LOL Doodles, I hate using the term incompetent, but YOU are not only
incompetent in 99% of your response's content on any given subject
"maritime", but YOU are totally incompetent when it comes to "ass drag"
responses ......

otn


JAXAshby wrote:
over the knee *finally* tells one and all that his posts over the years have no
value except as beer drinking conversation thusly:

over the knee, you are drunk. still, or again?



From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/24/2004 8:59 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: et

LOL Doodles, I hate using the term incompetent, but YOU are not only
incompetent in 99% of your response's content on any given subject
"maritime", but YOU are totally incompetent when it comes to "ass drag"
responses ......

otn


JAXAshby wrote:
over the knee *finally* tells one and all that his posts over the years
have no
value except as beer drinking conversation thusly:

JAXAshby wrote:
over the knee, you are drunk. still, or again?

Keeristmas, what a stupid attempt..... later Doodles

Jaxie, you've "claimed" the CG and Corps have told you there are no
locks, but you've failed to find any reference to it on the Web. The
Corps, in fact, has had no involvement with the facility, so there is no
reason why the would ever mention it - proving you just made this up!

Numerous references have been given to a variety of sites that describe
the locks. For the third time, here's the Coast Pilot:

http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/nsd/c...-33ed-Ch10.pdf

Chart 12352
10) Shinnecock Canal, 31.5 miles southwestward of
Montauk Point, is about 1 mile long and connects
Great Peconic Bay with Shinnecock Bay. The canal is
owned and maintained by Suffolk County of New York.
It is a partly dredged cut and is protected at the north
entrance by two jetties; the east jetty is marked by a
light. In April 1985, the east timber jetty was reported
to be deteriorating. Protruding timbers and floating
debris may be encountered; caution is advised. A lock
about midway in the canal is 250 feet long, 41 feet wide,
with a depth of 12 feet over the sills. Tide gates are par-
allel to and westward of the lock. The lock gates and
tide gates are constructed so that tidal action opens
them to allow the current to set south through the
canal and closes them to prevent water from
Shinnecock Bay to flow back into Great Peconic Bay.
The lock gates are tended 24 hours and are opened me-
chanically when the tidal current is flowing northward
to allow the passage of boats. Red and green traffic lights
are at each end of the lock. Vessels are allowed to
enter the lock only on the green signal.
11) The fixed bridges and overhead power cables across
the canal have a least clearance of 22 feet. Mast-step-
ping cranes are available at both ends of the canal.



However, since jaxie doesn't believe the Coast Pilot, here's a
photograph from Google Keyhole service. You can download a demo version
- its a very slick program that allows zooming in anywhere.
www.keyhole.com
This picture clearly show the tide gates to the west and the lock to the
east. Of course, the northern gate is open - its is common for one gate
to be open - but it shows quite clearly on the picture.

http://www.sv-loki.com/shinnecock.jpg

Its pretty clear that if jaxie ever went through this canal (and that is
doubtful) he was so terrified of going through the tide gates that he
didn't notice the lock just to the East.




JAXAshby wrote:
try the Corps of Engs and the CG, and ask for the defintion of a "lock" as to
function, and then the definition of a "gate" as to function.

of course, to Lunnies, it is made of green cheese.

geesh, guys. the damned thing is open most of the time and often is not closed
at all for extended periods of time. go down there and watch the frickin'
water flow **IN**to Peconic Bay (because the damned gate is not closed) and
then **OUT** to Hampton Bay (because that is the way it is supposed to work and
then **IN**to Peconic ....


From: (Robert Gainer)
Date: 11/24/2004 4:54 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

(JAXAshby) wrote in message
...

Been there. It's a lock.

Been there. It's a gate.

The difference is I know the difference.

Check this out,
http://www.boatli.org/locks.htm

They say it's a lock

http://www.town.southampton.ny.us/about.ihtml

The town says it's a lock

http://www.history.rochester.edu/can...06/Chap12.html

This history book says it's a lock and gives the size

The locks to be 22 feet wide, and 90 feet long between gates. . . .

http://www.americancanals.org/progress.htm

And of course the American Canal Organization says it's a lock and
they might have some experience at this.

