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Checking the Basics of the Atomic 4 Engine
http://www.48north.com/mr_offline/atomic.htm
"From what I know about Atomic 4's (A-4) is that if you have the basics, good spark (ignition), good compression and good clean fuel the engine should run. These three factors, along with proper maintenance, will keep the Atomic 4 going as it has for over thirty years. The Atomic 4, (also known as the Atomic Bomb or Anemic 4) is a very reliable engine. There were over 40,000 engines built with approximately half still out there running today! They are very simple, grass roots, low tech engines that (like every other engine) require routine maintenance such as frequent oil changes, tune ups, clean fuel, visual inspections, and proper cooling systems. " |
NEVER been a gas explosion on an A-4, impressive. BTW, what sort of
fuel economy do they get? I once heard a rumor that old Farmall Cub tractors used an Atomic 4 engine, true or not? |
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Here are some Atomic 4 Engine links:
http://www.geocities.com/atomfour/ ATOMIC FOUR OWNER'S MANUAL: ATOMIC FOUR MAINTENANCE ALERT: http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/atomic4.htm Atomic 4: Smooth, worth another look Diesel envy? Take another look at the gasoline engine that came with your good old boat http://www.atomic4.com/ http://www3.telus.net/Atomic_4_Eng_Service/ http://www.moyermarine.com/ MOYER MARINE INC. UNIVERSAL ATOMIC 4 ENGINE PARTS AND REBUILDING We are the leading provider of parts and services for the Universal Atomic 4 Engine. We offer everything from completely rebuilt engines to those hard to find, remanufactured and aftermarket parts for this faithful companion to over three generations of sailors. http://storm.prohosting.com/yankee30/atomic4.htm * Sailnet Atomic 4 email list * Atomic 4 WWW Board * The Care and Feeding of the Universal Atomic 4 Engine * Free Atomic 4 Owners Manual, engine specs from Captain Ron * Free Atomic 4 Manual - at the C&C web site * Atomic 4 Parts Catalog - at the C&C web site * Atomic 4 Specifications - Robert Hess, Vancouver, B.C. * Atomic 4 FAQ - Robert Hess, Vancouver, B.C. * Atomic 4 FTP site - at Sailnet * Atomic 4 Service Manual -Seacraft Publications * Atomic 4 Service and Overhaul Manual - Don Moyer * Atomic 4 Engine Service, Parts, History of Universal Motors - Robert Hess, Vancouver, B.C. * Article from Good Old Boat Magazine - Atomic 4: Smooth, worth another look * Article from 48° North Magazine - Checking the Basics of the Atomic 4 Engine * Article from Sea Magazine - Restoring Atomic Power * Indigo Electronics aftermarket upgrade kits for Atomic 4 * Pertronix Electronic Ignition conversion * Atomic 4 Rebuilding and Parts by Moyer Marine * Foley Engines Atomic 4 fuel pump and carburetor upgrades * Atomic 4 Parts & Service - Bill Jayne, St. Petersburg, FL * Aftermarket Discount Marine Parts * Atomic 4 Parts - MarineParts.com * Diesel replacements from Westerbeke, Yanmar, Beta Marine, and Vetus * Atomic 4 - portside view (208 kb) * Atomic 4 - starboardside view (200 kb) * CDI Performance Propellers * Repowering "Frolic" with a Kubota Diesel * Repowering "Andiamo" with a Yanmar Diesel * Repowering "Tootsie" with a Nanni Diesel * Flushing out the Atomic 4 Cooling System * Flushing out the Atomic 4 Cooling System Using the Raw Water Pump * Thermostat housing "fix" |
I have heard so many good things about the Atomic 4, that if I had one
I wouldnt consider re-powering with diesel if my A4 worked well. |
The A4 was built to be a trackot engine, not a boat engine. ..... so I
have been told..... |
I had an A4 in my Cal when I bought it and the guy I bought it form
told me to replace it because it didn't work. All I did was replace a completely clogged fuel filter and it ran pretty well for a long time after that. I bought my boat in Long Beach CA and sailed her to Florida and then again around the Caribbean for another 4 years on the A4 and only replaced it after being moored in an electrical nightmare for 6 years. The engine actually was so bad that I broke much of what was left of it out and off with my hands. (even with zinks - not a good thing) I swore by the A4 because it was so quite and easy to fix. Long story short, I repowered her with a 28 hp diesel 2 years ago. The total cost with me doing all the labor was about 10K because there are many other things involved like linkage, a new fuel tank, exhaust, exhaust lifter, train, shaft, prop size and the list goes on. When I was all done with it I started cleaning out all my old spares. I had 2 extra carburetors, a new distributor, plugs, wires, and just about anything else you can think of. (BTW, my impellors were the same size so now I have lots of spares there). I now use less then =BD an hour as opposed to 1 gal an hour with the A4. I have a huge amount of extra power that I never had before and the engine is actually not that load. There are pros and cons with both but some of the pros of an A4 are not often talked about. In Mexico, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama, I needed fuel and GAS was the only thing around. Others with diesels where stuck. Anywhere that there is a car or outboard