I can't believe that "Navigating with grains of salt" thread I started
is still going on. I feel like I'm in a Road Runner cartoon watching
two little dust clouds vanish over the horizon. Do you think those
guys will ever give up?

I was amused to have someone post and email me privately asking if I
would pass on my "special knowledge". I was even more amused when a
second post from the same fellow revealed that he's probably done more
serious piloting and navigating than I have. Duffing around in Maine
is actually pretty easy. There are so many hazards that they serve as
navigation aids and the coast is so complex that you can almost always
find an alternative route out if you misjudge something.

Meanwhile, the road runner and the coyote, who do appear to have Ph.D.
level knowledge compared to my navigational high school GED, just keep
going and going and going..

It did make me realize though that there are some readers of this
group that are new to all this so I'll pass on a bit of very basic
stuff that I haven't seen well covered in any of the texts I've read.
It was the cause of my closest calls when I first started sailing and
an almost universal problem among my sailing students. I haven't paid
much attention to anything written about piloting in over 20 years so
forgive me if it is now obvious.

The simple process of sailing straight towards an objective is a lot
more error prone than new sailors realize. Tell nine out of ten new
helmsman to, "sail straight towards that buoy", and they will line the
stemhead up with the objective. Since you sit to one side in a
sailboat, the geometry will cause your course to be a curve as the
relative angles change. If you are in a channel or have plotted a
course close by a shoal area, this can get you in trouble.

The first lesson is to have them sight along the centerline and see
how far off their aim point is. The companionway edge on most
sailboats is a very convenient sight. Show them how to pick another
landmark on the bow, such as a lifeline stanchion, that is parallel
with their eye along the centerline.

Next is the concept of maintaining a constant compass bearing towards
the objective. Again, this only works if the boat is actually pointed
where you think it is. To hold a precise course without the track line
in a magic box, you may need a very good compass bearing. A brief
squint along the companionway edge, which may require a brief heading
change in a sailboat or when there is current, will give you the most
precise bearing you can get.

When heading towards buoys, islands, or other marks in coastal waters,
there will usually be something visible beyond. A primary skill that
must be drilled in until it is unshakable habit, is to look at the
land beyond when sailing towards a mark. When you first establish the
course, pick the landmark that lines up with it and then adjust your
heading so that it always remains in line. Then leeway or current can
not be setting you off your intended track.

In 36 years of sailing I've never run hard and unexpectedly aground
but, almost every time I was startled by the sight of a swirl of water
or flash of weed and ledge I didn't expect, it was because I was still
learning these simple concepts.

--

Roger Long

Roger, before Christmas, I think you posted a address to see your log
about taking the boat from point A to Maine or Vice Versa...I may be
dreaming about the subject matter but would appreciate your posting
that address again.
I have a friend , recently retired, who is "thinking" about purchasing
a sailboat and living on it in the winter months in Florida or perhaps
the Texas coast....Making a short story long I guess but reading your
posts have been very informative and I would like to pass your info to
him.
They do not read newsgroups per se but may be attracted to them after
reading your info.
thanks.

--
jtc

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I can't believe that "Navigating with grains of salt" thread I
started is still going on. I feel like I'm in a Road Runner cartoon
watching two little dust clouds vanish over the horizon. Do you think
those guys will ever give up?

I was amused to have someone post and email me privately asking if I
would pass on my "special knowledge". I was even more amused when a
second post from the same fellow revealed that he's probably done
more serious piloting and navigating than I have. Duffing around in
Maine is actually pretty easy. There are so many hazards that they
serve as navigation aids and the coast is so complex that you can
almost always find an alternative route out if you misjudge
something.

Meanwhile, the road runner and the coyote, who do appear to have
Ph.D. level knowledge compared to my navigational high school GED,
just keep going and going and going..

It did make me realize though that there are some readers of this
group that are new to all this so I'll pass on a bit of very basic
stuff that I haven't seen well covered in any of the texts I've
read. It was the cause of my closest calls when I first started
sailing and an almost universal problem among my sailing students. I
haven't paid much attention to anything written about piloting in
over 20 years so forgive me if it is now obvious.

The simple process of sailing straight towards an objective is a lot
more error prone than new sailors realize. Tell nine out of ten new
helmsman to, "sail straight towards that buoy", and they will line
the stemhead up with the objective. Since you sit to one side in a
sailboat, the geometry will cause your course to be a curve as the
relative angles change. If you are in a channel or have plotted a
course close by a shoal area, this can get you in trouble.

The first lesson is to have them sight along the centerline and see
how far off their aim point is. The companionway edge on most
sailboats is a very convenient sight. Show them how to pick another
landmark on the bow, such as a lifeline stanchion, that is parallel
with their eye along the centerline.

