Howdy, y'all

As most of you know, we're in an extensive refit. We're finally to the
point of addressing the stern of the boat. Most of you know we added
an arch, on which we've put wind and solar, satellite, gps and vhf
antennas, davits, and other goodie-hangers.

Our prior HF antenna location was about midway on the starboard stern
side, attached by a standoff to the stern rail, 24" up. Tuner is very
close to that location, being mounted on the side of the propane
locker.

As it turns out, my solar module frame is 1" tube and is in such a
position as to allow the standoff from my whip to attach to it (much
more support, of course, being 8' in the air, rather than 2' up, like
the rail was before). However, to make that work, I'd have to put the
whip centerline, or very close to it. The base would be right next to
the chain plate for the aft stay.

The way I've got the aft entry, now, it's not a problem to do that in
convenience and use terms. The question is, given that it's marginally
closer (don't know that I'd change the end of the cable) to the tuner,
is that a good placement? There's no parallel metal anywhere nearby;
the closest angle is the back stay, going forward, and, 4'+ away, the
arch itself. Everything else is right angles.

So, is that a good location for the whip? I'd expected to have to put
it very close to the side of the boat in order to keep it out of the
way. That would put it close to the arch itself, and some impediment
to access to some stuff on that side.

Thanks for any informed opinions :{))

L8R

Skip, refitting as fast as I can in the last two days aboard before
surgery

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Our main VHF antenna is up at the top of the mast. I think it came
that way. We have a flagpole on the stern, which was a cell phone
antenna. The SSB antenna is the backstay and the tuner is down on the
deck on the stern.

"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

Howdy, y'all

As most of you know, we're in an extensive refit. We're finally to the
point of addressing the stern of the boat. Most of you know we added
an arch, on which we've put wind and solar, satellite, gps and vhf
antennas, davits, and other goodie-hangers.

Our prior HF antenna location was about midway on the starboard stern
side, attached by a standoff to the stern rail, 24" up. Tuner is very
close to that location, being mounted on the side of the propane
locker.

As it turns out, my solar module frame is 1" tube and is in such a
position as to allow the standoff from my whip to attach to it (much
more support, of course, being 8' in the air, rather than 2' up, like
the rail was before). However, to make that work, I'd have to put the
whip centerline, or very close to it. The base would be right next to
the chain plate for the aft stay.

The way I've got the aft entry, now, it's not a problem to do that in
convenience and use terms. The question is, given that it's marginally
closer (don't know that I'd change the end of the cable) to the tuner,
is that a good placement? There's no parallel metal anywhere nearby;
the closest angle is the back stay, going forward, and, 4'+ away, the
arch itself. Everything else is right angles.

So, is that a good location for the whip? I'd expected to have to put
it very close to the side of the boat in order to keep it out of the
way. That would put it close to the arch itself, and some impediment
to access to some stuff on that side.

Thanks for any informed opinions :{))

L8R

Skip, refitting as fast as I can in the last two days aboard before
surgery

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

grandma Rosalie

In article . com,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

Howdy, y'all

As most of you know, we're in an extensive refit. We're finally to the
point of addressing the stern of the boat. Most of you know we added
an arch, on which we've put wind and solar, satellite, gps and vhf
antennas, davits, and other goodie-hangers.

Our prior HF antenna location was about midway on the starboard stern
side, attached by a standoff to the stern rail, 24" up. Tuner is very
close to that location, being mounted on the side of the propane
locker.

As it turns out, my solar module frame is 1" tube and is in such a
position as to allow the standoff from my whip to attach to it (much
more support, of course, being 8' in the air, rather than 2' up, like
the rail was before). However, to make that work, I'd have to put the
whip centerline, or very close to it. The base would be right next to
the chain plate for the aft stay.

The way I've got the aft entry, now, it's not a problem to do that in
convenience and use terms. The question is, given that it's marginally
closer (don't know that I'd change the end of the cable) to the tuner,
is that a good placement? There's no parallel metal anywhere nearby;
the closest angle is the back stay, going forward, and, 4'+ away, the
arch itself. Everything else is right angles.

So, is that a good location for the whip? I'd expected to have to put
it very close to the side of the boat in order to keep it out of the
way. That would put it close to the arch itself, and some impediment
to access to some stuff on that side.

Thanks for any informed opinions :{))

L8R


MF/HF Marine Antennas should ALWAYS follow these simple rules:

1. Higher and longer, is better than lower and shorter.....
2. Autotuners were invented to replace Compitant Radiomen, with
just about every other "Dufus" who thought that he could install
a SSB Radio by himself, and save himself a pile of money.....
3. It doesn't matter how big, or long, your antenna is, if
your RF Ground is totally crap........
4. If you have a GOOD RF Ground, a "Wet Noodle" will radiate better
then the "Best Antenna" with a poor RF Ground.....
5. It is the RF Ground, Sonny, the RF Ground......


