http://www.rcryachts.com/fractional.htm

"Fractional Rig Offers Advantages Over Masthead Rig

In my sailing experience I have learned to prefer a fractional rig to
a masthead version, whether cruising, racing or daysailing. Here are
some of the reasons why I believe that more people should be sailing
boats with fractional rigs:"........

In article , Mic wrote:
http://www.rcryachts.com/fractional.htm

"Fractional Rig Offers Advantages Over Masthead Rig

In my sailing experience I have learned to prefer a fractional rig to
a masthead version, whether cruising, racing or daysailing. Here are
some of the reasons why I believe that more people should be sailing
boats with fractional rigs:"........

I agree with most of the content except this part...

"A frac rig boat can sail on mainsail alone: there are times when one
would prefer to sail with one sail up, for a variety of reasons. On a
masthead rig boat, sailing under main alone is so inefficient as to be
almost worthless, especially upwind."

I sail frequently on a mast head rig boat on just the main with no
problems at all. The boat has a full main with two reef points.

I don't understand why it would be an issue to do this.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

No kidding, does the main know or care the luff length of the foresail
that's not up?
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article , Mic
wrote:
http://www.rcryachts.com/fractional.htm

"Fractional Rig Offers Advantages Over Masthead Rig

In my sailing experience I have learned to prefer a fractional rig to
a masthead version, whether cruising, racing or daysailing. Here are
some of the reasons why I believe that more people should be sailing
boats with fractional rigs:"........

I agree with most of the content except this part...

"A frac rig boat can sail on mainsail alone: there are times when one
would prefer to sail with one sail up, for a variety of reasons. On a
masthead rig boat, sailing under main alone is so inefficient as to be
almost worthless, especially upwind."

I sail frequently on a mast head rig boat on just the main with no
problems at all. The boat has a full main with two reef points.

I don't understand why it would be an issue to do this.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:18:16 GMT, "MMC" said:

No kidding, does the main know or care the luff length of the foresail
that's not up?

That's a bit disingenuous. His argument is that the main is further forward,
giving better balance when sailing under main alone. Whether the argument is
valid of not, deal with that argument not a straw man.

Davey, the fact is that there is no material difference between
sailing under a masthead rig or a fractional rig on main alone. I have
not observed any difference in balance, and I've sailed on both kinds
of boats many, many times. The only thing that's disingenous is your
claim of understanding of the situation when you have no
understanding.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

"Red Cloud©" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:18:16 GMT, "MMC" wrote:

No kidding, does the main know or care the luff length of the foresail
that's not up?
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article , Mic
wrote:
http://www.rcryachts.com/fractional.htm

"Fractional Rig Offers Advantages Over Masthead Rig

In my sailing experience I have learned to prefer a fractional rig to
a masthead version, whether cruising, racing or daysailing. Here are
some of the reasons why I believe that more people should be sailing
boats with fractional rigs:"........

I agree with most of the content except this part...

"A frac rig boat can sail on mainsail alone: there are times when one
would prefer to sail with one sail up, for a variety of reasons. On a
masthead rig boat, sailing under main alone is so inefficient as to be
almost worthless, especially upwind."

I sail frequently on a mast head rig boat on just the main with no
problems at all. The boat has a full main with two reef points.

I don't understand why it would be an issue to do this.


The main on a masthead rig is generally quite small compared to what
you would find on a similar boat with a fractional rig. The mast is
also located further back. The entire rant about fractional vs.
masthead, however, was just that... a rant. He emphasized and
exaggerated the negatives of the masthead to try and make the
difference much greater than it actually is.

I have a masthead rigged boat, and it is far from "worthless" to sail
it under main alone.

I can also roll my 155% genoa down to a 100% and while it wouldn't be
competive for racing, it still adds plenty of power. It's certainly
not optimum, but it is still effective for cruising purposes. I sail
single handed quite often, so I don't always have a bunch of railmeat
along to hold the boat down when the wind kicks up.

rusty redcloud


None of the masthead rigs I've sailed on are "quite small" compared to
fractionally rigged boats. The location difference of the mast also has
seemed slight at best. I've noticed no difference between the two kinds of
boats on main alone. We use a 100% jib on the masthead rig I'm currently
sailing on, and it is plenty powerful, especially for the wind in the bay.

Personally, I like fractional rigs also, but not for the reasons stated in
the "ability to sail under main alone" rant.

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
Davey, the fact is that there is no material difference between
sailing under a masthead rig or a fractional rig on main alone. I have
not observed any difference in balance, and I've sailed on both kinds
of boats many, many times. The only thing that's disingenous is your
claim of understanding of the situation when you have no
understanding.