Next is the concept of maintaining a constant compass bearing
towards the objective. Again, this only works if the boat is
actually pointed where you think it is. To hold a precise course
without the track line in a magic box, you may need a very good
compass bearing. A brief squint along the companionway edge, which
may require a brief heading change in a sailboat or when there is
current, will give you the most precise bearing you can get.

When heading towards buoys, islands, or other marks in coastal
waters, there will usually be something visible beyond. A primary
skill that must be drilled in until it is unshakable habit, is to
look at the land beyond when sailing towards a mark. When you first
establish the course, pick the landmark that lines up with it and
then adjust your heading so that it always remains in line. Then
leeway or current can not be setting you off your intended track.

In 36 years of sailing I've never run hard and unexpectedly aground
but, almost every time I was startled by the sight of a swirl of
water or flash of weed and ledge I didn't expect, it was because I
was still learning these simple concepts.

--

Roger Long

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat.htm

We've actually decided to do the unromantic thing and have it trucked.
My new (part time in theory) job as Harbormaster turns out to be a
huge clean up task and time is going to be short in spring and early
summer. It also means having the boat here before school gets out so
I can get the bugs worked out and everything tuned up for more serious
sailing in Maine.

--

Roger Long



"jtc" wrote in message
ink.net...
Roger, before Christmas, I think you posted a address to see your
log about taking the boat from point A to Maine or Vice Versa...I
may be dreaming about the subject matter but would appreciate your
posting that address again.
I have a friend , recently retired, who is "thinking" about
purchasing a sailboat and living on it in the winter months in
Florida or perhaps the Texas coast....Making a short story long I
guess but reading your posts have been very informative and I would
like to pass your info to him.
They do not read newsgroups per se but may be attracted to them
after reading your info.
thanks.

--
jtc

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I can't believe that "Navigating with grains of salt" thread I
started is still going on. I feel like I'm in a Road Runner cartoon
watching two little dust clouds vanish over the horizon. Do you
think those guys will ever give up?

I was amused to have someone post and email me privately asking if
I would pass on my "special knowledge". I was even more amused when
a second post from the same fellow revealed that he's probably done
more serious piloting and navigating than I have. Duffing around in
Maine is actually pretty easy. There are so many hazards that they
serve as navigation aids and the coast is so complex that you can
almost always find an alternative route out if you misjudge
something.

Meanwhile, the road runner and the coyote, who do appear to have
Ph.D. level knowledge compared to my navigational high school GED,
just keep going and going and going..

It did make me realize though that there are some readers of this
group that are new to all this so I'll pass on a bit of very basic
stuff that I haven't seen well covered in any of the texts I've
read. It was the cause of my closest calls when I first started
sailing and an almost universal problem among my sailing students.
I haven't paid much attention to anything written about piloting in
over 20 years so forgive me if it is now obvious.

The simple process of sailing straight towards an objective is a
lot more error prone than new sailors realize. Tell nine out of ten
new helmsman to, "sail straight towards that buoy", and they will
line the stemhead up with the objective. Since you sit to one side
in a sailboat, the geometry will cause your course to be a curve as
the relative angles change. If you are in a channel or have plotted
a course close by a shoal area, this can get you in trouble.

The first lesson is to have them sight along the centerline and see
how far off their aim point is. The companionway edge on most
sailboats is a very convenient sight. Show them how to pick another
landmark on the bow, such as a lifeline stanchion, that is parallel
with their eye along the centerline.

Next is the concept of maintaining a constant compass bearing
towards the objective. Again, this only works if the boat is
actually pointed where you think it is. To hold a precise course
without the track line in a magic box, you may need a very good
compass bearing. A brief squint along the companionway edge, which
may require a brief heading change in a sailboat or when there is
current, will give you the most precise bearing you can get.

When heading towards buoys, islands, or other marks in coastal
waters, there will usually be something visible beyond. A primary
skill that must be drilled in until it is unshakable habit, is to
look at the land beyond when sailing towards a mark. When you first
establish the course, pick the landmark that lines up with it and
then adjust your heading so that it always remains in line. Then
leeway or current can not be setting you off your intended track.

In 36 years of sailing I've never run hard and unexpectedly aground
but, almost every time I was startled by the sight of a swirl of
water or flash of weed and ledge I didn't expect, it was because I
was still learning these simple concepts.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
I can't believe that "Navigating with grains of salt" thread I started
is still going on. I feel like I'm in a Road Runner cartoon watching
two little dust clouds vanish over the horizon. Do you think those
guys will ever give up?


Never! Not until Spring!

I appreciate your post. Good advice.

