On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 01:33:44 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:

wrote:

Peggie Hall wrote:

I find it interesting that people will drink water that's been a bottle
for months, but won't drink water that's only been in their tank for a
week.

In case you aren't aware of it, tests have shown that the bacteria etc
count in most bottled water is actually higher than that in tap water.

Only proving again that perception really is 99% of reality.

FYI most bottled "spring water" (not) is percoltated with ozone before
bottling to destroy or incapacitate bacteria for up to 2 years, as are
the bottles - a regulatory body requirement for all bottlers that is
also product-tested on every batch an ongoing basis. A few plants
accomplish this using high-intensity UV instead, to the same tough
standards. You may be aware that a few large vessels have UV process
treatment of drinking water, too.

We don't buy bottled water as a general rule, but my children
sometimes do. I've got some bottles that they have used, and I refill
them from the tap to take on car trips or walks. My daughter also
reused the water bottles which she buys and takes them to ball games
or on her boat for the kids to drink.

But the real preception/reality joke is that good home well water, and
even NYC tap water, taste superior to most people than bottled
springwaters, and consistently beat them all out in double-blind
consumer taste tests.

As a former participant in a bottled water venture, it all strikes me
as legalized marketing scam of sorts. :-)

Marinas seem to have caught on fast to it. Just 2 nights ago dining
with a yatch owner/friend at one, we encountered 2 different
upscale-market bottles of springwater on our table. Now, in any other
country, if a bottle of water were furnished with your table setting,
it would be complimentary of the establishment, or otherwise be
considered an insult. But in this case if you want to open the bottle
& drink any, it costs you over $10/bottle. Quite good marketing, yes?
Most people crack one or both open instinctively, and others decide
they want a sip, before they know they will be banged for it.

I once asked for water at a local crab house, and they told me that
I'd have to pay for bottled water because they didn't have any water
that was safe to drink. I didn't buy any.

The Owner's wife was undecided as to whether the tall, round, clear one
from Scandanavia looked more like a lava lamp or a sex symbol. I told
her it was obviously a marina sex symbol, since it was grey on top. ;-)

grandma Rosalie

There's been only two instances where I really liked the water I was drinking.
The first was Anchorage AK city water....the other was my well.
Norm B

I have a little PUR filter on the galley sink faucet. I refill all my
drinking water bottles using it as the filter, and it tastes great. I
also use it for cooking water. The regular tank water is fine for
showers, cleaning, washing hands, dishes, etc. I have fiberglass tanks
that, no matter how much I clean with bleach, etc., still pick up that
"fiberglass" smell after a couple of weeks. I use up the water in the
tanks at least once a month and refill with fresh.

"Keith" wrote:

I have a little PUR filter on the galley sink faucet. I refill all my
drinking water bottles using it as the filter, and it tastes great. I
also use it for cooking water. The regular tank water is fine for
showers, cleaning, washing hands, dishes, etc. I have fiberglass tanks
that, no matter how much I clean with bleach, etc., still pick up that
"fiberglass" smell after a couple of weeks. I use up the water in the
tanks at least once a month and refill with fresh.

I have a problem with those filters, in that I don't think they are
very sanitary. Wet all the time and prime breeding ground for nasty
stuff. Bob put one on the sink at the Baltimore house, but he hasn't
put one back on anything after we moved.

grandma Rosalie

HarryKrause wrote:

Like many things, the "taste" of water is subjective, assuming it isn't
loaded up with foul-tasting or smelling chemicals. For some reason "boat
water" always tastes "flat" to me.

I don't drink any to find out, unless it's by accident.

We have well water at our house, and it is pretty decent for drinking,
especially since we filter it. But I still rather take bottled water on
board, and drink that. It's no trouble for me to do so.

I fill bottles from my well for drinking water, too, and consider it
SOP until/unless yatchs are fitted with a separate drinking water tank
& associated piping system & tap(s). Most shipboard tradition & design
has always segregated potable from drinking systems, no matter how
clean any load of the former may be or what it may taste like. It's
ingrained for other reasons that, while of lesser consideration on a
yacht, haven't just gone away.

