I'm contemplating an early spring, west to east, trip the length of Lake
Erie to deliver a 32 foot sailboat. It's a reasonably capable boat. It was
designed for Caribbean sailing and sister ships have made trips such as from
Australia to England. I have a fair amount of ocean sailing experience but
I grew up near the shore of Lake Erie and heard the "It's much worse than
the ocean." comment many times.

Any informed and experienced opinions on early spring conditions would be
appreciated.

--

Roger Long

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 22:25:32 GMT, WaIIy
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 21:01:04 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I'm contemplating an early spring, west to east, trip the length of Lake
Erie to deliver a 32 foot sailboat. It's a reasonably capable boat. It was
designed for Caribbean sailing and sister ships have made trips such as from
Australia to England. I have a fair amount of ocean sailing experience but
I grew up near the shore of Lake Erie and heard the "It's much worse than
the ocean." comment many times.

I expect you will have little difficulty if you pick a reasonable
weather window with nothing threatening and the prevailing westerly
behind you. We delivered a 27 footer the length of the lake in October
with the wind rising from about 10 to 25 over the course of a 38 hour
run.

The whole lake is shallow and the waves tend to be close together and
square shaped. There will be more motion and more steering attention
required than you may be used to. There's very few places to run to on
the north side, so you may want to stay a little south if the weather
looks unsettled. The water will be very cold, with all the attendent
dangers.

I find it kind of entertaining that I have concerns the other way
round about ocean sailing, since most of my experience is from the
east end of Lake Ontario.

Ryk

"Roger Long" writes:

I'm contemplating an early spring, west to east, trip the length of Lake
Erie to deliver a 32 foot sailboat.
snip

I will give you the same advice I got about early spring sailing on L Erie
when I started sailing there.

DON'T even think about it until the water temp off the Cleveland water
intake crib reaches 50F.

Translation:

Don't plan on leaving before May 15, the earliest.

June 1 will not only be more comfortable, but safer.

If your customer insists on an earlier delivery, add $5,000 USD to the fee.

HTH

Lew

Roger Long wrote:
I'm contemplating an early spring, west to east, trip the length of Lake
Erie to deliver a 32 foot sailboat.

as a longtime commercial pilot who has observed Lake Erie from above I'd
say pay attention to the amount of ice formed this winter and the speed
of the breakup

depending on the severity of the winter over the past 25 years I have
seen _many_ square kilometers of pack ice as late as early June that
have rendered the far east end of the lake unpassable as the ice, driven
by the prevailing westerlies, piles up against the ice boom placed at
the entry to the Niagara River

"prodigal1" writes:

depending on the severity of the winter over the past 25 years I have
seen _many_ square kilometers of pack ice as late as early June that
have rendered the far east end of the lake unpassable as the ice, driven
by the prevailing westerlies, piles up against the ice boom placed at
the entry to the Niagara River

Sage advice.

Also included in that ice are tree trunks that have come loose over the
winter and drifted down the Great lakes chain.

In the Pacific North West, they are called loggerheads.

On Lake Eire, the usual comment is Son-Of-A-Bitch, hope that f**ker didn't
hole the hull.

BTW, that boom across the river is there to protect the docks on the Black
Rock canal.

It's nice in that part of the country during July & August.

Been there, done that.

Lew

Thanks guys, this is finally getting to the solid advice I was looking for.
I'll probably have to do some of this trip in the dark and I would hate to
hit a chunk of left over ice or a tree trunk. Even in the daytime, it would
be hard to see either. I'll plan on early June or a longer trip.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
Thanks guys, this is finally getting to the solid advice I was looking for.
I'll probably have to do some of this trip in the dark and I would hate to
hit a chunk of left over ice or a tree trunk. Even in the daytime, it would
be hard to see either. I'll plan on early June or a longer trip.

I wanted to add that one of the hardest passages I've had (my wife would
say "worst," but I enjoyed it too much to say that) was crossing Lake
Ontario from Whitby to Oswego in early June. This was our first long
cruise (the mast was down at that point) in our new catamaran.

We had planned to do the 110 miles as an overnight, but a major front
blew through. We did plan "B" - leave at 5AM - and discovered a bit too
late that is was blowing 25+ knots and there was a short chop, 6 to 8
feet, with some 10 footers. It was downwind, so forging on was a better
option than turning back. The first 50 miles took less than 6 hours -
at times we were surfing up to 13 knots - but in the middle of the lake
both engines died. We never figured out whether it was a dirty tank
from construction, or bad fuel, but the anti-siphon valves were clogged.
Going back and forth between the engines I could keep one going at
half speed with the manual fuel pump, but it was mostly windage and
waves that brought us the rest of the way, still doing over 6 knots.

The valves got replaced in Oswego, and we learned that a boat the tried
to do the reverse trip had come back in after the mast lashed on deck
had broken free and had to be wrestled into submission!

