I can't figure it out. I keep having to let refrigerant out
of my Adler Barbour. It runs great with the suction-side
pressure set at 15 psi. But, every month or so it will
commence to cycle off and on after being off for the night.

I put a gauge on it and the suction side pressure is in the
beginning of the red range(55 psi). It turns on and the
compressor starts compressing, the pressure starts going
down but it only gets to about 45 psi until the compressor
*clicks off* and the voltage gauge goes up a volt or two
because the load comes off the circuit.

Then it turns itself off and back on and the compressor
starts to compress again and the pressure goes down to about
45 psi, then it cycles off again.

So, I let out some pressure until it only starts out around
45 psi and it will finally keep compressing until it draws
down the suction side to about 15 psi where it stabilizes.

So where does the extra pressure come from. I've had to
let out ten pounds of pressure about half a dozen times
this summer. I can understand leaks but this is ridiculous!


--
Sir Gregory

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:14:32 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:



I can't figure it out. I keep having to let refrigerant out
of my Adler Barbour. It runs great with the suction-side
pressure set at 15 psi. But, every month or so it will
commence to cycle off and on after being off for the night.

I put a gauge on it and the suction side pressure is in the
beginning of the red range(55 psi). It turns on and the
compressor starts compressing, the pressure starts going
down but it only gets to about 45 psi until the compressor
*clicks off* and the voltage gauge goes up a volt or two
because the load comes off the circuit.

Then it turns itself off and back on and the compressor
starts to compress again and the pressure goes down to about
45 psi, then it cycles off again.

So, I let out some pressure until it only starts out around
45 psi and it will finally keep compressing until it draws
down the suction side to about 15 psi where it stabilizes.

So where does the extra pressure come from. I've had to
let out ten pounds of pressure about half a dozen times
this summer. I can understand leaks but this is ridiculous!

You have a closed system connected to a compressor. One side to the
suction side and the other to the pressure side. Think why the suction
side would be at a higher pressure, or conversely, why the low
pressure side is at a lower pressure in a properly operating system.
--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 19:08:56 +0700, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:14:32 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

I can't figure it out. I keep having to let refrigerant out
of my Adler Barbour. It runs great with the suction-side
pressure set at 15 psi. But, every month or so it will
commence to cycle off and on after being off for the night.

I put a gauge on it and the suction side pressure is in the
beginning of the red range(55 psi). It turns on and the
compressor starts compressing, the pressure starts going
down but it only gets to about 45 psi until the compressor
*clicks off* and the voltage gauge goes up a volt or two
because the load comes off the circuit.

Then it turns itself off and back on and the compressor
starts to compress again and the pressure goes down to about
45 psi, then it cycles off again.

So, I let out some pressure until it only starts out around
45 psi and it will finally keep compressing until it draws
down the suction side to about 15 psi where it stabilizes.

So where does the extra pressure come from. I've had to
let out ten pounds of pressure about half a dozen times
this summer. I can understand leaks but this is ridiculous!

You have a closed system connected to a compressor. One side to the
suction side and the other to the pressure side. Think why the suction
side would be at a higher pressure, or conversely, why the low
pressure side is at a lower pressure in a properly operating system.

Since the two sides are able to equalize when the compressor
sits idle overnight the suction side and the compressed side
should be the same. So, when I measure the suction side at
startup and it shows 50 psi that means the compressed side
is also (temporarily) at 50. As the suction side pressure
decreases the compressed side increases.

So, if I measured pressure on the suction side in Jult after
it has sat idle all night it and it starts out being 30psi,
do tell why in August it will suddenly be reading 50psi on
the same suction side at start up?

--
Sir Gregory

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:38:12 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 19:08:56 +0700, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:14:32 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

I can't figure it out. I keep having to let refrigerant out
of my Adler Barbour. It runs great with the suction-side
pressure set at 15 psi. But, every month or so it will
commence to cycle off and on after being off for the night.

I put a gauge on it and the suction side pressure is in the
beginning of the red range(55 psi). It turns on and the
compressor starts compressing, the pressure starts going
down but it only gets to about 45 psi until the compressor
*clicks off* and the voltage gauge goes up a volt or two
because the load comes off the circuit.

Then it turns itself off and back on and the compressor
starts to compress again and the pressure goes down to about
45 psi, then it cycles off again.

