The main point I wanted to make in my post is that the parts can be had
for cheap if you know what to ask for. DONT ask for A4 parts!

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:07:43 -0400, Ryk
wrote:

On the other side of the equation, it
[an Atomic 4]
eats through something
approaching a gallon an hour, which would get into serious money for a
trip down the ICW.

Just for curiosity and comparison, since I don't expect to be driving
either, how quickly do the following burn gasoline?
- a personal watercraft?
- a trawler?


Louise

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:07:43 -0400, Ryk
wrote:

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:41:23 -0400, rhys wrote:

So while I would consider taking a free diesel, and would
insist/prefer a "big iron" Perkins 4-107/8 for a cruising/bluewater
boat, the Atomic 4 is ideal for me currently. A buddy just put 125
hours on his in three weeks of cruising the Thousand Islands due to
fluky or contrary winds. He swapped out a failed 30 year coil (he
carried a spare) and did an oil change.

I've put a lot on mine this summer, from Kingston up to the North
Channel, and have had to do some minor maintenance. The simplicity of
the engine is a huge advantage. A bigger plus -- many of the parts
have automotive equivalents. I replaced the entire ignition system out
of an auto parts store for about CDN$120. Then I swapped some pieces
back in to determine where the problems were.

On the other side of the equation, it eats through something
approaching a gallon an hour, which would get into serious money for a
trip down the ICW.

Ryk

Heres an opinion partially based on fact and just opinion:

The A4 is rather old but estimates are that half of the 40,000 are
still in use. They are easy to repair. In anything less than a 30
footer they are to heavy and takeup to much space. Fuel economy is
not great, 50 to 75 % more than a diesel. Though the cost of
maintanence and repair is less than a diesel, according to Pascoe,
which I believe.
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasNdiesel.htm

I believe those that have one on a boat and are selling it is
considered a liability, just as those who are buying a boat with one
in it. My guess is half of those who had an A4 and require
replacement go for an outboard, but than depends on its usage and LOA.

Saildrives are an interesting concept and in someways make sense. But
they are also not as desirable and have some big negatives.

http://www.saildrive280.com/
http://www.saildrive280.com/gob.htm
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/rcray/pol...ve280parts.htm
PRICE LIST
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/rcray/polarbear/SD280.htm
http://www.vonwentzel.net/Prout/01.P.../10.Saildrive/
http://home.planet.nl/~g.boere/home.htm
THE DEFINATIVE? SAILDRIVE INFO PAGE

My preference is an outboard in a lazarette and I like the retrofit
James Baldwin did on a 28 footer.
http://www.atomvoyages.com/projects/TaipanRefit.htm

It seems that outboards tend to be a preference on alot of CATS either
as singles or duals.

The HP rating of engines vary depending on where they measure it at so
comparing HP doesnt necessarly mean much.

Electric motors make lots of sense, even to the extent of having an
aux diesel gen. for that purpose. Which I have seen a few discussions
on. But yet again it depends on the type of usage of the craft.
http://hardydiesel.com/gen/generators.htm

A while ago I thought about and researched the usage of car or truck
engines to replace boat engines. Well it can be done but there are
just too many issues. There is a company in England that provides
"marinization" kits for various engines, and very few in the US.

http://boatdiesel.com/Articles/APage...troduction.cfm
Engine Life vs. Engine Loading
GREAT ARTICLE

There is even such a thing as and Outboard diesel.
http://www.woodenboatshop.com.au/def...anmar/c129/490
To create this remarkable outboard unit, Yanmar built the
world's smallest and lightest diesel engine in its class.
This is a directly injected, water-cooled, 4-cycle powerpack
with a weight to output ratio as low as 1.69 kg/hp.
* Powerhead 4-stroke, water cooled, vertical crankshaft diesel.
* Direct injection, direct sea water cooling. 3-cylinder, two
output choices 27hp and 36hp.

http://www.boat-links.com/linklists/boatlink-30.html

http://www.marineengine.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
MarineEngine.com Discussion Board

http://www.mesamarine.com/
MARINE EXHAUST SYSTEMS OF ALABAMA, INC.
Marinization Kits
Give us any engine and we can design a Keeled Cooled and Heat
Exchanger Cooled Kit including Water Cooled Manifold, Expansion Tank,
Heat Exchanger, Raw Water Pump, Fan Guard, Water Inlets, Water
Outlets, Wet Exhaust Ell's, Wet and Dry Exhaust Risers, and etc... The
design is then priced and you are quoted the prototyping cost as well
as the purchase cost.

http://forums.boatdesign.net/showthread.php?t=4630
DIESEL TRUCK engine Marinization discussion

http://forums.boatdesign.net/showthread.php?t=5765
Isuzu Diesel Engines

Humm SOMETHING NEW, HERES A LINK AND YOU FIGURE IT OUT
http://www.smartplugs.com/faq.htm
http://www.smartplugs.com/index.html
http://www.smartplugs.com/about.htm
Details
The SmartPlug is a self-contained ignition system that may be
retrofitted to existing spark-ignition and compression-ignition
engines. The SmartPlug consists of a prechamber containing a catalytic
heating element. Cold starting requires up to 25 watts/igniter from an
external power supply. The SmartPlug can be started with a 1.5 volt
"D" cell all the way up to a 40 volt battery, depending upon
application and design. Once the engine is warmed up under moderate
load, the power supply is no longer necessary. The SmartPlug becomes
self-sustaining while under load. This unique ability of the SmartPlug
is due to its catalytic ignition source.

