My center cockpit ketch had the aft sink plumbed 10 feet to a tee in
the cockpit drain. The head (MSD, blah, blah, blah) was plumbed to
the through hull directly under the aft sink.

Now, I'm trying to connect these back up...

I've a bit of a problem running the sink drain to the cockpit drain
through hull.

I think I should have a problem teeing the sink into the head through
hull....

I'd rather not put another hole in the hull. But I figured somebody
here would have an opinion....

Horace Brownbag wrote:
My center cockpit ketch had the aft sink plumbed 10 feet to a tee in
the cockpit drain. The head (MSD, blah, blah, blah) was plumbed to
the through hull directly under the aft sink.

Now, I'm trying to connect these back up...

I've a bit of a problem running the sink drain to the cockpit drain
through hull.

I think I should have a problem teeing the sink into the head through
hull....

Why? It's a great idea! In fact, several sailboat builders plumb them
that way to save a through-hull. There's also another advantage--the
ability to use the sink to flush seawater out of the whole system before
it can sit and stagnate (or after it has)...just close the seacock, fill
the sink with clean fresh water...flush. Because the thru-hull is
closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing out the
intake hose and channel in the rim of the bowl as well as the discharge
hose...something that just pouring water into the bowl can't do. It does
require keeping the sink plugged when not in use, though...otherwise the
toilet will pull air through the sink, preventing the pump from priming.

I figured somebody
here would have an opinion....

Yup.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 04:07:58 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

Horace Brownbag wrote:
My center cockpit ketch had the aft sink plumbed 10 feet to a tee in
the cockpit drain. The head (MSD, blah, blah, blah) was plumbed to
the through hull directly under the aft sink.

Now, I'm trying to connect these back up...

I've a bit of a problem running the sink drain to the cockpit drain
through hull.

I think I should have a problem teeing the sink into the head through
hull....

Why? It's a great idea! In fact, several sailboat builders plumb them
that way to save a through-hull. There's also another advantage--the
ability to use the sink to flush seawater out of the whole system before
it can sit and stagnate (or after it has)...just close the seacock, fill
the sink with clean fresh water...flush. Because the thru-hull is
closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing out the
intake hose and channel in the rim of the bowl as well as the discharge
hose...something that just pouring water into the bowl can't do. It does
require keeping the sink plugged when not in use, though...otherwise the
toilet will pull air through the sink, preventing the pump from priming.

I figured somebody
here would have an opinion....

Yup.

....oh, sorry, I should have been a bit more specific.. These are
drains.

Teeing the gray water from the sink, and the black water from the
head.

If the seacock were closed, and the Y valve was the wrong way, black
water would go up the sink drain.

I'd rather not do this, ...I mean, I can keep the valves turned the
right way, but it reminds me of a chicken's vent....but I'd, also,
would like to keep the cockpit drain as a cockpit drain only.

It's coming to the point where I cannot hem or haw anymore....

Horace Brownbag wrote:
...oh, sorry, I should have been a bit more specific.. These are
both drains.

Ohhh...I thought you meant the head INTAKE and sink drain.

Then no, that won't work. Nor would I recommend flushing the toilet out
a cockpit drain either...that the builder may have designed it that
way is only one more example of how little thought is given to onboard
waste management.

How many thru-hulls do you have for the head INTAKE and sink drain?

If there's one for each, you could combine the sink drain with one of
'em, and enlarge the other to accomodate a 1.5" head discharge...or you
could drain the sink into a sump (if there are any) instead of directly
overboard, and enlarge that thru-hull for the head discharge.

Unless the boat has a holding tank, those are the only two ways I can
think of that make any sense to have only two thru-hulls for both the
sink drain and the toilet.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Your setup violates good seamanship. You should never have a drain
connecting into the cockpit scuppers. Any possible clog could cause the
cockpit to fill and you know what happens then.

--
Dennis Gibbons
dkgibbons at optonline dot net
"Horace Brownbag" wrote in message
...
My center cockpit ketch had the aft sink plumbed 10 feet to a tee in
the cockpit drain. The head (MSD, blah, blah, blah) was plumbed to
the through hull directly under the aft sink.

Now, I'm trying to connect these back up...

I've a bit of a problem running the sink drain to the cockpit drain
through hull.

I think I should have a problem teeing the sink into the head through
hull....

I'd rather not put another hole in the hull. But I figured somebody
here would have an opinion....

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:47:27 GMT, "Dennis Gibbons"
wrote:

Your setup violates good seamanship. You should never have a drain
connecting into the cockpit scuppers. Any possible clog could cause the
cockpit to fill and you know what happens then.

Yeah....that's the reason I've my current dilemma.

Both the forward sink, and the aft sink ran to the cockpit drain
through hull.

The forward sink was an easy fix. There was a through hull already in
place directly underneath.

The aft sink also has a through hull directly under it, but the
plumbing from holding tank and the fore and aft heads is connected to
it.