I found many more references that say it's a lock and did not find one
that said it's a gate.
So I would say that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and
looks like a duck, it might just be a duck.
All the best,
Robert Gainer

jeffies, give it up. the damned thing is a gate, as described by both theCG
and the C of Eng. Whats more, *IF* you had ever seen the thing *OR* talked
with anyone who works adjacent to the canal you would know (well maybe not you,
jeffies, but the person of at least high two digit or more IQ would know) that
the damned gate if often left open for extended periods of time, totally
negating its intended purpose of limiting the flow of seawater in Peconic Bay.

Get your wife to drive you down there, jeffies, and take a look at the thing,
and maybe talk with those who work close by and/or regularly use the canal.

what a dumb cluck you are.

From: Jeff Morris
Date: 11/25/2004 12:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Jaxie, you've "claimed" the CG and Corps have told you there are no
locks, but you've failed to find any reference to it on the Web. The
Corps, in fact, has had no involvement with the facility, so there is no
reason why the would ever mention it - proving you just made this up!

Numerous references have been given to a variety of sites that describe
the locks. For the third time, here's the Coast Pilot:

http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/nsd/c...-33ed-Ch10.pdf

Chart 12352
10) Shinnecock Canal, 31.5 miles southwestward of
Montauk Point, is about 1 mile long and connects
Great Peconic Bay with Shinnecock Bay. The canal is
owned and maintained by Suffolk County of New York.
It is a partly dredged cut and is protected at the north
entrance by two jetties; the east jetty is marked by a
light. In April 1985, the east timber jetty was reported
to be deteriorating. Protruding timbers and floating
debris may be encountered; caution is advised. A lock
about midway in the canal is 250 feet long, 41 feet wide,
with a depth of 12 feet over the sills. Tide gates are par-
allel to and westward of the lock. The lock gates and
tide gates are constructed so that tidal action opens
them to allow the current to set south through the
canal and closes them to prevent water from
Shinnecock Bay to flow back into Great Peconic Bay.
The lock gates are tended 24 hours and are opened me-
chanically when the tidal current is flowing northward
to allow the passage of boats. Red and green traffic lights
are at each end of the lock. Vessels are allowed to
enter the lock only on the green signal.
11) The fixed bridges and overhead power cables across
the canal have a least clearance of 22 feet. Mast-step-
ping cranes are available at both ends of the canal.



However, since jaxie doesn't believe the Coast Pilot, here's a
photograph from Google Keyhole service. You can download a demo version
- its a very slick program that allows zooming in anywhere.
www.keyhole.com
This picture clearly show the tide gates to the west and the lock to the
east. Of course, the northern gate is open - its is common for one gate
to be open - but it shows quite clearly on the picture.

http://www.sv-loki.com/shinnecock.jpg

Its pretty clear that if jaxie ever went through this canal (and that is
doubtful) he was so terrified of going through the tide gates that he
didn't notice the lock just to the East.




JAXAshby wrote:
try the Corps of Engs and the CG, and ask for the defintion of a "lock" as
to
function, and then the definition of a "gate" as to function.

of course, to Lunnies, it is made of green cheese.

geesh, guys. the damned thing is open most of the time and often is not
closed
at all for extended periods of time. go down there and watch the frickin'
water flow **IN**to Peconic Bay (because the damned gate is not closed) and
then **OUT** to Hampton Bay (because that is the way it is supposed to work
and
then **IN**to Peconic ....


From: (Robert Gainer)
Date: 11/24/2004 4:54 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

(JAXAshby) wrote in message
...

Been there. It's a lock.

Been there. It's a gate.

The difference is I know the difference.

Check this out,
http://www.boatli.org/locks.htm

They say it's a lock

http://www.town.southampton.ny.us/about.ihtml

The town says it's a lock

http://www.history.rochester.edu/can...06/Chap12.html

This history book says it's a lock and gives the size

The locks to be 22 feet wide, and 90 feet long between gates. . . .

http://www.americancanals.org/progress.htm

And of course the American Canal Organization says it's a lock and
they might have some experience at this.

I found many more references that say it's a lock and did not find one
that said it's a gate.
So I would say that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and
looks like a duck, it might just be a duck.
All the best,
Robert Gainer

JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies, give it up. the damned thing is a gate, as described by both theCG
and the C of Eng.