Me one who has been around the docks for 40 years......

Me wrote:
In article . com,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

Howdy, y'all

As most of you know, we're in an extensive refit. We're finally to the
point of addressing the stern of the boat. Most of you know we added
an arch, on which we've put wind and solar, satellite, gps and vhf
antennas, davits, and other goodie-hangers.

Our prior HF antenna location was about midway on the starboard stern
side, attached by a standoff to the stern rail, 24" up. Tuner is very
close to that location, being mounted on the side of the propane
locker.

As it turns out, my solar module frame is 1" tube and is in such a
position as to allow the standoff from my whip to attach to it (much
more support, of course, being 8' in the air, rather than 2' up, like
the rail was before). However, to make that work, I'd have to put the
whip centerline, or very close to it. The base would be right next to
the chain plate for the aft stay.

The way I've got the aft entry, now, it's not a problem to do that in
convenience and use terms. The question is, given that it's marginally
closer (don't know that I'd change the end of the cable) to the tuner,
is that a good placement? There's no parallel metal anywhere nearby;
the closest angle is the back stay, going forward, and, 4'+ away, the
arch itself. Everything else is right angles.

So, is that a good location for the whip? I'd expected to have to put
it very close to the side of the boat in order to keep it out of the
way. That would put it close to the arch itself, and some impediment
to access to some stuff on that side.

Thanks for any informed opinions :{))

L8R


MF/HF Marine Antennas should ALWAYS follow these simple rules:

1. Higher and longer, is better than lower and shorter.....
2. Autotuners were invented to replace Compitant Radiomen, with
just about every other "Dufus" who thought that he could install
a SSB Radio by himself, and save himself a pile of money.....
3. It doesn't matter how big, or long, your antenna is, if
your RF Ground is totally crap........
4. If you have a GOOD RF Ground, a "Wet Noodle" will radiate better
then the "Best Antenna" with a poor RF Ground.....
5. It is the RF Ground, Sonny, the RF Ground......


Me one who has been around the docks for 40 years......

Boy, I hate web-based posting. I replied to this and the computer ate
it, of course, not saving it anywhere for me...

Thanks for the info on non-HF, whip, antenna placement. Our nav VHF is
mast top, our cockpit VHF is on the arch, as are other antennas. We'll
not be using the backstay for an antenna for a variety of reasons,
time, money and security in the potential dismasting among them.

As further background, we have full rails, with the gates combined
electrically with brass straps belowdecks, attached to the arch, the
pushpit and pulpit. We have about 110 lineal feet of 1" SS tube rail,
unless you count the inner rails, plus the arch. In addition we have
the standard 4" copper strapping leading to a sintered bronze Guest
plane below the boat, and also connected to a 3x5' plate under the
workbench top. I think we have a reasonably good ground.

We have an SGC-230 tuner within 2 cable-feet of the whip antenna. We
expect to have an Icom I-802 HF for our HF comms.

Given that we'll have a whip antenna, is centerline, next to the chain
plate, as good as, better or worse than, or something else when
compared to near the side as it was before (but before the arch was
installed)?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip, refitting as fast as I can

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

http://www.budgetmarine.com/pdf/108.pdf
Ground system.

--
The Road Warrior Hobbit

no -- it's NOT ok to contact this account with services or other
commercial interests


"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
ups.com...
| Howdy, y'all
|
| As most of you know, we're in an extensive refit. We're finally to
the
| point of addressing the stern of the boat. Most of you know we
added
| an arch, on which we've put wind and solar, satellite, gps and vhf
| antennas, davits, and other goodie-hangers.
|
| Our prior HF antenna location was about midway on the starboard
stern
| side, attached by a standoff to the stern rail, 24" up. Tuner is
very
| close to that location, being mounted on the side of the propane
| locker.
|
| As it turns out, my solar module frame is 1" tube and is in such a
| position as to allow the standoff from my whip to attach to it (much
| more support, of course, being 8' in the air, rather than 2' up,
like
| the rail was before). However, to make that work, I'd have to put
the
| whip centerline, or very close to it. The base would be right next
to
| the chain plate for the aft stay.
|
| The way I've got the aft entry, now, it's not a problem to do that
in
| convenience and use terms. The question is, given that it's
marginally
| closer (don't know that I'd change the end of the cable) to the
tuner,
| is that a good placement? There's no parallel metal anywhere
nearby;
| the closest angle is the back stay, going forward, and, 4'+ away,
the
| arch itself. Everything else is right angles.
|
| So, is that a good location for the whip? I'd expected to have to
put
| it very close to the side of the boat in order to keep it out of the
| way. That would put it close to the arch itself, and some
impediment
| to access to some stuff on that side.
|
| Thanks for any informed opinions :{))
|
| L8R
|
| Skip, refitting as fast as I can in the last two days aboard before
| surgery
|
| Morgan 461 #2
| SV Flying Pig
| http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her
|
| "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
you
| didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail
| away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
| Explore.
| Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
|