The 1/2" intake for the heads is approx 4 feet further away and I
think a bit too small to use as a drain.

I think I might try Peggy's idea of using a sump. ...the shower sump
is on the other side of the bulkhead.

It might be the best I can do...not having a first choice.

Horace Brownbag wrote:
The aft sink also has a through hull directly under it, but the
plumbing from holding tank and the fore and aft heads is connected to
it.

The foreward head discharge hose runs that far aft? How long IS that
hose? Optimally, head discharge hose should not exceed 6'...'cuz that's
as far as bowl contents will move in the amount of time 99.999% spends
pumping the toilet. Significantly longer leaves waste sitting in the
hose to permeate it.

The 1/2" intake for the heads is approx 4 feet further away and I
think a bit too small to use as a drain.

Head intake and sink drain SHOULD both be 3/4". If yours is only 1/2",
it's too small for either. 4' isn't too far unless the route leaves a
sag in the hose.

I think I might try Peggy's idea of using a sump. ...the shower sump
is on the other side of the bulkhead.

It might be the best I can do...not having a first choice.

It might be time to redesign the whole system!

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 16:01:27 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

Horace Brownbag wrote:
The aft sink also has a through hull directly under it, but the
plumbing from holding tank and the fore and aft heads is connected to
it.

The foreward head discharge hose runs that far aft? How long IS that
hose? Optimally, head discharge hose should not exceed 6'...'cuz that's
as far as bowl contents will move in the amount of time 99.999% spends
pumping the toilet. Significantly longer leaves waste sitting in the
hose to permeate it.

The 1/2" intake for the heads is approx 4 feet further away and I
think a bit too small to use as a drain.

Head intake and sink drain SHOULD both be 3/4". If yours is only 1/2",
it's too small for either. 4' isn't too far unless the route leaves a
sag in the hose.

I think I might try Peggy's idea of using a sump. ...the shower sump
is on the other side of the bulkhead.

It might be the best I can do...not having a first choice.

It might be time to redesign the whole system!

Thanks, Peggie. You gave me an idea....

The 1/2" inlet turns out to be 3/4". I think I'll make that the head
inlet and the sink drain.

The forward head...well, it's approx. 10 feet from the holding tank,
and I don't envision modifying it to put a holding tank within a
reasonable distance to the head....and I'm not sure I want the hassle
from the Coast Guard for having a direct discharge head...even if the
aft head goes into a holding tank, and is the only one used when we
are not out.

Horace Brownbag wrote:
The forward head...well, it's approx. 10 feet from the holding tank,
and I don't envision modifying it to put a holding tank within a
reasonable distance to the head....and I'm not sure I want the hassle
from the Coast Guard for having a direct discharge head...even if the
aft head goes into a holding tank, and is the only one used when we
are not out.

Easily solved: put a y-valve in the line so you can flush it directly
overboard...tie-wrap the seacock or the y-valve handle closed when
you're inside the "3 mile limit," and you'll be in 100% compliance with
marine sanitation laws, so the CG won't have any reason to hassle you.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 02:59:19 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

Horace Brownbag wrote:
The forward head...well, it's approx. 10 feet from the holding tank,
and I don't envision modifying it to put a holding tank within a
reasonable distance to the head....and I'm not sure I want the hassle
from the Coast Guard for having a direct discharge head...even if the
aft head goes into a holding tank, and is the only one used when we
are not out.

Easily solved: put a y-valve in the line so you can flush it directly
overboard...tie-wrap the seacock or the y-valve handle closed when
you're inside the "3 mile limit," and you'll be in 100% compliance with
marine sanitation laws, so the CG won't have any reason to hassle you.

I've done this on my Great Lakes boat with no problem. I have (from
the hull up)

a seacock,
a six inch piece of marine hose (double clamped both ends)
a reducing T-fitting to a 3/4" water intake to the head (just below
the waterline and double SS-hose clamped)
about a 12 inch length of double SS-hose clamped marine hose
a plastic ballcock with appropriate barbs
a short length of clamped hose going into the drain pipe (about 10
inches) of the head sink.

Methodology is as follows:

Normally, both seacock on hull and the plastic ball valve are CLOSED.

When I want to use the head, I reach into the space beneath the sink
and open the seacock. The hoses fill with water, slightly under
pressure as the entrance is about 18 inches beneath the waterline.

I use an old Brydon manual head that's about kaput, but it works for
the light duty I subject it to.

When finished, I flush to a 30 gallon holding tank.

I close the seacock.

To empty the sink, I simply open both the plastic ball valve and the
seacock. Grey water leaves the boat. I suppose a smidgen might get
into the head intake pipe, but visually, at least, this is not an
issue.

No problems in three years with this, except for a visit to the
Travelift when the seacock split due to "failure to winterize
properly" by me.

If Peggie says this is OK, feel free to swipe this "design".
Obviously, an offshore set-up would be simpler, but I flush WITH the
lake, not INTO the lake G.

R.