So, I let out some pressure until it only starts out around
45 psi and it will finally keep compressing until it draws
down the suction side to about 15 psi where it stabilizes.

So where does the extra pressure come from. I've had to
let out ten pounds of pressure about half a dozen times
this summer. I can understand leaks but this is ridiculous!

You have a closed system connected to a compressor. One side to the
suction side and the other to the pressure side. Think why the suction
side would be at a higher pressure, or conversely, why the low
pressure side is at a lower pressure in a properly operating system.

Since the two sides are able to equalize when the compressor
sits idle overnight the suction side and the compressed side
should be the same. So, when I measure the suction side at
startup and it shows 50 psi that means the compressed side
is also (temporarily) at 50. As the suction side pressure
decreases the compressed side increases.

So, if I measured pressure on the suction side in Jult after
it has sat idle all night it and it starts out being 30psi,
do tell why in August it will suddenly be reading 50psi on
the same suction side at start up?

As I said, it IS a closed system. If the system has been off for a
sufficient period the entire system should be the same pressure as the
refrigerant will be the same temperature throughout the system.

Then you start the system and the compressor sucks on one side and
blows on the other as it is a closed system why aren't the two sides
of the system still at the same pressure?
--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 07:34:51 +0700, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:38:12 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 19:08:56 +0700, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:14:32 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

I can't figure it out. I keep having to let refrigerant out
of my Adler Barbour. It runs great with the suction-side
pressure set at 15 psi. But, every month or so it will
commence to cycle off and on after being off for the night.

I put a gauge on it and the suction side pressure is in the
beginning of the red range(55 psi). It turns on and the
compressor starts compressing, the pressure starts going
down but it only gets to about 45 psi until the compressor
*clicks off* and the voltage gauge goes up a volt or two
because the load comes off the circuit.

Then it turns itself off and back on and the compressor
starts to compress again and the pressure goes down to about
45 psi, then it cycles off again.

So, I let out some pressure until it only starts out around
45 psi and it will finally keep compressing until it draws
down the suction side to about 15 psi where it stabilizes.

So where does the extra pressure come from. I've had to
let out ten pounds of pressure about half a dozen times
this summer. I can understand leaks but this is ridiculous!

You have a closed system connected to a compressor. One side to the
suction side and the other to the pressure side. Think why the suction
side would be at a higher pressure, or conversely, why the low
pressure side is at a lower pressure in a properly operating system.

Since the two sides are able to equalize when the compressor
sits idle overnight the suction side and the compressed side
should be the same. So, when I measure the suction side at
startup and it shows 50 psi that means the compressed side
is also (temporarily) at 50. As the suction side pressure
decreases the compressed side increases.

So, if I measured pressure on the suction side in Jult after
it has sat idle all night it and it starts out being 30psi,
do tell why in August it will suddenly be reading 50psi on
the same suction side at start up?

As I said, it IS a closed system. If the system has been off for a
sufficient period the entire system should be the same pressure as the
refrigerant will be the same temperature throughout the system.

Then you start the system and the compressor sucks on one side and
blows on the other as it is a closed system why aren't the two sides
of the system still at the same pressure?

I fear you may suffer from reading comprehension problems, Bruce.

I understand what you just typed and the problem has nothing to
do with a system that's running and everything to do with a
system that has been turned off for the night.

In the morning, before starting, when the system is stabilized
so that suction side pressure equals compression side pressure
This is what I read on the suction side (i.e. it will be the
same on the compressed side).

July 38 psi
August 45 psi (so I let out five psi)
Sept. 60 psi (so I the let out 20 psi)

In other words, even though I let out pressure because
it gets so high that the compressor, when started for
the first time in the morning, cycles off and on because
of the high pressure cut-out circuit. That's why I have
to let out pressure so it will get about the business
of refrigerating.

So where does the excess pressure come from? And, don't
say water vapor as there will be no steam even if there
is water vapor when the system is cool and stabilized
in the morning.

--
Sir Gregory

In the morning, before starting, when the system is stabilized
so that suction side pressure equals compression side pressure
This is what I read on the suction side (i.e. it will be the
same on the compressed side).

