"charliekilo" wrote in message
.. .
I'm considering the purchase of a performance cruiser in the 40-42 foot
range: I'm looking at Sea Ray, Cruisers, Formula and Rinker all with
gasoline engines. I realize that gasoline engines can pose more of a fire
hazard than diesel but what I'm curious about is in modern vessels, how
significant is the difference in the danger?

The boat will be used more as a weekend getaway on a medium-sized inland
lake than as a cruiser so I thought gas engines would be more economical
in
the mid to short-term. i.e. rather significant lower cost of acquisition.


Another VERY GOOD reason to go diesel will be the ability to resell the boat
at a good price. Gas powered 40 footers are a drag on the used boat market.
They depreciate at a higher rate and there is a very limited market for
them. Your safety concerns are good but combine them with eventually
selling the boat and you will go diesel.

Hmmm.....the 6400 lb displacement, 27' cruiser I'm considering is powered by
a single 250 hp gas engine. Would you say that it is underpowered?

It depends what kind of performance and engine durability you are
expecting. I have a 5000 lb I/O cuddy with a 5.7L 260 hp engine. At
3400 RPM it cruises at 24 kts in flat water which I regard as OK but
nothing exceptional. It burns 13 gph at that speed and has been
reasonably reliable.

The point of my previous post was that there is an upper weight limit
where it becomes impossible to get adequate performance from gas
engines, even with fuel injected big blocks. At 6400 lbs you are well
under that limit but a bit underpowered unless you go to twins or
bigger engine. Twins become difficult to maintain in a boat that size
because of close engine spacing.

Can someone explain to me why many people who buy a boat are always in such
a damned hurry to "get there"?
......
I think how awful it is every time I see some nice trawler in the ICW
plowing up a big bow wave it shouldn't have as its owner has his twin 300hp
diesels just cranked up hard. Fast Trawler? Isn't that an oxymoron??

Larry, aren't you the guy who used to enjoy zipping around Charleston
Harbor in your 50 mph jet boat? Fun, right?

And sometimes you just need to get somewhere...

You meet all types, I finished my first ocean crossing in May to
Hawaii and was very proud that I had used about 12 gallons of diesel
and 5 gallons of gas for the generator in the 20 day crossing, and that
included motoring the last 80 miles to make it in time to take my wife
on mothers day out for dessert on mothers day just at dusk. I then met
the second cruiser, out of hundreds in our year of cursing that was a
bit if a sour puss. I was boasting of what I thought was minimal fuel
consumption, and informed by this cruiser that I probably spent too
much time on the radio and had very expensive ice cubes, and that he
could have circumnavigated with the same amount of fuel. O well, there
is always someone......
I agree with Peggy whole heartedly. A large part of safety is
knowing what you have and how to deal with it.
The type of use you describe:
"The boat will be used more as a weekend getaway on a medium-sized
inland
lake than as a cruiser so I thought gas engines would be more
economical in
the mid to short-term. i.e. rather significant lower cost of
acquisition."

With the price of gas these days you may be able to get into a very
comfortable and much larger boat then a diesel powered vessel. The big
question for me, is will you have enough $$$ left over after purchasing
it to use it. If you want a comfortable boat and you don't plan on
many miles, and plan on keeping it for a long period of time. Then gas
powered seems to be the most economical. If you don't do much
distance cruising it may take you years to recoup the additional cost
of the diesel. But I do love the simplicity of my diesel truck and
boat.
What option will get you out on the water more?
John

wrote:
The type of use you describe:
"The boat will be used more as a weekend getaway on a medium-sized
inland
lake than as a cruiser so I thought gas engines would be more
economical in
the mid to short-term. i.e. rather significant lower cost of
acquisition."

The major difference between sailors and powerboaters:

When sailors take their boats out, they take 'em out to sail
'em...they're underway most of the time. Yes, they do spend some time in
anchorages, but SAILING is the reason they own the boat. Sailing doesn't
burn fuel.

Powerboaters, otoh (except for ski boat owners) are destination
boaters...they take their boats out to go somewhere. On a lake, that
usually means a cove where they can drop the anchor or raft with other
boats, toss out the float toys, turn on the stereo and stay there for
the weekend. Contrary to what most sailors think, that kind of use
doesn't burn a whole lot of fuel either. In fact, I suspect there were
weekends when my generator burned more fuel than my engines did.

Nor is that kind of use particularly good for diesel engines...they like
to run hard and long...they don't particularly like nothing but "cold
start/short hop" use (check out the diesel cars that are never used for
anything but carpool and errands...their back bumpers are always covered
in black smoke and a lot of 'em clatter). Gas engines don't have a
problem with type of use. And they're a lot better for pulling your kids
on a tube or a wakeboard, too.

So for your intended use, I'd go with the gas engine...IMO it'll be the
most economical in the long run.

And take a USCG Aux or US Power Squadron boating safety course!

Just my $.02 worth...
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

wrote in message
oups.com...
You meet all types, I finished my first ocean crossing in May to
Hawaii and was very proud that I had used about 12 gallons of diesel
and 5 gallons of gas for the generator in the 20 day crossing, and that
included motoring the last 80 miles to make it in time to take my wife
on mothers day out for dessert on mothers day just at dusk. I then met
the second cruiser, out of hundreds in our year of cursing that was a
bit if a sour puss. I was boasting of what I thought was minimal fuel
consumption, and informed by this cruiser that I probably spent too
much time on the radio and had very expensive ice cubes, and that he
could have circumnavigated with the same amount of fuel. O well, there
is always someone......
I agree with Peggy whole heartedly. A large part of safety is
knowing what you have and how to deal with it.
The type of use you describe:
"The boat will be used more as a weekend getaway on a medium-sized
inland
lake than as a cruiser so I thought gas engines would be more
economical in
the mid to short-term. i.e. rather significant lower cost of
acquisition."