Where do they say that, jaxie? In a dream you had? Certainly not on
the internet or in any publication! And what involvement does the Corps
of Eng have with it? You made this up and now you're lying because
you're too much of a coward to admit your blunder.


Whats more, *IF* you had ever seen the thing *OR* talked
with anyone who works adjacent to the canal you would know (well maybe not you,
jeffies, but the person of at least high two digit or more IQ would know) that
the damned gate if often left open for extended periods of time, totally
negating its intended purpose of limiting the flow of seawater in Peconic Bay.

We can all look at it Jaxie. Here's a pictu

http://www.sv-loki.com/shinnecock.jpg

Can you possibly claim this is not a lock?

As for "negating the purpose" there has been discussion about revering
the gates to allow more sea water into Peconic bay. But regardless,
that's a lock next to the tide gates. Only an idiot would claim otherwise.

jeffies, a gate is used to impede fluid flow. a lock uses two gates to move a
boat from a body of water at one level to a body of water at another level.
jeffies, I know this is hard for you to understand, so ask your wife to help
you out here, but the Peconic Bay and Hampton Bay are tidal waters. Same
tides, same moon. the gates are there to impede the flow of tidal water from
Hampton Bay ***to*** Peconic Bay (which is less salty because of river flow).
the gates are often not closed and HB water flows freely into RB. I have seen
the gates open and have seen HB water flowing towards PB at what seemed to be
about 4 knots. I have also seen the gates open with PB water flowing towards
HB at what seemed to be about 4 knots. I have also talked with employees of
the marina on the canal who stated flatly that the gates were often open for
extended periods of time.

that ain't a lock, jeffies, it is a gate. Different purposes for either. The
CG and C of Eng know the difference even if you don't jeffies.

kriste but it is tough trying to talk with 80 IQ idiots.



From: Jeff Morris
Date: 11/25/2004 10:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies, give it up. the damned thing is a gate, as described by both
theCG
and the C of Eng.


Where do they say that, jaxie? In a dream you had? Certainly not on
the internet or in any publication! And what involvement does the Corps
of Eng have with it? You made this up and now you're lying because
you're too much of a coward to admit your blunder.


Whats more, *IF* you had ever seen the thing *OR* talked
with anyone who works adjacent to the canal you would know (well maybe not
you,
jeffies, but the person of at least high two digit or more IQ would know)
that
the damned gate if often left open for extended periods of time, totally
negating its intended purpose of limiting the flow of seawater in Peconic
Bay.

We can all look at it Jaxie. Here's a pictu

http://www.sv-loki.com/shinnecock.jpg

Can you possibly claim this is not a lock?

As for "negating the purpose" there has been discussion about revering
the gates to allow more sea water into Peconic bay. But regardless,
that's a lock next to the tide gates. Only an idiot would claim otherwise.

I would not be surprised if the gates are, at times left open in both
directions. As I've said, there has been talk reversing the gates to
allow better flushing of the bay:
http://www.savethepeconicbays.org/cc.../appendixl.doc
However, the lock tender didn't mention this when I talked to him about
the lock.

I don't think the "reversal" was done at the recent refit of the lock
gates. Note that this was a refit of the "lock gates," not the "tide
gates" nearby. They even have a picture of the lock:
http://jmoa.com/structural/portfolio.asp?ID=139

I did find one mention of the canal in a Corps of Eng report. They say:
"This canal has a tidal gate, allowing water to enter Shinnecock Bay but
not leave it." I guess you talked to a different Corps of Engineers.
http://cirp.wes.army.mil/cirp/cetns/chetn-iv42.pdf

The issue is not whether the lock is, on occasion, left open. You have
claimed many times that there is no lock, and there is only a tide gate.
However, the picture is pretty clear and proves not only that you're
wrong, but that you've never actually been there and you've been lying
about this since the beginning.

http://www.sv-loki.com/shinnecock.jpg







JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies, a gate is used to impede fluid flow. a lock uses two gates to move a
boat from a body of water at one level to a body of water at another level.
jeffies, I know this is hard for you to understand, so ask your wife to help
you out here, but the Peconic Bay and Hampton Bay are tidal waters. Same
tides, same moon. the gates are there to impede the flow of tidal water from
Hampton Bay ***to*** Peconic Bay (which is less salty because of river flow).
the gates are often not closed and HB water flows freely into RB. I have seen
the gates open and have seen HB water flowing towards PB at what seemed to be
about 4 knots. I have also seen the gates open with PB water flowing towards
HB at what seemed to be about 4 knots. I have also talked with employees of
the marina on the canal who stated flatly that the gates were often open for
extended periods of time.

that ain't a lock, jeffies, it is a gate. Different purposes for either. The
CG and C of Eng know the difference even if you don't jeffies.

kriste but it is tough trying to talk with 80 IQ idiots.