Skip

Don't forget, the Icom 802 is also going to want an additional receive-only
antenna for the DSC receiver portion. It can't use the main antenna for
this. I'm using the backstay for the 802 HF transceiver, a 23 foot whip on
one side for the DSC receiver in the 802, and another 23 foot whip on the
other side for a separate HF receiver (R-71A). The antenna for the R-71 is
also shared with the stereo radio.

The backstay uses an AT-140 tuner. The receive-only antennas don't have
tuners.

Rusty

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
oups.com...
Boy, I hate web-based posting. I replied to this and the computer ate
it, of course, not saving it anywhere for me...

Thanks for the info on non-HF, whip, antenna placement. Our nav VHF is
mast top, our cockpit VHF is on the arch, as are other antennas. We'll
not be using the backstay for an antenna for a variety of reasons,
time, money and security in the potential dismasting among them.

As further background, we have full rails, with the gates combined
electrically with brass straps belowdecks, attached to the arch, the
pushpit and pulpit. We have about 110 lineal feet of 1" SS tube rail,
unless you count the inner rails, plus the arch. In addition we have
the standard 4" copper strapping leading to a sintered bronze Guest
plane below the boat, and also connected to a 3x5' plate under the
workbench top. I think we have a reasonably good ground.

We have an SGC-230 tuner within 2 cable-feet of the whip antenna. We
expect to have an Icom I-802 HF for our HF comms.

Given that we'll have a whip antenna, is centerline, next to the chain
plate, as good as, better or worse than, or something else when
compared to near the side as it was before (but before the arch was
installed)?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip, refitting as fast as I can

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Near the centerline should be fine.

The Icom-802 is a great rig, especially so if you also have a ham
license. I highly recommend getting a SCS Pactor III to go with it,
along with free Airmail software for your laptop. The combination is
very versatile and powerful: Email via HF radio, Navtex, weather fax,
position reporting via APRS, etc.

Talk to Gary at Dockside Radio if you need help setting it up or
getting licensed:

http://www.docksideradio.com/

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Thanks for any informed opinions :{))

Forget dubbing with an xmting whip, insulate the backstay & light it up
for HF. The insulators aren't cheap but neither is another
whip-related evolution. The stay is also a good compromise btw vert &
horiz polarization. A good tuner'll tune a backstay dowm to 1.5 swr or
better almost anywhere you'll operate. Be smart about the feedline
(get help if U need it). Elegance, performance, less junk sticking off
the boat, tuner below where it belongs.

In article .com,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

As further background, we have full rails, with the gates combined
electrically with brass straps belowdecks, attached to the arch, the
pushpit and pulpit. We have about 110 lineal feet of 1" SS tube rail,
unless you count the inner rails, plus the arch. In addition we have
the standard 4" copper strapping leading to a sintered bronze Guest
plane below the boat, and also connected to a 3x5' plate under the
workbench top. I think we have a reasonably good ground.

You will never know if you have a "reasonably good ground", unless
you get yourself an Impedance Bridge, and check it at the frequencies
that you commonly work. Anything that is more than 12" away from the
water, isn't going to add "diddley-squat" toward building a Low Impedance
Wideband RF Ground System, and anyone who tells you otherwise, is just as
uneducated about MF/HF Marine Radio Antenna Systems, as you seem to be.
I have seen all kinds of Systems that looked very impresive, untill they
were evaluated with real insurmentation. 400 Sq Ft of Copper Screen in
the Cabin Overhead was proffered, as a really good RF Ground, by a well
known Boat Builder, 20 years ago. It didn't work any better than
having nothing at all, when tested, in a real radio enviorment. If
you got a Plastic Hull, you are NEVER going to get a Real RF Ground,
UNLESS the hull builder was smart, (they never are) and put 200+ Sq
Ft of screen under the gellcoat down by the keel. Cellulose hulls
are just as bad, and harder to retrofit that Plastic ones.
Like I said in my first reply, Autotuners were invented to allow any
"Dufus" to think he install an MF/HF Marine Radio System, and save
himself all that money he would have paid a Compitant Radioman.
SGC Autotuners are some of the worst of the lot, even if they did steal
the design from the real inventers. SGC couldn't even copy the design
correctly, and "Old PeeAir" couldn't design his way out of a "Wet Paper
Bag".

Me