But it does seem odd to me that installing a separate small tank &
appropriate system for drinking water hasn't caught on much in the
boating world - considering everything else that is bought & installed
at great cost. Such as enough navgear to sail to Pluto through a
meteor field without touching the wheel nor picking up a pair of
binoculars. :-) Perhaps many assume there'll be good drinking water
available for free on Pluto, too, and that tank contamination never
happens?

HarryKrause wrote:

I have two boats with refrigerators. One is a 25' Parker with a 12V
refrigerator/freezer unit. It has never been used.

The refer or the boatBG?

Damn thing hooks into the two batteries on
board, and even though it is supposed to shut itself off if the voltage
drops below a certain level. Who knows if it will? And of course, I
could switch off one battery and run it off the other, but will I
remember? What it needs is its own dedicated battery with isolaters, but
I haven't gotten around to doing that bit of wiring.

The boat I'm presently involved with has an older ('78?) Norcold
dual-voltage refer of the usual size. This is the sort that has its
own internal inverter & changes over to 12vdc whenever it's available
at its terminals. During delivery trials I noted that on 12v it only
draws a little over 1 amp. I have little exp using 12v refers other
than an RV 3-way I didn't like, so to me this indicates 1 of 4 things:

- the refer is slightly hosed though it cools OK even with its no-good
door gasket (big gap at bottom in the usual place); or,

- it is unbelieveably efficient; or,

- the monitoring instrumentation (Link 2000) is lying (I haven't been
through that panel and verified its setup yet); or,

- you could run the sucker with only a small solar panel charging the
bank almost indefinitely.

But as for water chilling, it'd seem a natural for a cruising boat in
hot climates to obtain it part-time via a 2nd exchanger from
engine-driven A/C, particularly since most who can afford such boats
consider "roughing it" to mean badly-dressed line handlers & slow room
service. Or for the rest of us, fulltime via the
compact/simple/poor-man's route of routing DW through a little fin-tube
exchanger in the refer, perhaps using up the usual otherwise-cramped
space up high next to its freezer (evap).

Of course, once someone begins fabbing & selling the little exchanger
to boaters, it won't be a poor-man's route anymore. ;-) But finned
tubing is common enough that you could roll your own, and poking 2
holes in the rear to plumb it is a no-brainer for a careful person.
You might enjoy having a 5gal tank of nice well water piped to a small
DW-dedicated handpump spout that'd give you one big cold glass at a
time. This DW tank might also be an ordinary springwater carboy
secured with a 2-hole stopper - you could chuck it for a new one
anytime it got suspicious, or rinse it out easily, or even have 2 for
home filling/swapout. Finally, there'd be a lot more room in the
already-small refer.

Harry is this the Lobster Boat you haven't used or the Parker you haven't
used?


"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
wrote:
HarryKrause wrote:

I have two boats with refrigerators. One is a 25' Parker with a 12V
refrigerator/freezer unit. It has never been used.

The refer or the boatBG?


The fridge...nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.


Damn thing hooks into the two batteries on
board, and even though it is supposed to shut itself off if the voltage
drops below a certain level. Who knows if it will? And of course, I
could switch off one battery and run it off the other, but will I
remember? What it needs is its own dedicated battery with isolaters, but
I haven't gotten around to doing that bit of wiring.

The boat I'm presently involved with has an older ('78?) Norcold
dual-voltage refer of the usual size. This is the sort that has its
own internal inverter & changes over to 12vdc whenever it's available
at its terminals. During delivery trials I noted that on 12v it only
draws a little over 1 amp. I have little exp using 12v refers other
than an RV 3-way I didn't like, so to me this indicates 1 of 4 things:

- the refer is slightly hosed though it cools OK even with its no-good
door gasket (big gap at bottom in the usual place); or,

- it is unbelieveably efficient; or,

- the monitoring instrumentation (Link 2000) is lying (I haven't been
through that panel and verified its setup yet); or,

- you could run the sucker with only a small solar panel charging the
bank almost indefinitely.