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:07:43 -0400, Ryk
wrote:



On the other side of the equation, it eats through something
approaching a gallon an hour, which would get into serious money for a
trip down the ICW.

Well, that's why I said "for my type of sailing", which is blasting in
and out of the yacht club basin and the shipping channel under power,
then not much motoring other than that. That's why it's a "sailboat",
or at least that's why I justify to myself the purchase of an
asymmetrical spinnaker that cost twice as a rebuilt Atomic 4 G

R.

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 00:45:17 -0400, rhys wrote:

Well, that's why I said "for my type of sailing", which is blasting in
and out of the yacht club basin and the shipping channel under power,
then not much motoring other than that. That's why it's a "sailboat",
or at least that's why I justify to myself the purchase of an
asymmetrical spinnaker that cost twice as a rebuilt Atomic 4 G

Wouldn't the right comparison to a rebuilt A4 be a re-cut genoa in
Egyptian cotton? ;-)

My favourite spinnaker cost me CDN$800 used and I don't think I could
drop a rebuilt A4 into the boat for twice that. Still, I don't think I
could really justify repowering with a diesel unless the A4 threw a
rod through the block or something like that.

Ryk

Being a geeky engineering techi type, I'd like to have an A4 just to
play with and admire for its being the right solution to a specific
problem and being so relaible. I guess I just admire good technology.

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 01:30:23 -0400, Ryk
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 00:45:17 -0400, rhys wrote:

Well, that's why I said "for my type of sailing", which is blasting in
and out of the yacht club basin and the shipping channel under power,
then not much motoring other than that. That's why it's a "sailboat",
or at least that's why I justify to myself the purchase of an
asymmetrical spinnaker that cost twice as a rebuilt Atomic 4 G

Wouldn't the right comparison to a rebuilt A4 be a re-cut genoa in
Egyptian cotton? ;-)

Har har. Or maybe a rack of British Seagulls strapped to the transom.

My favourite spinnaker cost me CDN$800 used and I don't think I could
drop a rebuilt A4 into the boat for twice that. Still, I don't think I
could really justify repowering with a diesel unless the A4 threw a
rod through the block or something like that.

I bought new and with an ATN snuffer and some other gear. I don't
regret it, as every other "new" sail on the boat is a recut racing
sail that didn't meet some rich guy's standards in his quest for a
name plate on a club trophy, but which regularly exceed mine.

My sailmaker is busy converting luff tape on a newish (but out of
favour) Dacron working jib to a hank-on. It will fit my boat within
inches of the "regulation" No. 3 and is snowy white and unstretched
and has been kept cool and dry for a few years. Cost to me: $100.

I have a Spectra/Mylar 140% "small" No. 1. Cost to me: $400, because
it needed a slight cut-down plus the hank-ons. This one I already use,
and it is fantastically better than the '80s blown out No. 1s it
replaces.

As for the A4, I have an entire spare rebuilt block with 30 hours on
it in the garage...due to my own stupidity in not realizing a
screwed-up waterlift can make you think you've got a crack between the
valve chamber and the cooling passages.

Oy.

R.

On 2 Sep 2005 10:34:13 -0700, wrote:

Being a geeky engineering techi type, I'd like to have an A4 just to
play with and admire for its being the right solution to a specific
problem and being so relaible. I guess I just admire good technology.

You could probably still get a working one for free if you offer to
haul it out of some guy's boat who is DETERMINED to get a little
Yanmar. Every club has them...that's how SUVs for soccer mums became
popular: propaganda and marketing.

R.

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 15:57:11 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 01:30:23 -0400, Ryk
wrote:
My favourite spinnaker cost me CDN$800 used and I don't think I could
drop a rebuilt A4 into the boat for twice that. Still, I don't think I
could really justify repowering with a diesel unless the A4 threw a
rod through the block or something like that.

I bought new and with an ATN snuffer and some other gear. I don't
regret it, as every other "new" sail on the boat is a recut racing
sail that didn't meet some rich guy's standards in his quest for a
name plate on a club trophy, but which regularly exceed mine.

I agree. I've been really lucky in finding a lot of good sails that
meet my needs without breaking the bank. I found it much easier to
locate spinnakers that fit the boat because there's a lot more room in
the dimensioning. For example, the one I mentioned above is a little
taller and a little narrower than "normal" for the boat, but fits just
inside the PHRF rules for overall size.

Ryk

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:54:25 GMT, (Mic) wrote:

A while ago I thought about and researched the usage of car or truck
engines to replace boat engines. Well it can be done but there are
just too many issues. There is a company in England that provides
"marinization" kits for various engines, and very few in the US.

SOME DIFFERENCES BETWEEN AUTOMOTIVE & MARINE ENGINES

http://www.boatfix.com/how/marineeng.html

"Think of it this way:
You get in your car
Start it up
Drive to the highway
Put your foot to the floor and hold it there for an hour
Its a little different, well for most of us. "