BTW, if you've never run aground you must have learned something about
navigation. Its been said only two types of sailors have never run
aground, beginners and liars. But those who say that have never sailed
Maine, where the consequences of grounding can be rather seve

http://www.cliffisland.com/boat.html

Oh, I've run aground plenty but it's always been when I knew I was
pushing into a tight area, was prepared to bump, knew the tide, and
what I would do if I touched.

I've been surprised by the bottom a couple of times. Once was just
after I'd picked up someone at a town dock somewhere downeast. It was
well inside the chart soundings resolution and who would have thought
it could be that shallow 20 feet from the dock? The tide was falling
and the fin keeler we'd charted was going to be the subject of great
amusement for the whole town. I exploded into action, completely
mystifying my crew who hadn't noticed the slight bump. Suddenly, they
were abandoned as I leapt into the dinghy, grabbed the anchor off the
foredeck, and rowed away. I took the rode around a halyard winch and
had us pulled off in short order.

The other time, I anchored in a small clear spot in Anisquam, MA in
plenty of water. I woke up in the middle of the night to find that
the Pearson 26 was completely on its side having gone over so gently
that I didn't wake up until the fact that I was lying on cold
fiberglass side instead of cushion brought me around. We were in six
inches of water. About five feet away was a dredged drop off. If
we'd gone the other way, the boat might have tipped all the way over
and broken the mast off going past vertical. The next morning, we
were floating as if nothing had happened. I learned to be a little
more skeptical when I find a clear spot in a crowded harbor.

I finally gave up taking the 22 foot catboat I used to sail across the
flats off Vineyard Haven. It was great fun skimming the big, two foot
draft boat across the sand and being able to clearly see the bottom
and the swirls of sand behind us. The problem was, someone would try
to follow us across almost every time and end up stuck fast. My
conscience got to me and I started going around whenever other boats
were nearby.

--

Roger Long



"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Roger Long wrote:
I can't believe that "Navigating with grains of salt" thread I
started is still going on. I feel like I'm in a Road Runner cartoon
watching two little dust clouds vanish over the horizon. Do you
think those guys will ever give up?


Never! Not until Spring!

I appreciate your post. Good advice.

BTW, if you've never run aground you must have learned something
about navigation. Its been said only two types of sailors have
never run aground, beginners and liars. But those who say that
have never sailed Maine, where the consequences of grounding can be
rather seve

http://www.cliffisland.com/boat.html

A previous message addressed going to Maine. I would like to state
that I have found Maine by DR alone, starting from the tip of Cape
Cod. It was right where I expected it to be.

I think it may still be there this year, when I try again with more
sophisticated gear. :-)



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Accordions don't play 'Lady of Spain.' People play 'Lady of Spain."

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:02:51 -0500, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:
A previous message addressed going to Maine. I would like to state
that I have found Maine by DR alone, starting from the tip of Cape
Cod. It was right where I expected it to be.

I think it may still be there this year, when I try again with more
sophisticated gear. :-)
====================================

Back in the 70s, pre-LORAN C, we used to DR from P-town to Maine on a
fairly regular basis. Plus or minus one mile after sailing 100 miles
was fairly typical but maybe we were lucky. That one mile at the
other end can still loom large on a foggy morning at 6:00AM however.

Wayne.B wrote:

Back in the 70s, pre-LORAN C, we used to DR from P-town to Maine on
a fairly regular basis. Plus or minus one mile after sailing 100
miles was fairly typical but maybe we were lucky. That one mile at
the other end can still loom large on a foggy morning at 6:00AM
however.

I don't doubt that one mile can make a big difference. On my first trip to
Pubnico NS I entered through Lobster Bay in "thick-o-fog" and somehow
managed it with little instrumentation (in particular no Loran or GPS or
radar). It was only much later that I understood the dangers due to
current, really dangerous shoals, etc. On my last trip, in good visibility
and with a bevy of tools, I noticed just how much we were pushed about by
the tide and how much of a chance we had taken almost 2 decades earlier.

More info is better.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:45:54 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:



In 36 years of sailing I've never run hard and unexpectedly aground
but, almost every time I was startled by the sight of a swirl of water
or flash of weed and ledge I didn't expect, it was because I was still
learning these simple concepts.

Good advice. Even very basic stuff like bits of tape on coamings to
get bearings, or having a hand compass and low-power birder's glasses
next to the companionway allows you to react quickly...like when the
fog is rolling in and you have a few seconds to get a bearing before
you are officially lost.

Did I not mention Dubya turned off the GPS or you dropped it in the
sea or the batteries are flat?

Ah, coastal pilotage. is there anything it can't do?

R.