With the price of gas these days you may be able to get into a very
comfortable and much larger boat then a diesel powered vessel. The big
question for me, is will you have enough $$$ left over after purchasing
it to use it. If you want a comfortable boat and you don't plan on
many miles, and plan on keeping it for a long period of time. Then gas
powered seems to be the most economical. If you don't do much
distance cruising it may take you years to recoup the additional cost
of the diesel. But I do love the simplicity of my diesel truck and
boat.
What option will get you out on the water more?
John

So far, you guys have helped me "squat" about 50% for gas, 50% against. LOL!
On any given weekend, the boat wouldn't be motored any more than 20 miles on
average - then anchored for the weekend. I'm not sure if a $50k+
differential in price would be worth it over a 2 - 3 year period.

Another issue I'm having, FWIW, is that this boat would be replacing a
second home on a southereastern island (which we just sold last week) in
which we earned a 545% ROI over 10 years...I sure hate to buy something that
depreciates but we'd like something to get away for the weekends and is only
20 minutes away from home and office.

If I were cruising the intercostal, I'd get the diesel without question.

Still perplexed in Austin, TX,
Miles

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
The type of use you describe:
"The boat will be used more as a weekend getaway on a medium-sized
inland
lake than as a cruiser so I thought gas engines would be more
economical in
the mid to short-term. i.e. rather significant lower cost of
acquisition."

The major difference between sailors and powerboaters:

When sailors take their boats out, they take 'em out to sail 'em...they're
underway most of the time. Yes, they do spend some time in anchorages, but
SAILING is the reason they own the boat. Sailing doesn't burn fuel.

Powerboaters, otoh (except for ski boat owners) are destination
boaters...they take their boats out to go somewhere. On a lake, that
usually means a cove where they can drop the anchor or raft with other
boats, toss out the float toys, turn on the stereo and stay there for the
weekend. Contrary to what most sailors think, that kind of use doesn't
burn a whole lot of fuel either. In fact, I suspect there were weekends
when my generator burned more fuel than my engines did.

Nor is that kind of use particularly good for diesel engines...they like
to run hard and long...they don't particularly like nothing but "cold
start/short hop" use (check out the diesel cars that are never used for
anything but carpool and errands...their back bumpers are always covered
in black smoke and a lot of 'em clatter). Gas engines don't have a
problem with type of use. And they're a lot better for pulling your kids
on a tube or a wakeboard, too.

So for your intended use, I'd go with the gas engine...IMO it'll be the
most economical in the long run.

And take a USCG Aux or US Power Squadron boating safety course!

Just my $.02 worth...
--
Peggie

Just a couple of personal points after reading your post: You're exactly
correct about how we'll use our boat - find a cove and stay for the weekend.
If we go to the far reaches of the lake, we'll motor maybe 7-9 miles each
way. Secondly, I for one, NEVER thought I'd be looking at a power boat. I've
been a sailor since I was three years old, first sailing a Rebel, an
assortment of pocket cruisers, raced 470s in college, crewed on a
competitive Hobie 33 for several seasons, sailed up the east coast, from
Hilton Head, SC to Gloucester, MA on a Cheoy Lee Clipper 36 and lastly,
sailed the Grenadines for a month on a 55 foot custom full keel double-ender
two years ago. I never even wanted to step foot on a fuel guzzling "stink
pot" - but suddenly I find myself getting lazy. That and the fact that I
want a little more luxury and comfort than a moderate sized sailboat can
provide...and three flat screen televisions on *one* boat, how cool is that!
LOL

In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote:

The major difference between sailors and powerboaters:

Powerboaters get in their boat to get someplace. Sailors get on their
boat and they're already there.

We greatly enjoy leaving the anchorage a few hours early and sailing at
low to no speed out in the Bay. There's little difference between
sitting at anchor and sitting in the middle of the Bay, except that no
one's going to care what we wear and I get the satisfaction of squeezing
the most out of Momma's teasing. Even when there's wind, we'll sail beam
reaches until sunset, returning to the dock rested and rejuvenated.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

In article ,
"charliekilo" wrote:

Another issue I'm having, FWIW, is that this boat would be replacing
a second home snip but we'd like something to get away for the
weekends and is only 20 minutes away from home and office.

If I were cruising the intercostal, I'd get the diesel without question.

Still perplexed in Austin, TX,
Miles

I'd say gas then, for the reason Peggie listed. You'll hardly get
diesels warmed up, and fuel turnover will be low enough that you'll
probably have algae problems.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

wrote:
Gas engines can be almost as safe as diesel if they are properly
maintained and operated.

That's true. But there is still a big difference, in that the diesels
are safe with no special action by the operator, while gas engines are
'almost as safe' (I like that phrase, thanks) only if proper procedures
are followed. The operator must take certain actions without exception.


... In my opinion that should not be the deciding
factor. The real issues are power, torque, range and economy. There
is a break point somewhere around 12 to 15,000 pounds of boat weight
where gas engines will not develop sufficient power for decent,
economical performance.

It may be a power/weight range, some big muscle boats seem to do OK with
gas... not may area of expertise.

But I wanted to add my 2 pence by saying that resale value is also a big
difference between the two, as is reliability... diesels are better in
both categories, of course...

Fair Skies
Doug King