rhys wrote:
On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, (Michael
Sutton) wrote:


do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
to this expense.


Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.

I have a 1973 racer cruiser made by Ontario Yachts, a reputable firm
known for solid boats (Ontario 28, 32, Niagara 35, etc.)

The electric wires in the boat are original except where I've changed
them. I intend to change all of them eventually, as I intend to
relocate the batteries, charger, etc. under a settee next to the mast
for better weight distribution.

The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.

Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
cabinetry, etc.

I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.

All new hard-wired devices, like gas/propane alarm and solenoid, depth
sounder, etc. get 14 or 16 gauge Ancor wire to the panel depending on
draw. As I have a stock 35 amp alternator on my Atomic 4, I try to
avoid heavy draws where possible.

On the AC side, yes, there is obviously 10 gauge exterior Romex-type
wire going from the hook-up to a small 30 amp fuse box which uses the
"shotgun cartridge" style of brass-ended fuses. They haven't blown in
the five years I've owned the boat. The two pairs of AC outlets on the
boat are properly grounded, but the Romex is beginning to get
tired-looking. When I get a new panel next year I will replace it with
10 gauge marine wire because I want proper AC circuit breakers, a
hard-wired charger, a small inverter, full isolation and two extra
paired outlets, one in the V-berth so I can run power tools in the
anchor locker, and one in the nav station for a PC as we are getting
wireless networking at the YC and I like to download weather maps
before I cruise.

My other suggestion, depending on the length of your boat, is to
install a second AC hook-up. Mine is in the cockpit and the 50 foot
cord must cross about 31 feet of deck, 5 feet of Zodiac, 6 feet of
dock finger and 4 feet of rise to get to the plug. Far better, I
think, would be to have a second plug at the bow
end...somewhere...allowing a shorter cord to be used and giving one
the opinion of docking in other slips stern in or bow in without
hauling too much or too little shore power cord. Less stuff on deck
that way as well.

Hope this helps. I am learning as well and quite enjoying myself. I
won't miss those little glass fuses, I can tell you.

R.

If you install the 'right' connectors, one at bow, one at stern, you
will energise the prongs sticking out of the unused one. If someone
removes that weather cover, full line power is available for prying
fingers. Dangerous, unless you have a switch over to select only
one input plug.

Terry K

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 03:10:40 GMT, wrote:

You can't prove I'm wrong. Sorry Jax, you lose this one.

Now you're really sounding like Jax yourself, arguing to death a point
that is indefensible and wrong. Here's the proof that you're wrong when
you say soldered wiring connections are not allowed on boats:

ABYC E-8.15.19 allows for soldered wiring on a boat.

You've said they're in the process of changing that but have not shown
any proposed revisions to support that claim. Until they change that
standard, you are absolutely 100% wrong. And even if they do change the
standard, a boat not meeting ABYC standards in and of itself is not a
reason to fail an insurance survey since most boats that pass insurance
surveys do not meet all ABYC standards. However, one that does meet all
of the standards is practically a sure pass. Which, again, means you
are wrong when you say that a boat meeting all ABYC standards *will*
fail an insurance survey.

Now, let's see you find similar proof that properly soldered and
supported wiring is not allowed on a boat. I'll bet you can't.

Steve

On 02 Jun 2004 03:15:22 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

schlackoff, go to sleep. come back three days from now.

Jax, go to rehab again. Come back when you're dry. That "break" you
took last time didn't work.

Steve

Boat builders are basically carpenters, not electrical engineers.

When it comes to things electrical, boat builders have a tough time figuring
out how to get out of the rain.

are you saying that boat builders are too stupid to know how to solder a
connection and therefore crimp connections in utter error?

schlackoff, go to sleep. come back three days from now.

schlackoff, go to sleep. come back three days from now.

Jax, go to rehab again. Come back when you're dry. That "break" you
took last time didn't work.

Steve

and ONLY if there is no DC current leakage, or DC grounds wired to the AC
grounds. Of course, this NEVER happens. ;-)

--


Keith
__
Pardon my driving, I'm reloading.
"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:%D8vc.3368$sI.620@attbi_s52...
"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote...

You don't have to install a GFCI in every outlet. Just in the first
outlet of the circuit, the rest that are downstream will be protected.
Just
have them in every circuit.

ONLY if the GFCI outlet supports chaining, and ONLY if it is the first
outlet in the circuit and ONLY if it (the circuit and the GFCI) is wired
correctly!

Subject: Potentially DANGEROUS advice.
From: "Steve Lusardi"

Secondly, when plugging
in to shore power, never connect the safety earth line. Instead use a line
to your boat earth for the safety connection. Remember, your hull will
always be a better earth connection than the one from the distribution
transformer for the pier or yard and any leak anywhere in that distribution
net will use your hull as the preferred return path. This will create severe
electric corrosion on your boat and you will never know why.

I'd say Always make sure your green wire is connected to the shorepower, use an
isolator to prevent corrosion. If you need that green wire return due to a
short, the electricity will go back up the wire and trip a breaker. If its
grounded to the hull you create a very dangerous situation in the water around
the boat.

Dennis

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:23:10 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 04:48:36 GMT, (Steven Shelikoff) wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 03:10:40 GMT, wrote:

You can't prove I'm wrong. Sorry Jax, you lose this one.

Now you're really sounding like Jax yourself, arguing to death a point
that is indefensible and wrong. Here's the proof that you're wrong when
you say soldered wiring connections are not allowed on boats:

ABYC E-8.15.19 allows for soldered wiring on a boat.

You've said they're in the process of changing that but have not shown
any proposed revisions to support that claim. Until they change that
standard, you are absolutely 100% wrong. And even if they do change the
standard, a boat not meeting ABYC standards in and of itself is not a
reason to fail an insurance survey since most boats that pass insurance
surveys do not meet all ABYC standards. However, one that does meet all
of the standards is practically a sure pass. Which, again, means you
are wrong when you say that a boat meeting all ABYC standards *will*
fail an insurance survey.

Now, let's see you find similar proof that properly soldered and
supported wiring is not allowed on a boat. I'll bet you can't.

Sure, Jaxy. Take your meds and a nap.

Just as I thought. I knew you couldn't prove your statement, because
it's wrong. And out of frustration you stoop to the personal insult of
calling me Jaxy. You're finished.

Steve

Sure, Jaxy. Take your meds and a nap.

Just as I thought. I knew you couldn't prove your statement, because
it's wrong. And out of frustration you stoop to the personal insult of
calling me Jaxy. You're finished.

Steve


schlackoff, that was no insult to *you*.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:%D8vc.3368$sI.620@attbi_s52...
"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote...

You don't have to install a GFCI in every outlet. Just in the first
outlet of the circuit, the rest that are downstream will be protected.

ONLY if the GFCI outlet supports chaining,

Most do. In fact, I can't recall seeing any in the last 20 years that
didn't.

and ONLY if it is the first outlet in the circuit

Certainly not a hard thing to do.

and ONLY if it (the circuit and the GFCI) is wired
correctly!

If you can't wire it right, hire someone who can.

Rod