free.

Like other yachties you would not be the whole day enclosed inside your boat. You would form part of a yachtie community anchored in the bay of a caribbean island.

In the morning you would row over to the beach meet with people from the other boats, have a beach grill, a coconut, a island adventure - you would only return to your boat to have a pleaseant night sleep in a king size bed and a freshwater shower.

There are differences in lifestyle to other yachties. For example when you leave your boat in the morning (all of your family - nobody wants to stay and watch the family home) you just close the hatch - so your living space becomes absolute burglar safe.

The other yachties always live a bit preocupied about their boat, is somebody breaking in to steal your nav equipment?, is the weather on the anchorplace changing smashing the boat against the reef?, - so they tend to live "in sight" of the boat.

You on the other hand, when get an offer for this dream on week trip - take it - when you return you will find your stuff well protected inside your living space bubble - just exactly as you left it there - breaking in trough a hatch is like breaking into a banksafe - nobody can deploy the necessary (heavy industrial) tools on a anchorplace.

Another situation where your life is really different to a yachtie is when you are together with several sailing and motor yachts anchored in front of this pristine beach of a unhabitated island. Somebody has a radio and spreads the news that tropical cyclon Bertha category 4 is closing in. Now it becomes clear why this beautiful island was uninhabitated in first place - no save harbor miles around.

Some yachts rush out into the dark of the night to make it by the speed of their expensive engines to the next safe spot - just to find that it is cramped with poorly anchored industrial barges that tend to come loose in a storm and grind everything in their way to pieces.

Smaller yachts send the kids for the nearest hotel to be safe and go for the mangroves to bring out several lines to the trunks and fight it out. They can make it as long as the storm surge is moderate.

You on the other hand just close your hatch drink a coffee watch TV - no need to leave the anchor place. If things become bumpy flood your ballast tanks and lay your bubble some 5m down on the sandy lagoon bottom until the storm has passed over you. You and your family are safe as in a underground bunker.

You could take advantage of the **** weather and the sudden absence of all your yachtie friends and make a few miles to visit the next spot. You sail out directly into the storm - trim your living space bubble at snorkel depth - you leave the coffee cup on the table, you watch the weather the sea and ship traffic with your snorkel top camara - but your comfort is not affected by the storm.

Your live will also be a bit different when aproaching a cramped marina with no space for "another boat" - you will always be the "most exotic boat" that draws the attention and marina owners will love to asign you a nice place to stay - maybe for free. While it may be difficult to have privacy in a cramped marina on a surface boat - you close your hatch and you have it.

Your living space bubble will also be different in terms of aircon, comfort electrics, and loading capacity.

For example a yacht in the caribbean can spend dozends of dollars a day in aircon to make the climate below a sun heated deck just bearable. The seawater around your hull maintains the inside at 22 degee with no aircon need.

Yacht owners sometimes go crazy with the vibrations and noise of the small generator that keeps the battery and freezer alive. Noise dampening and vibration is most of all a function of bulkhead weight - bad news for "leight weight yacht outfitting" - you have your generator behind 20cm concrete - complete silence guaranteed.

Yachties are always short of loading capacity for freshwater food, tools, equipment.

You on the other hand have dozends of tons loading capacity this gives you not only the freedom of a much longer range compared with similar sized surface yachts - it also allows you to make a living as a trader - moving cold beer in hotel quantity to remote locations.

Wil

They are becomming increasingly popular for dope smugglers, leaving coasties less excuse for harrasing us surface yachties. Initially, they cruised the surface, or just below, but they are evolving to cruise at far geater depths all the time.
While concrete is weak in tensile strength, it is very strong in compression, which makes it ideal for a pressure vessel , like a sub. To gain neutral bouyancy , they have to be extremely thick, not your average ferro cemnt hull.
If well built at the outset, they have almost zero deterioration in anyone's lifetime.

The cement mixer has now been sold.

Regards

Helen & Stephen