motor, you will find GAS but diesel is rare. The A4 is extremely quite compared to a diesel and most important to me, if the A4 is running, why on earth would you spend $10,000 or more and a month of your life changing it out? I put 20,000 miles on what was suppose to be a dead engine. My advice to anyone with an A4 is that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. ************ A4's use the same electrical as one of the old Mercury engines. I have it written down somewhere but all my books are in storage and I have forgotten the details. If you have an A4, the price of buying something like a distributor cap from an A4 company and buying the same thing from mercury at discount auto is about ten times the cost. I bought my distributor cap and rotor plug for my A4 for about $6 from chief auto. The guy in the Miami store new all the info and saved me a ton of money. Before you buy anything for an A4, look up what I am saying and find the numbers. You will save a fortune. |
On 31 Aug 2005 12:24:48 -0700, "palmtreedreamer"
wrote: The A4 was built to be a trackot engine, not a boat engine. ..... so I have been told..... That's a myth. While it is a simple engine, being a low-compression four-cylinder, four stroke, it is fully marinized and is made with a corrosion resistant block alloy. I have one in the boat and a rebuilt spare in the garage, oiled and waiting. I have nothing against diesel, but for the weekend cruiser/daysailer, gas is better than diesel from the point of view of the nature of the engines themselves. If I run my A4 for the 15 minutes it takes to get out of my basin and into clear air beyond the fairway buoys, I'll get the coolant temperature to maybe 140-150 F (the maximum with my thermostat is 180F if I have proper flow). The engine "doesn't care" if it's run for short periods, then turned off. A diesel, by contrast, is "happiest" with LONG runs (very efficient). You want the block to fully heat up: short runs on diesel at less than cruise RPM can be tough and wearing on the engine. Gas engines don't "care" to the same degree. So while I would consider taking a free diesel, and would insist/prefer a "big iron" Perkins 4-107/8 for a cruising/bluewater boat, the Atomic 4 is ideal for me currently. A buddy just put 125 hours on his in three weeks of cruising the Thousand Islands due to fluky or contrary winds. He swapped out a failed 30 year coil (he carried a spare) and did an oil change. Moyer Marine is the Mecca for Atomic 4s. http://www.moyermarine.com/rebuild.htm R. |
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:41:23 -0400, rhys wrote:
So while I would consider taking a free diesel, and would insist/prefer a "big iron" Perkins 4-107/8 for a cruising/bluewater boat, the Atomic 4 is ideal for me currently. A buddy just put 125 hours on his in three weeks of cruising the Thousand Islands due to fluky or contrary winds. He swapped out a failed 30 year coil (he carried a spare) and did an oil change. I've put a lot on mine this summer, from Kingston up to the North Channel, and have had to do some minor maintenance. The simplicity of the engine is a huge advantage. A bigger plus -- many of the parts have automotive equivalents. I replaced the entire ignition system out of an auto parts store for about CDN$120. Then I swapped some pieces back in to determine where the problems were. On the other side of the equation, it eats through something approaching a gallon an hour, which would get into serious money for a trip down the ICW. Ryk |
The main point I wanted to make in my post is that the parts can be had
for cheap if you know what to ask for. DONT ask for A4 parts! |
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:07:43 -0400, Ryk
wrote: On the other side of the equation, it [an Atomic 4] eats through something approaching a gallon an hour, which would get into serious money for a trip down the ICW. Just for curiosity and comparison, since I don't expect to be driving either, how quickly do the following burn gasoline? - a personal watercraft? - a trawler? Louise |
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:07:43 -0400, Ryk
wrote: On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:41:23 -0400, rhys wrote: So while I would consider taking a free diesel, and would insist/prefer a "big iron" Perkins 4-107/8 for a cruising/bluewater boat, the Atomic 4 is ideal for me currently. A buddy just put 125 hours on his in three weeks of cruising the Thousand Islands due to fluky or contrary winds. He swapped out a failed 30 year coil (he carried a spare) and did an oil change. I've put a lot on mine this summer, from Kingston up to the North Channel, and have had to do some minor maintenance. The simplicity of the engine is a huge advantage. A bigger plus -- many of the parts have automotive equivalents. I replaced the entire ignition system out of an auto parts store for about CDN$120. Then I swapped some pieces back in to determine where the problems were. On the other side of the equation, it eats through something approaching a gallon an hour, which would get into serious money for a trip down the ICW. Ryk Heres an opinion partially based on fact and just opinion: The A4 is rather old but estimates are