Peter Bennett wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 07:56:38 -0700, Stephen Trapani
wrote:



Does anyone know how much these forward facing ports, etc increase one's
ability to pilot from the cabin? say with an autopilot and remote
control? This would be my main reason for putting one on my '79 Hunter
33,' not to make the cabin into the helm, but to feel freer and safer to
go below for longer while on autopilot.

Stephen


It would depend a great deal on the design of the cabin. On my Yamaha
30, the front of the cabin was so low, and sloped so slightly, that
you wouldn't get any useful visibility from a forward port. Often,
the slope of the deck, and debris on the foredeck (anchor winch and
anchor, stowed sails, etc) would severely limit your visibility.

To get useful visibility, you would need a cabin that is fairly high
forward, with a near-vertical forward bulkhead, and a clear foredeck
with little upwards slope towards the bow.



Good point, I'd better go eyeball everything for a while. Like I won't
be able to lash the heasail to the lifelines and still see through it.

Stephen

Stephen

DSK wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote:

Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing
port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of
them. Can't that be unsafe?


You're thinking like driving a car. The answer is, at sea it wouldn't be
unsafe because there's nothing to run into; conversely, you need to be
able to see in all directions equally because there are things that can
run over *you*.

Ah, so I can see how a forward facing port or hatch wouldn't be of much
help in a bluewater boat.

But I don't think I'll ever be at sea with this boat, only in Puget
Sound where there is less ability to rely on the autopilot. In high
traffic areas one needs to be watching more, though there are times and
places where there is nothing one couldn't see or hear coming from far
away.

Like even without an autopilot, I get a little nervous going below while
others are at the helm, I'd like to be able to keep my eye on things
better while doing things below.

Am I missing something?


The serious singlehanders used to install heavy plexiglass domes in
their coach roofs, so they could stick their heads up and see what's
going on (including with the rig & sails) without opening a port or
hatch to let heavy weather in.

I see a vision of me cooking a quesadia on my propane stove in the
galley looking through my forward facing port light, 12"X 20"ish with a
visor over the top of it to keep out most of the rain, with a custom
heavy weather cover which I'll lash on it in the heaviest P.S. weather.

Lunatic or visionary??? ;-)

Stephen

Armond Perretta wrote:


BTW, do you know a Stephen Trapani in NJ?

No, but I once walked into a Mall in Clackamas, OR and saw a Pizza chain
looking place called Trapani's Pizza.

Stephen

Armond Perretta wrote:
Doug, unfortunately my experience contradicts your statement to some
extent.

I should have made it plain that I was quoting theory

... I have more than once come on deck offshore (let's say more than a
few hundred miles from any coast) to find myself all too close to
whales, containers, and on more than one occasion large commercial vessels.
I think the original writer's concerns are well founded.

Yes agreed, except that all-around visibility is just as important as
visibility forward IMHO. And I would seriously discourage anybody from
letting their autopilot keep the watch on deck in any but the absolute
worst weather. It is far too easy to get distracted and/or lose track of
time, and not keep lookout when one is down below. When conditions are
so bad that it is actively dangerous to stay on deck, then you'll have
worse problems anyway. And it might not be so safe down below!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Stephen Trapani wrote:
I see a vision of me cooking a quesadia on my propane stove in the
galley looking through my forward facing port light, 12"X 20"ish with a
visor over the top of it to keep out most of the rain, with a custom
heavy weather cover which I'll lash on it in the heaviest P.S. weather.

Lunatic or visionary??? ;-)

Visionary, definitely. But you should have gotten a trawler.

Like this one, for example
http://community.webshots.com/album/63279185YQtgSA

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Not at all, you need to come up on deck periodically and scan the total
horizon.
The only thing that I could think of is a plastic 'navigators' bubble
that would give 360 deg. visability ... would be any good.

In article , Stephen Trapani
wrote:

Karin Conover-Lewis wrote:

Because the forward-facing cabin side is usually angled upwards, opening
ports have a tendency to collect water, and are more vulnerable to letting
water in if they fail. But as long as you take this into account, you can
still put portlights, opening ports or even hatches there if you want. And
many manufacturers do. Any port which would be weak in heavy weather, but
would otherwise be quite safe and serviceable, can always have storm
shutters fitted. Personally, I am of the opinion that virtually all ports
should be fitted with them.


Does anyone know how much these forward facing ports, etc increase one's
ability to pilot from the cabin? say with an autopilot and remote
control? This would be my main reason for putting one on my '79 Hunter
33,' not to make the cabin into the helm, but to feel freer and safer to
go below for longer while on autopilot.

Stephen

Well, different ports will offer differing visibility. Our CT-41 was a
pilothouse model, with an inside helm. Naturally there were substantial
ports on both sides as well as forward, plus a hatch directly above the helm
station. Visibility from there was excellent except for astern. The
stateroom, forward, had smaller opening ports on the forward bulkhead, but
virtually no visibility from them. If you can place ports or deadlights in a
way that will increase your visibility from below, while maintaining
seaworthiness, I would be highly in favour of it. Because there are just
times when going below is necessary, but you still want to see what's going
on around you.

--
Karin Conover-Lewis
Fair and Balanced since 1959
klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net


"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Karin Conover-Lewis wrote:

Because the forward-facing cabin side is usually angled upwards, opening
ports have a tendency to collect water, and are more vulnerable to
letting
water in if they fail. But as long as you take this into account, you
can
still put portlights, opening ports or even hatches there if you want.
And
many manufacturers do. Any port which would be weak in heavy weather,
but
would otherwise be quite safe and serviceable, can always have storm
shutters fitted. Personally, I am of the opinion that virtually all
ports
should be fitted with them.


Does anyone know how much these forward facing ports, etc increase one's
ability to pilot from the cabin? say with an autopilot and remote
control? This would be my main reason for putting one on my '79 Hunter
33,' not to make the cabin into the helm, but to feel freer and safer to
go below for longer while on autopilot.

Stephen

Stephen Trapani wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote:

BTW, do you know a Stephen Trapani in NJ?

No, but I once walked into a Mall in Clackamas, OR and saw a Pizza
chain looking place called Trapani's Pizza.

True Facts Department: My wife and I just got back from a swimming pool
party where I bumped into a neighbor named Stephen J. Trapani. I didn't ask
if he was in the pizza trade.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Stephen Trapani wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote:

In article , Stephen Trapani
wrote:

Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions,
but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin
of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't
sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy?


What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being
below when underway whether using an autopilot or not?

Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing
port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of
them. Can't that be unsafe?

Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is
keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For
the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If
one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit.

I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini
and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our
living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch
(or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or
probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse.

The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down
into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to
have in Puget Sound anyway.



grandma Rosalie

Karin Conover-Lewis wrote:
Well, different ports will offer differing visibility. Our CT-41 was a
pilothouse model, with an inside helm. Naturally there were substantial
ports on both sides as well as forward, plus a hatch directly above the helm
station. Visibility from there was excellent except for astern. The
stateroom, forward, had smaller opening ports on the forward bulkhead, but
virtually no visibility from them. If you can place ports or deadlights in a
way that will increase your visibility from below, while maintaining
seaworthiness, I would be highly in favour of it. Because there are just
times when going below is necessary, but you still want to see what's going
on around you.


That's what I've been thinking!

Stephen