Starting a new thread as the old one led to dead ends.

For a précis on the background, see the thread "Antennas, again, sorta" -
but I'm trying to find an up-the-mast single-item (or single box, anyway)
which will see my wifi connection in my laptop as well as shore points. To
emphasize the point, I don't want to have to connect either a laptop or
permanently mounted computer to a bridge (which would get the job done) via
anything, ethernet, USB active cable, coax or otherwise. Even allowing a
wireless AP/router below would not solve the problem, as I haven't found a
pair which will talk to each other, and I don't want the complexity/extra
wiring that would entail, either, if it would (work). Some sort of
arrangement which would require proprietary eqiupment (Part A will talk to
Part B only if they're both the same manufacturer, e.g, as I can't assure
that any shoreside point would have that manufacturer) likewise isn't
satisfactory. Amplification is a good thing (i.e. 200-1000mw) but the
antennas are what most likely will get the job done, and I have that part
handled.

The problem so far has been that I can't find an AP and Bridge which will
talk to each other. Surely there's something which will work, and can take
common DC power up the mast?

Since nobody here (or, at least, apparently so) knows of such a beast, can
anyone point me to better forums on usenet, or websites, devoted to the
subject? Perhaps some sites devoted to wardriving or the equivalent? It's
a bit of a recursive loop, as not knowing what will actually accomplish the
job makes looking other places for other solutions more challenging.

Thanks for suggestions on other venues...

L8R

Skip, passive rehabbing, active to start in a couple of weeks, so I can get
back to refitting!

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

In article ,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

Starting a new thread as the old one led to dead ends.

For a précis on the background, see the thread "Antennas, again, sorta" -
but I'm trying to find an up-the-mast single-item (or single box, anyway)
which will see my wifi connection in my laptop as well as shore points. To
emphasize the point, I don't want to have to connect either a laptop or
permanently mounted computer to a bridge (which would get the job done) via
anything, ethernet, USB active cable, coax or otherwise. Even allowing a
wireless AP/router below would not solve the problem, as I haven't found a
pair which will talk to each other, and I don't want the complexity/extra
wiring that would entail, either, if it would (work). Some sort of
arrangement which would require proprietary eqiupment (Part A will talk to
Part B only if they're both the same manufacturer, e.g, as I can't assure
that any shoreside point would have that manufacturer) likewise isn't
satisfactory. Amplification is a good thing (i.e. 200-1000mw) but the
antennas are what most likely will get the job done, and I have that part
handled.

The problem so far has been that I can't find an AP and Bridge which will
talk to each other. Surely there's something which will work, and can take
common DC power up the mast?

Since nobody here (or, at least, apparently so) knows of such a beast, can
anyone point me to better forums on usenet, or websites, devoted to the
subject? Perhaps some sites devoted to wardriving or the equivalent? It's
a bit of a recursive loop, as not knowing what will actually accomplish the
job makes looking other places for other solutions more challenging.

Thanks for suggestions on other venues...

L8R

Skip, passive rehabbing, active to start in a couple of weeks, so I can get
back to refitting!

You are not likely to find such a box that has universal connectivity,
due to the fact that the "WPA Standard" is not very well defined, and
each OEM tends to extend the Spec with it's own proprietary code.
Also note, that most WPA type Extenders require MAC Address information
of the remote Access Point, which may, or may not, be part of the SSID
Beacon String of the remote Access Point. Seems to "Me" that your
asking for hardware that is 'Not Invented Yet". You could hire a
Development Outfit to write you some really cool code to do what you
want, but it would be expensive, and beyond the capabilities of most
coders, and they would have to have a hardware platform to work with.

Me

"Me" wrote in message
...
You are not likely to find such a box that has universal connectivity,
due to the fact that the "WPA Standard" is not very well defined, and
each OEM tends to extend the Spec with it's own proprietary code.
Also note, that most WPA type Extenders require MAC Address information
of the remote Access Point, which may, or may not, be part of the SSID
Beacon String of the remote Access Point. Seems Thanks, me, for the
followup. One confusion:

How come/can my computer see and talk to shore points without knowing all
the Mac stuff, but a bridge can't?

I acknowledge being just smart enough to be dangerous but implicitly, if
some other device can do it, another should be able to, no?

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

to "Me" that your
asking for hardware that is 'Not Invented Yet". You could hire a
Development Outfit to write you some really cool code to do what you
want, but it would be expensive, and beyond the capabilities of most
coders, and they would have to have a hardware platform to work with.

Me

I only see a bit of this thread - I came in late.

Is what you want is internet connections from your laptop from your
boat while cuising?

I think you are saying you have a Mac. If that is the case then you
should use a phone to connect. I use my powerbook and a cell phone to
connect at 144kbs and the cost is $4.95 a month. If that works for you
and you have a mac, let me know and I will let you know what you need
to do the job.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 15:29:41 -0400, Skip Gundlach said:
...
How come/can my computer see and talk to shore points without knowing all
the Mac stuff, but a bridge can't?