that half of the 40,000 are still in use. They are easy to repair. In anything less than a 30 footer they are to heavy and takeup to much space. Fuel economy is not great, 50 to 75 % more than a diesel. Though the cost of maintanence and repair is less than a diesel, according to Pascoe, which I believe. http://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasNdiesel.htm I believe those that have one on a boat and are selling it is considered a liability, just as those who are buying a boat with one in it. My guess is half of those who had an A4 and require replacement go for an outboard, but than depends on its usage and LOA. Saildrives are an interesting concept and in someways make sense. But they are also not as desirable and have some big negatives. http://www.saildrive280.com/ http://www.saildrive280.com/gob.htm http://pages.sbcglobal.net/rcray/pol...ve280parts.htm PRICE LIST http://pages.sbcglobal.net/rcray/polarbear/SD280.htm http://www.vonwentzel.net/Prout/01.P.../10.Saildrive/ http://home.planet.nl/~g.boere/home.htm THE DEFINATIVE? SAILDRIVE INFO PAGE My preference is an outboard in a lazarette and I like the retrofit James Baldwin did on a 28 footer. http://www.atomvoyages.com/projects/TaipanRefit.htm It seems that outboards tend to be a preference on alot of CATS either as singles or duals. The HP rating of engines vary depending on where they measure it at so comparing HP doesnt necessarly mean much. Electric motors make lots of sense, even to the extent of having an aux diesel gen. for that purpose. Which I have seen a few discussions on. But yet again it depends on the type of usage of the craft. http://hardydiesel.com/gen/generators.htm A while ago I thought about and researched the usage of car or truck engines to replace boat engines. Well it can be done but there are just too many issues. There is a company in England that provides "marinization" kits for various engines, and very few in the US. http://boatdiesel.com/Articles/APage...troduction.cfm Engine Life vs. Engine Loading GREAT ARTICLE There is even such a thing as and Outboard diesel. http://www.woodenboatshop.com.au/def...anmar/c129/490 To create this remarkable outboard unit, Yanmar built the world's smallest and lightest diesel engine in its class. This is a directly injected, water-cooled, 4-cycle powerpack with a weight to output ratio as low as 1.69 kg/hp. * Powerhead 4-stroke, water cooled, vertical crankshaft diesel. * Direct injection, direct sea water cooling. 3-cylinder, two output choices 27hp and 36hp. http://www.boat-links.com/linklists/boatlink-30.html http://www.marineengine.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi MarineEngine.com Discussion Board http://www.mesamarine.com/ MARINE EXHAUST SYSTEMS OF ALABAMA, INC. Marinization Kits Give us any engine and we can design a Keeled Cooled and Heat Exchanger Cooled Kit including Water Cooled Manifold, Expansion Tank, Heat Exchanger, Raw Water Pump, Fan Guard, Water Inlets, Water Outlets, Wet Exhaust Ell's, Wet and Dry Exhaust Risers, and etc... The design is then priced and you are quoted the prototyping cost as well as the purchase cost. http://forums.boatdesign.net/showthread.php?t=4630 DIESEL TRUCK engine Marinization discussion http://forums.boatdesign.net/showthread.php?t=5765 Isuzu Diesel Engines Humm SOMETHING NEW, HERES A LINK AND YOU FIGURE IT OUT http://www.smartplugs.com/faq.htm http://www.smartplugs.com/index.html http://www.smartplugs.com/about.htm Details The SmartPlug is a self-contained ignition system that may be retrofitted to existing spark-ignition and compression-ignition engines. The SmartPlug consists of a prechamber containing a catalytic heating element. Cold starting requires up to 25 watts/igniter from an external power supply. The SmartPlug can be started with a 1.5 volt "D" cell all the way up to a 40 volt battery, depending upon application and design. Once the engine is warmed up under moderate load, the power supply is no longer necessary. The SmartPlug becomes self-sustaining while under load. This unique ability of the SmartPlug is due to its catalytic ignition source. |
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:07:43 -0400, Ryk
wrote: On the other side of the equation, it eats through something approaching a gallon an hour, which would get into serious money for a trip down the ICW. Well, that's why I said "for my type of sailing", which is blasting in and out of the yacht club basin and the shipping channel under power, then not much motoring other than that. That's why it's a "sailboat", or at least that's why I justify to myself the purchase of an asymmetrical spinnaker that cost twice as a rebuilt Atomic 4 G R. |
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 00:45:17 -0400, rhys wrote:
Well, that's why I said "for my type of sailing", which is blasting in and out of the yacht club basin and the shipping channel under power, then not much motoring other than that. That's why it's a "sailboat", or at least that's why I justify to myself the purchase of an asymmetrical spinnaker that cost twice as a rebuilt Atomic 4 G Wouldn't the right comparison to a rebuilt A4 be a re-cut genoa in Egyptian cotton? ;-) My favourite spinnaker cost me CDN$800 used and I don't think I could drop a rebuilt A4 into the boat for twice that. Still, I don't think I could really justify repowering with a diesel unless the A4 threw a rod through the block or something like that. Ryk |
