Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Tom, you are incorrect. A solder joint under vibration can easily create a
resistive connection and it can be undetectable until it overheats. Please
review my previous advice and use a crimping tool that creats a very high
pressure crimp.
Steve

"Tom Shilson" wrote in message
...
dazed and confuzed wrote:


Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


I agree. The crimp is for a solid mechanical connection. The solder
gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

IF soldering is such a bad idea, then why are the windings (which are
made up of solid copper bars) inside an 800 megawatt generator (unit 2
Monroe MI) all soldered at the joints?
I watched them do this during a repair thirty years ago.
Matt Colie

wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:55:06 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:


Tom, you are incorrect. A solder joint under vibration can easily create a
resistive connection and it can be undetectable until it overheats. Please
review my previous advice and use a crimping tool that creats a very high
pressure crimp.
Steve



Vibration is not the only consideration, as it is illegal to solder power
connections in a building - at least in the U.S. The bottom line is that solder
is inappropriate for power wires anywhere, other than in a few very specific
applications. Unless you are manufacturing electronic devices, you are unlikely
to encounter those applications.

BB


"Tom Shilson" wrote in message
.. .

dazed and confuzed wrote:


Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


I agree. The crimp is for a solid mechanical connection. The solder
gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

On Fri, 28 May 2004 18:44:14 -0400, Matt Colie wrote:

IF soldering is such a bad idea, then why are the windings (which are
made up of solid copper bars) inside an 800 megawatt generator (unit 2
Monroe MI) all soldered at the joints?
I watched them do this during a repair thirty years ago.
Matt Colie

I'd wager silver solder was used.
Norm B


wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:55:06 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:


Tom, you are incorrect. A solder joint under vibration can easily create a
resistive connection and it can be undetectable until it overheats. Please
review my previous advice and use a crimping tool that creats a very high
pressure crimp.
Steve



Vibration is not the only consideration, as it is illegal to solder power
connections in a building - at least in the U.S. The bottom line is that solder
is inappropriate for power wires anywhere, other than in a few very specific
applications. Unless you are manufacturing electronic devices, you are unlikely
to encounter those applications.

BB


"Tom Shilson" wrote in message
. ..

dazed and confuzed wrote:


Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


I agree. The crimp is for a solid mechanical connection. The solder
gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Personnally, I don't think the solder melting is the problem. The problem
is the heat being generated in a defective solder joint and that heat is
passed on to the connected wires. I've had to rebuild several power
supplies where the breakers/fuses never tripped/popped until after the wire
insulation melted off of the wires and the wires came in contact with each
other or ground.


Pass the crimpers please.

Mike B
USAF Retired
30 Year Electronics Tech.


"dazed and confuzed" wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Fri, 28 May 2004 18:03:11 GMT, Dan Best wrote:


I didn't know that. Why is it not safe? What problems can it cause?



In some situations the wire could heat up enough to soften or even
melt the solder before tripping a breaker. This could result in the
joint coming apart, and the free ends could then contact something
else, including a human. The other problem if the solder melts is that
molten solder could drip and bridge two things that should not be
bridged, or land on something flammable. These things don't happen a
lot, but they have happend enough to be included in wiring and safety
codes. Many codes relate to things that rarely occur, but have serious
consequences when they DO occur. How often does a smoke detector have
to save your life to be worthwhile?

BB



Thanks - Dan

wrote:

On Thu, 27 May 2004 19:03:47 -0500, dazed and confuzed
wrote:



QLW wrote:


I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to
fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


Power wires should NEVER be soldered. It's against NEC and NFPA code
for good reason. It's not safe.

BB


if a connection is properly engineered, I.E., the terminal and wire are
sized correctly, the breaker is sized correctly, and the post that the
terminal is connected to is the correct size, then the solder will not
melt before the breaker trips.

--
the most committed always win

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
NEVER solder an electrical connection within a vehicle or any machine that
is subject to motion or vibration. The solder creates a stress
concentration
at the end of the solder, which in time will cause the wire to break right
at the joint. That is why it should never be done. Those that have done
this
and not experienced a failure are simply lucky.
Steve

Generally I crimped and soldered all connections on my boat. IMO there is
little motion or vibration of well supported wires within a boat's
structure.

HOWEVER (and this is a big one), I would NOT solder connections to wires
that are attached to the engine, where there is significant vibration. I
had an alternator output wire fail right at the end of the solder
connection, which seemed to be an obvious fatigue failure. Could have been
nasty if it hadn't broken cleanly away.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

dude who publicly calls himself "dazed and confuzed" be advised that you are
arguing against something the professionals determined decades ago. Give it
up, or look even more a fool.

-0500, dazed and confuzed
wrote:



if a connection is properly engineered, I.E., the terminal and wire are
sized correctly, the breaker is sized correctly, and the post that the
terminal is connected to is the correct size, then the solder will not
melt before the breaker trips.


Wanna bet your life on everything being perfect and staying that way?

BB
In the real world nothing is perfect. You are betting your life on the
fact that a crimp is perfect as well. Most (not all) solder terminals
have some sort of minimal mechanical connection to hold the conductor in
the terminal until it is soldered.

How do you know that the crimp terminal was done properly? Yet you are
willing to "bet your life" on the fact that it is. It's harder to tell
if a crimped terminal is done improperly than a soldered one.

There is a place for soldered and a place for crimped connections. Yet
either is a good connection IF done properly. If not, either will fail.

The fools are the ones that crimp and then solder.

--
the most committed always win

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

In the real world nothing is perfect. You are betting your life on the
fact that a crimp is perfect as well. Most (not all) solder terminals
have some sort of minimal mechanical connection to hold the conductor in
the terminal until it is soldered.

In Military aircraft, (some years ago in my experience) only soldered
connections were approved. Only stranded wire was used, and a clip-on
heatsink was used on a small (say 1/8 inch on #16 wire) area just
outside the lug, so solder could not 'wick' into the rest of the
stranded wire, which would degrade the vibration resistance of the wire.
Inspectors had to see the soldered connection before sleeving was
applied over the wire end and lug.

Initially I thought this was a little over-conservative. Then I
realized it was my friends from High School who were flying those F4's
and at 500 MPH close to the ground those connections mattered.

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

"The one who dies with the most parts LOSES! What do you need??"

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

none wrote in message ...
what an absurd response!
For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;
therefore stranded wire is best for high current loads of Dc. If the wire
is well supported and larger than necessary for the rated current AND
cheap enough vs stranded, then go with it. Otherwise, stranded.
rick


Skin effect is something that occurs at higher frequencies. At DC the
electron distribution is equal through the CS of the wire. Skin
effect can usually be ignored below 50 kHz.

Rodney