It doesn't need to. On any network, machines see each other's MAC addresses,
that's what is established when you join the network.

Probably my advice is somewhat confused by your use of the word bridge. In
networks, you might find it easier to think of a bridge as a two-port hub.
Packets that come in one end are duplicated at the other. A bridge that
joins a wireless network and a wired one is not different in this regard,
just the "ports" are internal to the unit, which probably has a wireless
"hub" and an ethernet switch, joined by the bridge.

The problem as I understand what you are trying to do, is that you want
to run the device as an access point in infrastructure BSS (basic service
set) mode, so that your laptop can talk to it as a client, but also to act
as a client and communicate with another access point.

For your laptop to comminucate with your access point, the access point
must be configured to offer a wireless network to join. The "local" wireless
network is identified by a SSID, which really is the mac of the wireless
interface on the access point. On the other hand, to join another wireless
network would mean not doing that, but rather acting as your laptop does
when it joins to your local network.

This is why I suggested the simplest solution is to use two wireless devices
connected *to each other* by ethernet. You have one device configured to
act as the BSS mode access point, and the other to act as a wireless
ethernet client. You'd configure your local wireless network on the first,
and join it with your laptop. You should then be able to communicate with
the other over the wireless link to the access point, and then the ethernet.
You'd then be remote-controlling the masthead "client" device, and use it
to connect to other networks. Realistically, one or other of these devices
would need to also be a router that can do network address translation (NAT)
once the data link layer is established, but that's beyond the scope of
getting that link established in the first place.

It is certainly possible for all this functionality to be combined in one
device, but I'd strongly suspect that no such device exists. Consider the
material above, and the very specific context you are outlining.

I acknowledge being just smart enough to be dangerous but implicitly, if
some other device can do it, another should be able to, no?

Well, you didn't answer my question earlier about whether you were trying
to connect two network devices with a straight through or a crossover cable.
It shouldn't be complex: you can buy pre-made crossover cables as readily
as you can straight through ones.

--Damian

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Starting a new thread as the old one led to dead ends.

For a précis on the background, see the thread "Antennas, again, sorta" -
but I'm trying to find an up-the-mast single-item (or single box, anyway)
which will see my wifi connection in my laptop as well as shore points. To
emphasize the point, I don't want to have to connect either a laptop or
permanently mounted computer to a bridge (which would get the job done) via
anything, ethernet, USB active cable, coax or otherwise. Even allowing a
wireless AP/router below would not solve the problem, as I haven't found a
pair which will talk to each other, and I don't want the complexity/extra
wiring that would entail, either, if it would (work). Some sort of
arrangement which would require proprietary eqiupment (Part A will talk to
Part B only if they're both the same manufacturer, e.g, as I can't assure
that any shoreside point would have that manufacturer) likewise isn't
satisfactory. Amplification is a good thing (i.e. 200-1000mw) but the
antennas are what most likely will get the job done, and I have that part
handled.

The problem so far has been that I can't find an AP and Bridge which will
talk to each other. Surely there's something which will work, and can take
common DC power up the mast?

Since nobody here (or, at least, apparently so) knows of such a beast, can
anyone point me to better forums on usenet, or websites, devoted to the
subject? Perhaps some sites devoted to wardriving or the equivalent? It's
a bit of a recursive loop, as not knowing what will actually accomplish the
job makes looking other places for other solutions more challenging.

Thanks for suggestions on other venues...

Skip, have you tried changing the IP address of a second wireless
router, and connecting the two together by ethernet? It seems an AE
up the mast can't see your wireless laptop, and a deck height ae
can't reach the shore?

One might expect the routers to be connected to an on board computer
to act as a bridge, but I don't see why, short of software patches,
it couldn't work without a bridge.

Hasn't anyone tried using two wireless hubs at home?

Terry K

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
Skip Gundlach wrote:

Starting a new thread as the old one led to dead ends.

For a précis on the background, see the thread "Antennas, again, sorta" -
snip

SMC makes a wireless ethernet adapter:

http://www.smc.com/index.cfm?event=v...&scid=&pid=498

two of these can form a wireless connection between 2 wired lans. OK price,
($69.00 or so) and great range +or - 1500 feet.

Skip, like you, I know just enough to be dangerous. I use a wireless bridge
connected by a one foot cable to a d-link wireless router. These two items
sit alone hidden away in the corner (not up the mast however). The bridge
is connected to an outdoor antenna via 30' of cable and connects to the
shore-side access point and my laptop connects wirelessly to the d-link. I
could just as well wrap these two together and hoist them up the mast but
would have to power them and they are not outdoor gear. The hard thing with
this system for me is that the bridge has to be preconfigured--it can't
browse for available networks.