Why do you assume that each side of the system is the same? You've got a
pressure gauge on one side. Your problem is consistent with the high
readings that you have. Do you really have any idea what the pressure is on
the other side?
I'd consider that the refrigerant is contaminated. Go through the
cleaning process, pressure test and replace the refrigerant. If the problem
comes back suspect a leak or a bad compressor.
Hope it turns out to be an easy fix.

Dave M.

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 15:28:37 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 07:34:51 +0700, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:38:12 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 19:08:56 +0700, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:14:32 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

I can't figure it out. I keep having to let refrigerant out
of my Adler Barbour. It runs great with the suction-side
pressure set at 15 psi. But, every month or so it will
commence to cycle off and on after being off for the night.

I put a gauge on it and the suction side pressure is in the
beginning of the red range(55 psi). It turns on and the
compressor starts compressing, the pressure starts going
down but it only gets to about 45 psi until the compressor
*clicks off* and the voltage gauge goes up a volt or two
because the load comes off the circuit.

Then it turns itself off and back on and the compressor
starts to compress again and the pressure goes down to about
45 psi, then it cycles off again.

So, I let out some pressure until it only starts out around
45 psi and it will finally keep compressing until it draws
down the suction side to about 15 psi where it stabilizes.

So where does the extra pressure come from. I've had to
let out ten pounds of pressure about half a dozen times
this summer. I can understand leaks but this is ridiculous!

You have a closed system connected to a compressor. One side to the
suction side and the other to the pressure side. Think why the suction
side would be at a higher pressure, or conversely, why the low
pressure side is at a lower pressure in a properly operating system.

Since the two sides are able to equalize when the compressor
sits idle overnight the suction side and the compressed side
should be the same. So, when I measure the suction side at
startup and it shows 50 psi that means the compressed side
is also (temporarily) at 50. As the suction side pressure
decreases the compressed side increases.

So, if I measured pressure on the suction side in Jult after
it has sat idle all night it and it starts out being 30psi,
do tell why in August it will suddenly be reading 50psi on
the same suction side at start up?

As I said, it IS a closed system. If the system has been off for a
sufficient period the entire system should be the same pressure as the
refrigerant will be the same temperature throughout the system.

Then you start the system and the compressor sucks on one side and
blows on the other as it is a closed system why aren't the two sides
of the system still at the same pressure?

I fear you may suffer from reading comprehension problems, Bruce.

I understand what you just typed and the problem has nothing to
do with a system that's running and everything to do with a
system that has been turned off for the night.

In the morning, before starting, when the system is stabilized
so that suction side pressure equals compression side pressure
This is what I read on the suction side (i.e. it will be the
same on the compressed side).

July 38 psi
August 45 psi (so I let out five psi)
Sept. 60 psi (so I the let out 20 psi)

In other words, even though I let out pressure because
it gets so high that the compressor, when started for
the first time in the morning, cycles off and on because
of the high pressure cut-out circuit. That's why I have
to let out pressure so it will get about the business
of refrigerating.

So where does the excess pressure come from? And, don't
say water vapor as there will be no steam even if there
is water vapor when the system is cool and stabilized
in the morning.

I've been trying to get you to reason rather then just bitch and moan.
Think about why a totally closed system might have a significantly
different pressure for the suction and pressure sides of a compressor
when running and the same pressure on each side when the system is
shut down for a while.

You seem to be saying that your stabilized system pressure is high....
Have you checked the temperature of the system -- usually OAT and
looked at a temperature - pressure table to be sure that it isn't a
temperature problem?
--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 3:14:32 PM UTC-4, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
I can't figure it out. I keep having to let refrigerant out of my Adler Barbour. It runs great with the suction-side pressure set at 15 psi. But, every month or so it will commence to cycle off and on after being off for the night. I put a gauge on it and the suction side pressure is in the beginning of the red range(55 psi). It turns on and the compressor starts compressing, the pressure starts going down but it only gets to about 45 psi until the compressor *clicks off* and the voltage gauge goes up a volt or two because the load comes off the circuit. Then it turns itself off and back on and the compressor starts to compress again and the pressure goes down to about 45 psi, then it cycles off again. So, I let out some pressure until it only starts out around 45 psi and it will finally keep compressing until it draws down the suction side to about 15 psi where it stabilizes. So where does the extra pressure come from. I've had to let out ten pounds of pressure about half a dozen times this summer. I can understand leaks but this is ridiculous! -- Sir Gregory

An Adler Barbour old fixed speed or new variable speed CU models are serviced with 80 to 120 grams of refrigerant. Trying to determine correct refrigerant charge when compressor is not running is of no value as ambient temperatures of complete system are likely never going to be the same pressure.