Being a geeky engineering techi type, I'd like to have an A4 just to
play with and admire for its being the right solution to a specific problem and being so relaible. I guess I just admire good technology. |
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 01:30:23 -0400, Ryk
wrote: On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 00:45:17 -0400, rhys wrote: Well, that's why I said "for my type of sailing", which is blasting in and out of the yacht club basin and the shipping channel under power, then not much motoring other than that. That's why it's a "sailboat", or at least that's why I justify to myself the purchase of an asymmetrical spinnaker that cost twice as a rebuilt Atomic 4 G Wouldn't the right comparison to a rebuilt A4 be a re-cut genoa in Egyptian cotton? ;-) Har har. Or maybe a rack of British Seagulls strapped to the transom. My favourite spinnaker cost me CDN$800 used and I don't think I could drop a rebuilt A4 into the boat for twice that. Still, I don't think I could really justify repowering with a diesel unless the A4 threw a rod through the block or something like that. I bought new and with an ATN snuffer and some other gear. I don't regret it, as every other "new" sail on the boat is a recut racing sail that didn't meet some rich guy's standards in his quest for a name plate on a club trophy, but which regularly exceed mine. My sailmaker is busy converting luff tape on a newish (but out of favour) Dacron working jib to a hank-on. It will fit my boat within inches of the "regulation" No. 3 and is snowy white and unstretched and has been kept cool and dry for a few years. Cost to me: $100. I have a Spectra/Mylar 140% "small" No. 1. Cost to me: $400, because it needed a slight cut-down plus the hank-ons. This one I already use, and it is fantastically better than the '80s blown out No. 1s it replaces. As for the A4, I have an entire spare rebuilt block with 30 hours on it in the garage...due to my own stupidity in not realizing a screwed-up waterlift can make you think you've got a crack between the valve chamber and the cooling passages. Oy. R. |
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On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 15:57:11 -0400, rhys wrote:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 01:30:23 -0400, Ryk wrote: My favourite spinnaker cost me CDN$800 used and I don't think I could drop a rebuilt A4 into the boat for twice that. Still, I don't think I could really justify repowering with a diesel unless the A4 threw a rod through the block or something like that. I bought new and with an ATN snuffer and some other gear. I don't regret it, as every other "new" sail on the boat is a recut racing sail that didn't meet some rich guy's standards in his quest for a name plate on a club trophy, but which regularly exceed mine. I agree. I've been really lucky in finding a lot of good sails that meet my needs without breaking the bank. I found it much easier to locate spinnakers that fit the boat because there's a lot more room in the dimensioning. For example, the one I mentioned above is a little taller and a little narrower than "normal" for the boat, but fits just inside the PHRF rules for overall size. Ryk |
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:54:25 GMT, (Mic) wrote:
A while ago I thought about and researched the usage of car or truck engines to replace boat engines. Well it can be done but there are just too many issues. There is a company in England that provides "marinization" kits for various engines, and very few in the US. SOME DIFFERENCES BETWEEN AUTOMOTIVE & MARINE ENGINES http://www.boatfix.com/how/marineeng.html "Think of it this way: You get in your car Start it up Drive to the highway Put your foot to the floor and hold it there for an hour Its a little different, well for most of us. " |
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 18:09:17 -0400, Ryk
wrote: I agree. I've been really lucky in finding a lot of good sails that meet my needs without breaking the bank. I found it much easier to locate spinnakers that fit the boat because there's a lot more room in the dimensioning. For example, the one I mentioned above is a little taller and a little narrower than "normal" for the boat, but fits just inside the PHRF rules for overall size. Well, imagine if you are not sailing to a rule! There's a few sites that provide reasonably accurate "rig data" for foretriangles and mainsails, and if they have a simple Excel-style "greater than/less than" database in place, you can actually determine which models of boat will likely provide used sails that will fit your boat with little or no cutting/alteration. For me, it's a 14-15 foot J with a 39 foot luff, which means I lurk around a lot of mid-70s, C&C-dominated club race fleets...G. Those guys chuck out some great stuff. I've also sold a number of Atomic 4 spares or traded in kind. It's quite entrepreneurial, this sailing game. R. |
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