Well, don't be too hard on him, he's working an angle to drag politics
into this thread too.

While there is a theoretical difference in the way the two rigs balance
under main alone, a competent designer makes the boat's underbody suit
the rig he puts on it, whether it be MH or frac.

The biggest difference I can think of is that the main on the frac rig
will be more responsive to backstay adjustment. On some boats, it's
almost like a first reef.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
Davey, the fact is that there is no material difference between
sailing under a masthead rig or a fractional rig on main alone. I have
not observed any difference in balance, and I've sailed on both kinds
of boats many, many times. The only thing that's disingenous is your
claim of understanding of the situation when you have no
understanding.

Well, don't be too hard on him, he's working an angle to drag politics
into this thread too.

While there is a theoretical difference in the way the two rigs balance
under main alone, a competent designer makes the boat's underbody suit the
rig he puts on it, whether it be MH or frac.

The biggest difference I can think of is that the main on the frac rig
will be more responsive to backstay adjustment. On some boats, it's almost
like a first reef.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Doug, I know. I was just giving him some well-deserved sh*t.

I noticed this backstay adjustment response on a C&C 40 a couple of years
ago. It had a hydraulic setup... you just had to make sure and depower it
when the wind or the sail dropped.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 15 Jul 2005 07:41:00 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz) said:

That's a bit disingenuous. His argument is that the main is further forward,
giving better balance when sailing under main alone. Whether the argument is
valid of not, deal with that argument not a straw man.

Davey, the fact is that there is no material difference between
sailing under a masthead rig or a fractional rig on main alone. I have
not observed any difference in balance, and I've sailed on both kinds
of boats many, many times. The only thing that's disingenous is your
claim of understanding of the situation when you have no
understanding.

First of all, Jonathan there's no reason in the world for your use of the
diminutive "Davey." I had hoped that KFing you in .asa would be sufficient
to dispose of your childish behavior, and that you might perhaps conduct
yourself as an adult in this group. A vain hope, apparently, so into the
trash bin you go in this group as well.

Actually, I was being nice. You've called me far worse. Feel free to
Kfing me here also. You're very good at that.

Second, please read what I said, rather than what you imagined I said. I
took no position at all as to whether the claim was a valid one. (Note the
language "whether the argument is valid or not.") "The situation" I dealt
with was simply the poster's failure to respond to the argument being made
by the original post, and instead making up a fictional argument of his
own--a technique known as a "straw man."

Keep your lawyer talk to yourself. The fact is that there is no
significant difference w.r.t. sailing on a main with a fractional rig
or a masthead rig.




--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

On 15 Jul 2005 18:07:31 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

Link:

Rigging and Sails Links

http://www.tpo.net/sailing/rigging.htm

Link:

http://www.sailmaker.com/articles/index.htm

"Articles

This section of the web site is a collection of
informational/educational articles intended to help you understand
sailing better.

If you feel parts of the articles are confusing, or if you have ideas
for future articles, please send in your suggestions.

* Glossary of terms.
* Mainsail Articles
o Full-length battens - A Rational Discussion
o Reefing and un-reefing mainsails
* Spinnaker Articles
o Steering on a Windy Run - how waves interact with a
sailboat
o Gybe Central is the focal point for various articles on
gybing.
o Downwind Sails for cruising sailors, with setting and
dousing tips.
o Spinnaker Tips and tricks for long distance Ocean Racing.
o Adding a Bow Pole for an asymmetric spinnaker to a Cal 39
* Roller Furling Jibs
o Prevent the destruction of roller furling jibs while your
boat sits in its slip.
o Tedlar Films for UV covers...do they work?
* Spreader Patch Installation Guide
* CAD-CAM Using computers for design and manufacture of sails.
* OPEN 60 Class yachts -- are not all the same!
* Emergency Rudder installation suggestions and examples.
* Stepping a mast on an Antrim 27 (and similar deck-stepped rigs).
* Wyliecat 48 It is not every day we are asked to build a sail
like this!
"

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 05:53:48 GMT, (Mic) wrote:

On 15 Jul 2005 18:07:31 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

Mo' Links
Interesting

Sail Shape Tips
6 September 2004

http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/tips.htm

http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/sail101.htm

"Sailing 101

The fundamentals of sailing are simple. However, if someone doesn't
tell you how it's done, it could be a mystery for a long period of
time. The answer in one word is balance and our sailing balance is the
diagram below. Everything that's dynamic like flying and sailing or
even holding a baby appears to be difficult at first. Once you
understand the psychics involved in any process, the process becomes
less difficult and maybe even easy. I still can't get the hang of
inline skates, but I think bent knees may be the secret. "