Forgive me if I am rambling on. I suspect you are already way beyond me,
but I'm not sure some of the other posters are.


"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
Starting a new thread as the old one led to dead ends.

For a précis on the background, see the thread "Antennas, again, sorta" -
but I'm trying to find an up-the-mast single-item (or single box, anyway)
which will see my wifi connection in my laptop as well as shore points.
To
emphasize the point, I don't want to have to connect either a laptop or
permanently mounted computer to a bridge (which would get the job done)
via
anything, ethernet, USB active cable, coax or otherwise. Even allowing a
wireless AP/router below would not solve the problem, as I haven't found a
pair which will talk to each other, and I don't want the complexity/extra
wiring that would entail, either, if it would (work). Some sort of
arrangement which would require proprietary eqiupment (Part A will talk to
Part B only if they're both the same manufacturer, e.g, as I can't assure
that any shoreside point would have that manufacturer) likewise isn't
satisfactory. Amplification is a good thing (i.e. 200-1000mw) but the
antennas are what most likely will get the job done, and I have that part
handled.

The problem so far has been that I can't find an AP and Bridge which will
talk to each other. Surely there's something which will work, and can
take
common DC power up the mast?

Since nobody here (or, at least, apparently so) knows of such a beast, can
anyone point me to better forums on usenet, or websites, devoted to the
subject? Perhaps some sites devoted to wardriving or the equivalent?
It's
a bit of a recursive loop, as not knowing what will actually accomplish
the
job makes looking other places for other solutions more challenging.

Thanks for suggestions on other venues...

L8R

Skip, passive rehabbing, active to start in a couple of weeks, so I can
get
back to refitting!

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

In article , Terry Spragg
wrote:

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Starting a new thread as the old one led to dead ends.

For a précis on the background, see the thread "Antennas, again, sorta" -
but I'm trying to find an up-the-mast single-item (or single box, anyway)
which will see my wifi connection in my laptop as well as shore points. To
emphasize the point, I don't want to have to connect either a laptop or
permanently mounted computer to a bridge (which would get the job done) via
anything, ethernet, USB active cable, coax or otherwise. Even allowing a
wireless AP/router below would not solve the problem, as I haven't found a
pair which will talk to each other, and I don't want the complexity/extra
wiring that would entail, either, if it would (work). Some sort of
arrangement which would require proprietary eqiupment (Part A will talk to
Part B only if they're both the same manufacturer, e.g, as I can't assure
that any shoreside point would have that manufacturer) likewise isn't
satisfactory. Amplification is a good thing (i.e. 200-1000mw) but the
antennas are what most likely will get the job done, and I have that part
handled.

The problem so far has been that I can't find an AP and Bridge which will
talk to each other. Surely there's something which will work, and can take
common DC power up the mast?

Since nobody here (or, at least, apparently so) knows of such a beast, can
anyone point me to better forums on usenet, or websites, devoted to the
subject? Perhaps some sites devoted to wardriving or the equivalent? It's
a bit of a recursive loop, as not knowing what will actually accomplish the
job makes looking other places for other solutions more challenging.

Thanks for suggestions on other venues...

Skip, have you tried changing the IP address of a second wireless
router, and connecting the two together by ethernet? It seems an AE
up the mast can't see your wireless laptop, and a deck height ae
can't reach the shore?

One might expect the routers to be connected to an on board computer
to act as a bridge, but I don't see why, short of software patches,
it couldn't work without a bridge.

Hasn't anyone tried using two wireless hubs at home?

We do it on a ship for joining 2 physical networks together. Works
fine. The Netgear devices we use can either be a bridge or a hub but
not both at the same time.

I'm not buying into this because most of the problems seems to come
down to Skip's determination not to run ethernet up the stick. Since I
think his reasons are trivially stupid, and he insists that's how it
has to be, he can sort it out himself. Some problems aren't worth
solving and I can recognise one when I see it.

PDW

In article ,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

"Me" wrote in message
...
You are not likely to find such a box that has universal connectivity,
due to the fact that the "WPA Standard" is not very well defined, and
each OEM tends to extend the Spec with it's own proprietary code.
Also note, that most WPA type Extenders require MAC Address information
of the remote Access Point, which may, or may not, be part of the SSID
Beacon String of the remote Access Point. Seems Thanks, me, for the
followup. One confusion:

How come/can my computer see and talk to shore points without knowing all
the Mac stuff, but a bridge can't?

I acknowledge being just smart enough to be dangerous but implicitly, if
some other device can do it, another should be able to, no?

L8R

Skip

Because your computer isn't using the WPA Protocol, but is using Client
Protocols, and what your Masthead repeater is trying to do, is use a
form of WPA that isn't universally accepted by all OEM's hardware. If
you had a wire up the mast then you could put hardware up their that
acted like a Client, but you refuse to consider that, so your busted
with no solution.

Me talking to just another appliance operator......