From: Jeff Morris
Date: 11/25/2004 10:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby wrote:

jeffies, give it up. the damned thing is a gate, as described by both

theCG

and the C of Eng.


Where do they say that, jaxie? In a dream you had? Certainly not on
the internet or in any publication! And what involvement does the Corps
of Eng have with it? You made this up and now you're lying because
you're too much of a coward to admit your blunder.



Whats more, *IF* you had ever seen the thing *OR* talked
with anyone who works adjacent to the canal you would know (well maybe not

you,

jeffies, but the person of at least high two digit or more IQ would know)

that

the damned gate if often left open for extended periods of time, totally
negating its intended purpose of limiting the flow of seawater in Peconic

Bay.

We can all look at it Jaxie. Here's a pictu

http://www.sv-loki.com/shinnecock.jpg

Can you possibly claim this is not a lock?

As for "negating the purpose" there has been discussion about revering
the gates to allow more sea water into Peconic bay. But regardless,
that's a lock next to the tide gates. Only an idiot would claim otherwise.

jeffie, your post below shows clearly just to what lengths you will go to
ignore ALL reality to keep your erroneous first thoughts in place. you admit
you have been shown the dictionary meanings of the words, you admit you
understand that there is no difference in water levels, you admit the gates are
often left open, you admit, the purpose of the gates was and is to prevent
saltier Hampton Bay water from entering Peconic Bay, you admit the CG says the
thing is is gate not a lock, BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT you still insist it is
lock because ********you****** looked at a picture and *******you******** can't
imagine anything with two gates that can not be a lock.

Kriste almighty, jeffies, just how is anyone going to transit the canal when
the gate is closed without opening it????????????????????? THEN you have to
have two (2) gates, otherwise the water would flow into Peconic Bay when you
opened the gate. Duh.

jeffies, sometime when you post such stew ped stuff I think you are doing it
just to be a contentious turd. Other times, I think you really don't
understand.

From: Jeff Morris
Date: 11/26/2004 8:41 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I would not be surprised if the gates are, at times left open in both
directions. As I've said, there has been talk reversing the gates to
allow better flushing of the bay:
http://www.savethepeconicbays.org/cc.../appendixl.doc
However, the lock tender didn't mention this when I talked to him about
the lock.

I don't think the "reversal" was done at the recent refit of the lock
gates. Note that this was a refit of the "lock gates," not the "tide
gates" nearby. They even have a picture of the lock:
http://jmoa.com/structural/portfolio.asp?ID=139

I did find one mention of the canal in a Corps of Eng report. They say:
"This canal has a tidal gate, allowing water to enter Shinnecock Bay but
not leave it." I guess you talked to a different Corps of Engineers.
http://cirp.wes.army.mil/cirp/cetns/chetn-iv42.pdf

The issue is not whether the lock is, on occasion, left open. You have
claimed many times that there is no lock, and there is only a tide gate.
However, the picture is pretty clear and proves not only that you're
wrong, but that you've never actually been there and you've been lying
about this since the beginning.

http://www.sv-loki.com/shinnecock.jpg







JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies, a gate is used to impede fluid flow. a lock uses two gates to
move a
boat from a body of water at one level to a body of water at another level.

jeffies, I know this is hard for you to understand, so ask your wife to
help
you out here, but the Peconic Bay and Hampton Bay are tidal waters. Same
tides, same moon. the gates are there to impede the flow of tidal water
from
Hampton Bay ***to*** Peconic Bay (which is less salty because of river
flow).
the gates are often not closed and HB water flows freely into RB. I have
seen
the gates open and have seen HB water flowing towards PB at what seemed to
be
about 4 knots. I have also seen the gates open with PB water flowing
towards
HB at what seemed to be about 4 knots. I have also talked with employees
of
the marina on the canal who stated flatly that the gates were often open
for
extended periods of time.

that ain't a lock, jeffies, it is a gate. Different purposes for either.
The
CG and C of Eng know the difference even if you don't jeffies.

kriste but it is tough trying to talk with 80 IQ idiots.