The important indicators of an AB refrigeration unit's performance is how much amperage it is drawing, frost covering of evaporator and no frost on return line towards compressor.

Once a servicing gauge is connected to one of these very small systems the chances are the refrigerant's purity is probably compromised. If refrigerant is still pure suction pressure will after 20 minutes compressor running time will read 6 to 8 psi for 134a refrigerant and 8 to 11 psi for R12 refrigerant. If thermostat is set for refrigerator temperatures many hours later suction pressure will be the same or a few psi lower if evaporator is very cold.

Once low pressure is correct and frost coverage and amperage is not correct you will know there is a problem with condenser cooling or contaminated refrigerant. As Skip mentioned on another manufactures refrigerant flow problems can not be ruled out. Moisture freezing in refrigerant is possible if refrigerant is contaminated. It is unlikely that Skips problem with refrigerant flow will occur on an AB system.

There is a special section on Refrigerant Charging on my web site covering Adler Barbour Danfoss BD compressors.

On Mon, 6 Oct 2014 07:40:33 -0700 (PDT), Richard Kollmann
wrote:

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 3:14:32 PM UTC-4, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
I can't figure it out. I keep having to let refrigerant out of my Adler Barbour. It runs great with the suction-side pressure set at 15 psi. But, every month or so it will commence to cycle off and on after being off for the night. I put a gauge on it and the suction side pressure is in the beginning of the red range(55 psi). It turns on and the compressor starts compressing, the pressure starts going down but it only gets to about 45 psi until the compressor *clicks off* and the voltage gauge goes up a volt or two because the load comes off the circuit. Then it turns itself off and back on and the compressor starts to compress again and the pressure goes down to about 45 psi, then it cycles off again. So, I let out some pressure until it only starts out around 45 psi and it will finally keep compressing until it draws down the suction side to about 15 psi where it stabilizes. So where does the extra pressure come from. I've had to let out ten pounds of pressure about half a dozen
times this summer. I can understand leaks but this is ridiculous! -- Sir Gregory

An Adler Barbour old fixed speed or new variable speed CU models are serviced with 80 to 120 grams of refrigerant. Trying to determine correct refrigerant charge when compressor is not running is of no value as ambient temperatures of complete system are likely never going to be the same pressure.

The important indicators of an AB refrigeration unit's performance is how much amperage it is drawing, frost covering of evaporator and no frost on return line towards compressor.

Once a servicing gauge is connected to one of these very small systems the chances are the refrigerant's purity is probably compromised. If refrigerant is still pure suction pressure will after 20 minutes compressor running time will read 6 to 8 psi for 134a refrigerant and 8 to 11 psi for R12 refrigerant. If thermostat is set for refrigerator temperatures many hours later suction pressure will be the same or a few psi lower if evaporator is very cold.

Once low pressure is correct and frost coverage and amperage is not correct you will know there is a problem with condenser cooling or contaminated refrigerant. As Skip mentioned on another manufactures refrigerant flow problems can not be ruled out. Moisture freezing in refrigerant is possible if refrigerant is contaminated. It is unlikely that Skips problem with refrigerant flow will occur on an AB system.

There is a special section on Refrigerant Charging on my web site covering Adler Barbour Danfoss BD compressors.



Thanks, I might just have to try vacuuming the damned thing out and
putting new r134a into it. It could be that it gets a blockage from
time to time which could conceivably drive up the suction pressure
so high that the high pressure cut-off switch cuts in.

I know somebody who has a vacuum pump I can borrow. I suppose a little
water vapor in the system could wreak havoc. I tend to be sloppy with
connecting the little can of r134a and I never even thought about
purging the supply hose.

--
Sir Gregory

On Mon, 6 Oct 2014 07:40:33 -0700 (PDT), Richard Kollmann
wrote:



There is a special section on Refrigerant Charging on my web site covering Adler Barbour Danfoss BD compressors.


Link please.