But as for water chilling, it'd seem a natural for a cruising boat in
hot climates to obtain it part-time via a 2nd exchanger from
engine-driven A/C, particularly since most who can afford such boats
consider "roughing it" to mean badly-dressed line handlers & slow room
service. Or for the rest of us, fulltime via the
compact/simple/poor-man's route of routing DW through a little fin-tube
exchanger in the refer, perhaps using up the usual otherwise-cramped
space up high next to its freezer (evap).

Of course, once someone begins fabbing & selling the little exchanger
to boaters, it won't be a poor-man's route anymore. ;-) But finned
tubing is common enough that you could roll your own, and poking 2
holes in the rear to plumb it is a no-brainer for a careful person.
You might enjoy having a 5gal tank of nice well water piped to a small
DW-dedicated handpump spout that'd give you one big cold glass at a
time. This DW tank might also be an ordinary springwater carboy
secured with a 2-hole stopper - you could chuck it for a new one
anytime it got suspicious, or rinse it out easily, or even have 2 for
home filling/swapout. Finally, there'd be a lot more room in the
already-small refer.


I appreciate all this, but...it just goes to the core of my point, and
that is, it is a hell of a lot easier to bring aboard a few six packs of
bottled water when we go out than go through what you are describing to
run a fridge or have decent tasting water.

We have a commercial icemaker at home. (I used to do a lot of fishing in
Florida, and took it with me from there to Maryland) I empty its "product"
out into large plastic bags during the week and put those into our
freezer. When I head for the boat, I simply grab the bags of ice and when
I get to the boat we're using, I toss the ice into an ice chest, where it
keeps, if I want it to, for at least a few days. Bottles of water go on
top, along with other liquid refreshments, and whatever food that needs to
stay cold. No fuss, no muss, no plumbing, no electricity, no nuttin'.

I know this is not the elegant solution, but our 25-footer doesn't have a
generator, and I really do not want to find myself in the position of
trying to start an engine whose battery is down because the damned refrig
forgot to switch itself off when the voltage dropped or I forgot to flip
some damned switch.

If I were cruising for any significant periods of time, I wouldn't be
doing it in THAT boat, anyway. It's just a day or overnight kinda boat.

But I appreciate the elegance of what you are saying.



--
If it is Bad for Bush,
It is Good for the United States.

HarryKrause wrote:

I appreciate all this, but...it just goes to the core of my point, and
that is, it is a hell of a lot easier to bring aboard a few six packs of
bottled water when we go out than go through what you are describing to
run a fridge or have decent tasting water.

We have a commercial icemaker at home. (I used to do a lot of fishing in
Florida, and took it with me from there to Maryland) I empty its
"product" out into large plastic bags during the week and put those into
our freezer. When I head for the boat, I simply grab the bags of ice and
when I get to the boat we're using, I toss the ice into an ice chest,
where it keeps, if I want it to, for at least a few days. Bottles of
water go on top, along with other liquid refreshments, and whatever food
that needs to stay cold. No fuss, no muss, no plumbing, no electricity,
no nuttin'.

I know this is not the elegant solution, but our 25-footer doesn't have
a generator, and I really do not want to find myself in the position of
trying to start an engine whose battery is down because the damned
refrig forgot to switch itself off when the voltage dropped or I forgot
to flip some damned switch.

If I were cruising for any significant periods of time, I wouldn't be
doing it in THAT boat, anyway. It's just a day or overnight kinda boat.

But I appreciate the elegance of what you are saying.

I understand what you are saying, and although we have a built in
refer/freezer on our boat, we also do not use it for overnight or day
trips either. We don't even do as much as you do - we just bring a
cooler with some 2 liter soda bottles of frozen water in them. (We
fill them with water and freeze them at home) If they do happen to
melt, we can drink the water.

Our kids gave us a 12v refrigerator for the car last Xmas, which we
intend to use for the boat for situations like that. It's too large
to be viable in the car.

I have trained myself not to need cold water to drink. When the
engine heats up the water in the tanks (as it will if it is on for any
length of time), I will drink water from bottles that we've brought
from home. (We don't buy water in bottles.)

Our home refrigerator has a ice cube maker in it, but it is not hooked
up.


grandma Rosalie