From: Jeff Morris
Date: 11/25/2004 10:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby wrote:

jeffies, give it up. the damned thing is a gate, as described by both

theCG

and the C of Eng.


Where do they say that, jaxie? In a dream you had? Certainly not on
the internet or in any publication! And what involvement does the Corps
of Eng have with it? You made this up and now you're lying because
you're too much of a coward to admit your blunder.



Whats more, *IF* you had ever seen the thing *OR* talked
with anyone who works adjacent to the canal you would know (well maybe not

you,

jeffies, but the person of at least high two digit or more IQ would know)

that

the damned gate if often left open for extended periods of time, totally
negating its intended purpose of limiting the flow of seawater in Peconic

Bay.

We can all look at it Jaxie. Here's a pictu

http://www.sv-loki.com/shinnecock.jpg

Can you possibly claim this is not a lock?

As for "negating the purpose" there has been discussion about revering
the gates to allow more sea water into Peconic bay. But regardless,
that's a lock next to the tide gates. Only an idiot would claim otherwise.

Gawd Jaxie, what a blatant liar you are! Have you no shame??? Have
you ever told the truth about anything?


JAXAshby wrote:
jeffie, your post below shows clearly just to what lengths you will go to
ignore ALL reality to keep your erroneous first thoughts in place. you admit
you have been shown the dictionary meanings of the words, you admit you
understand that there is no difference in water levels,

A lie - The tide tables are pretty clear there is a significant
difference in the tide levels between the two bays. I pointed this out
early on - you seemed to claim this was impossible, but the tables don't
lie. This is just one of the many instances where you have shown your
complete ignorance of things nautical.

you admit the gates are often left open,

Another lie - I only said that I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
You provided no evidence it does, other than your claim, which is worthless.

Of course, the lock gates were designed to automatically open when the
current runs south - I pointed that out in my first post.

you admit, the purpose of the gates was and is to prevent
saltier Hampton Bay water from entering Peconic Bay,

Another lie - I never mentioned the original purpose of the facility,
only how the Coast Pilot says they operate now. The gates and lock were
built before a Hurricane (1938?) opened Shinnecock Inlet so the
conditions have changed. The lock, BTW, was added years after the
original tide gates were built.

you admit the CG says the
thing is is gate not a lock,

Another lie - I have found no mention of the facility from the CG. You
have made this claim, but you obviously made it up. The Coast Pilot,
published by the Office of Coast Survey under NOAA is quite clear there
are tide gates and a lock.

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT you still insist it is
lock because ********you****** looked at a picture and *******you******** can't
imagine anything with two gates that can not be a lock.

I call it a lock because it is a lock. NOAA calls it a lock. The Corps
of Eng calls it a lock. The company that repaired it recently calls it
a lock. The agency that owns and maintains it calls it a lock. The
lock tender that runs it calls is a lock. Numerous reports describe it
as a lock. Several reports of transit describe it functioning as a
lock. All of this is from published sites I've provided. And a picture
of it clearly shows its a lock:

http://www.sv-loki.com/shinnecock.jpg

The only thing that is different about it is that the gates are designed
to stay open when the current runs south. And there are tide gates next
to the lock that open with the southerly current But I said that on
my very first post.



Kriste almighty, jeffies, just how is anyone going to transit the canal when
the gate is closed without opening it????????????????????? THEN you have to
have two (2) gates, otherwise the water would flow into Peconic Bay when you
opened the gate. Duh.

What? Are you claiming now that you don't know how a lock works?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! Are you claiming it can't be a lock because its
a chamber with with gates on both ends???

perhaps you should study this for a while, jaxie:
http://www.eriecanal.org/locks.html
or maybe:
http://www.haworth-village.org.uk/na...canal-lock.asp
This one has cuter pictures:
http://www.fodc.org/info/fodclock.htm

I knew there was a fundamental problem here - you have no idea how a
lock works!!! What a bozo you are, jaxie!!!