The moral is don't assume that because these are "lakes" they are always
benign.

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 08:29:47 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:

The moral is don't assume that because these are "lakes" they are always
benign.

===================================

Absolutely right. The smaller great lakes like Erie and Ontario can
generate some ferocious short period waves, especially in shallower
water.

Here are a few things from my experience to add to what has been said.
You shouldn't make concrete plans for sailing on a particular day or
weekend in the spring or fall, but it would be unlikely that you will have 3
really bad weekends in a row. The weather on Lake Erie is nothing if not
variable and the forcasts are not real reliable beyond a day or two.
I would not skimp on weather exposure gear. The water is deadly cold in
the spring. I bought some real ugly bright orange fleece lined rubber gloves
that are just the ticket for helming when it is cold and wet. There are
some nasty shoals in the western end of the lake, so proper charts are a
must. I would not rule out spring or fall trips, but the only way I know is
to be ready and then wait for a window of opportunity.
We went from Port Stanley to Erieau and back on a 27 foot C&C in the
middle of October this year and had a great time. It was the Canadian
Thanksgiving weekend and I had wanted to go the previous 2 years, but did
not mainly due to weather. I have found that provisioning for hot food and
drinks while underway is a really good idea.

Here is a link for the Canadian forcast for western Lake Erie.
Take a look around the site, they have a fair bit of data.
There is ice information there, when there is ice, as well as current radar
for precipitation.
http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/marine...e_e.html?45132

This link is a U.S. text forcast that I use all the time as well.

http://weather.noaa.gov/pub/data/raw...cle.glf.le.txt


Steve Thomas,

on the north shore.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Long"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.cruising
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:27 AM
Subject: Would like Lake Erie reports


Thanks guys, this is finally getting to the solid advice I was looking
for.
I'll probably have to do some of this trip in the dark and I would hate to
hit a chunk of left over ice or a tree trunk. Even in the daytime, it
would
be hard to see either. I'll plan on early June or a longer trip.

--

Roger Long





"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Thanks guys, this is finally getting to the solid advice I was looking
for.
I'll probably have to do some of this trip in the dark and I would hate to
hit a chunk of left over ice or a tree trunk. Even in the daytime, it
would
be hard to see either. I'll plan on early June or a longer trip.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:

I'm contemplating an early spring, west to east, trip the length of Lake
Erie to deliver a 32 foot sailboat. It's a reasonably capable boat. It was
designed for Caribbean sailing and sister ships have made trips such as from
Australia to England. I have a fair amount of ocean sailing experience but
I grew up near the shore of Lake Erie and heard the "It's much worse than
the ocean." comment many times.

Any informed and experienced opinions on early spring conditions would be
appreciated.



On April 14, 1990 I brought CIRCE home to Grand Haven, MI from
Manitowoc, WI. We (crew of 5 on a 45ft steel sloop) had a delightful
trip. BUT I damn near killed a friend of mine - he slept against the
hull w/o enough sleeping bag, and the cold and pneumonia that followed
was long and deep. My son slept in a hammock & bag slung under the boom
and was fine except for the dew. Bottom line - The weather can be nice
early, but as your other responders point out don't set your plans that
time of year by the calendar. Perhaps half of the days will be suitable
for travel comfortably. For safety, night sailing might be a marginal
bet in a new boat with cold water and fast changing weather - even a bit
risky in unfamiliar rivers or channels.

Scanned your site, I suspect you will love your find. Select your
delivery crew with both strong back and wise seamanship in mind? Just
did a 600mi delivery late summer down Superior and Michigan sailing
sorta 24/7 on a 32 (stopped 16hr for R&R at Mackinaw Island) with a
5-crew. Again a great time, but we needed to hide in a gunk hole when
the seas kicked up and it became uncomfortable. Too, could would have
lost a crew overboard except for the harness - still, she was sore after
being thrown on the lifeline and winch by a "rouge" while switching off
at the helm. Do the jack-line trick.

The great lakes water is low Feb / high July - driven by evaporation
mostly. But this is small annual change on top of larger 7 to 11 year
cycles. We have seen low water for a few years now so ports with
shallow entrances are at their worst. Where there is commercial traffic
there is plenty of water for pleasure boats (save at some docks). I did
the Oswego and Erie in the mid '90s with a 4-crew nicely on a 44 ketch.
Make SURE you lash the mast well, it's like the inter coastal getting
past big-fast-boat-wakes. I'd be interested to hear how much water
there is in the canal after you make the trip - I may do the same late
next year in CIRCE and I need 6-1/2ft(-).

Summing up: Allow yourself 25% more time than you might in mid summer.
Bring more warm clothing than you believe you can use - especially good
foulies and safety gear. Enjoy the adventure...