On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 10:15:52 -0400, Sam wrote:


Hate to barge in but there is some potentially dangerous advice in a
post here. Apologies to the original poster but this is a bad idea:
snip

If you really DO intend to have two shore power inlets, they must be
switched so that only one can ever be "in circuit" at a time.
Thanks. I posted a response earlier that covered this. A manual switch
would totally disconnect one plug from the other, avoiding the
admittedly dangerous situation of an energised circuit.

I have a two year old. I would like him to do foredeck one day. So I
try to avoid electrocuting him G as it's bad for morale.


And, since I have already barged in he

Use tinned stranded wire for AC as well. No less than 14awg, bigger is
better. There are published guidelines for current capacity/distance
that should be followed, but bigger is better.

I would use 10 AWG tinned stranded for a 30 amp circuit. The runs are
not so long that cost is an issue. You can't go far wrong slightly
oversized, as the wife notes G.

Finally, install a GFCI for every AC outlet on the vessel.

Already done with the existing two AC outlets in the galley and the
head. Same with every new (since we bought the place in '98) outlet in
my home.

I got a
dramatic demonstration 2 years ago, when I stepped in a puddle from
showering (barefotot naturally) as I turned on an electrical device in
the head. The GFCI blew instantly. Now what do you suppose would have
happened to me if it hadn't popped?

Your heart would have popped.

GFCI's are cheap insurance. Beats waking up dead any day! They don't
stand up to salt water very well though. So if you cruise in salty air,
expect to replace once in a while. But GFCI's are cheap insurance as I said.

Not an issue as of yet. I cruise Lake Ontario, and beer is a bigger
hazard than salt water.

Thanks for the warning.

R.

rhys wrote:
On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, (Michael
Sutton) wrote:


do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
to this expense.


Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.

I have a 1973 racer cruiser made by Ontario Yachts, a reputable firm
known for solid boats (Ontario 28, 32, Niagara 35, etc.)

The electric wires in the boat are original except where I've changed
them. I intend to change all of them eventually, as I intend to
relocate the batteries, charger, etc. under a settee next to the mast
for better weight distribution.

The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.

Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
cabinetry, etc.

I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.

All new hard-wired devices, like gas/propane alarm and solenoid, depth
sounder, etc. get 14 or 16 gauge Ancor wire to the panel depending on
draw. As I have a stock 35 amp alternator on my Atomic 4, I try to
avoid heavy draws where possible.

On the AC side, yes, there is obviously 10 gauge exterior Romex-type
wire going from the hook-up to a small 30 amp fuse box which uses the
"shotgun cartridge" style of brass-ended fuses. They haven't blown in
the five years I've owned the boat. The two pairs of AC outlets on the
boat are properly grounded, but the Romex is beginning to get
tired-looking. When I get a new panel next year I will replace it with
10 gauge marine wire because I want proper AC circuit breakers, a
hard-wired charger, a small inverter, full isolation and two extra
paired outlets, one in the V-berth so I can run power tools in the
anchor locker, and one in the nav station for a PC as we are getting
wireless networking at the YC and I like to download weather maps
before I cruise.

My other suggestion, depending on the length of your boat, is to
install a second AC hook-up. Mine is in the cockpit and the 50 foot
cord must cross about 31 feet of deck, 5 feet of Zodiac, 6 feet of
dock finger and 4 feet of rise to get to the plug. Far better, I
think, would be to have a second plug at the bow
end...somewhere...allowing a shorter cord to be used and giving one
the opinion of docking in other slips stern in or bow in without
hauling too much or too little shore power cord. Less stuff on deck
that way as well.

Hope this helps. I am learning as well and quite enjoying myself. I
won't miss those little glass fuses, I can tell you.

R.

If you install the 'right' connectors, one at bow, one at stern, you
will energise the prongs sticking out of the unused one. If someone
removes that weather cover, full line power is available for prying
fingers. Dangerous, unless you have a switch over to select only
one input plug.

Terry K

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 04:08:59 GMT, Terry Spragg
wrote:



If you install the 'right' connectors, one at bow, one at stern, you
will energise the prongs sticking out of the unused one. If someone
removes that weather cover, full line power is available for prying
fingers. Dangerous, unless you have a switch over to select only
one input plug.

Perhaps I was unclear on that point: I would of course install a full
break point switch between the two plugs. Either, never both.

Fact is, I would use the bow plug 95% of the time as I dock bow in.
When I travel, however, and am stern in or on a wall with a bit of a
distance to a plug, or when I am in the cradle on the hard all winter,
I would revert to the stern plug.

Thanks.

R.

"Michael Sutton" wrote in message
om...


When boat manufacturers install 110v wiring in a boat at
the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?



Stranded wire.

Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical household
outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid wire won't work
for stranded.

Rod

Rod McInnis wrote:

Stranded wire.

Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical
household outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid
wire won't work for stranded.

They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Glenn Ashmore" writes:

They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.

There are at least 4 grades of duplex receptacles.

1) The "strip and stuff" residential designed for solid wire.

You strip the wire then stuff it in the hole on the back of the receptacle.

Strictly a low cost residential device.

2) Light Commercial grade designed for either solid or stranded wire, a side
wired device.

3) "Spec Grade", heavy duty industrial, designed for either solid or
stranded wire. Can be back or side wired.

4) "Hospital Grade", same as spec grade except with better performance
characteristics for the most difficult of all receptacle applications, the
hospital.

Hospital grade devices have a green dot on the face.

None of these devices are designed to require terminals, but if used in a
side wired application, the terminal certainly should NOT be soldered to the
wire.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:G5vtc.3$W01.0@okepread01...


Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical
household outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid
wire won't work for stranded.

They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.

The marine grade electrical outlets that I have used all have a clamp system
for securing stranded wire. You insert the wire into the hole in the back,
just like the household units. But instead of it being a "one way" catch,
the screw on the side tightens down the clamp.

Rod

Oh sure they will. You can either put the bare wire there, or fix a terminal
to the wire and fasten it to the screw on the side.

--


Keith
__
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Michael Sutton" wrote in message
om...


When boat manufacturers install 110v wiring in a boat at
the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?



Stranded wire.

Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical household
outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid wire won't work
for stranded.

Rod

"Stanley Barthfarkle" wrote in message om...
Never use solid core wire on anything that moves, vibrates, or flexes- Cars,
boats, elevators, trains, etc. Solid wire is for buildings, signs, etc, that
never move. Movement will eventually break the wire (or just cause it to
weaken, creating a point of resistance that will be a fire hazard)

Not to mention that stranded wire allows for more, in laymens terms,
flow of energy, less resistance in stranded wire... has to do with
surface area, but that is another story. Anyway, I almost agree with
the guy that said "if you have to ask,...", except I will say, if you
have to ask, you have a lot more reading to do Hopefully, your
origional question has been answered here.
Scotty



"Ytter" wrote in message
...
I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter

On Wed, 26 May 2004 18:21:36 -0700, "Ytter"
wrote (with possible editing):

I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter


I'll agree with everyone else - tinned, stranded wire is the best
wire to use. In addition, if the boat is fiberglass, you should use
"wire loom" for conductors which can rub against the hull or any other
unfinished fiberglass surface. The reason is that unfinished
fiberglass is quite abrasive. You can buy wire loom at auto parts
stores - it's like a flexible plastic pipe slit up the side. It
provides a smooth interior which will not abrade the insulation.
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com