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Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
I'm considering the purchase of a performance cruiser in the 40-42 foot
range: I'm looking at Sea Ray, Cruisers, Formula and Rinker all with gasoline engines. I realize that gasoline engines can pose more of a fire hazard than diesel but what I'm curious about is in modern vessels, how significant is the difference in the danger? The boat will be used more as a weekend getaway on a medium-sized inland lake than as a cruiser so I thought gas engines would be more economical in the mid to short-term. i.e. rather significant lower cost of acquisition. |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (includingpowerplant)
Dave wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:36:19 GMT, "charliekilo" said: I realize that gasoline engines can pose more of a fire hazard than diesel but what I'm curious about is in modern vessels, how significant is the difference in the danger? I've personally seen one boat with gas engine go up in flames while fueling, and on of my wife's MDs lost part of a leg when another one did the same. What's your tolerance for risk? Not to mention..exploding. Happens around here every once & a while. |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (includingpowerplant)
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:36:19 GMT, "charliekilo"
said: I realize that gasoline engines can pose more of a fire hazard than diesel but what I'm curious about is in modern vessels, how significant is the difference in the danger? According to BOAT/US research, fuel is responsible for only 8% of boat fires. Wiring/electrical systems are the main culprit, accounting for 55%. You can read the details he http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/fire/default.asp I'd guess that at least 90% of the 8% that were the result of a fuel leak are the result of owner/operator stupidity--failure to bother to learn--or follow if they do know--such basic safety procedures as running blowers after fueling before starting the engine(s). So the REAL question isn't "what's your tolerance for risk"...it's "are to you too much of an idiot to learn and follow a few simple rules"...'cuz your odds of getting killed in a traffic accident on your way to and from the marina are a LOT higher than a gas related fire aboard if you use your brain as more than a hat rack. Fwiw, I've owned gas powered boats all my life. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
If you religisoulsly (sp?) use a blower for at least 5 min before
starting a gas engine in order to remove any fumes from the bilge or engine compartment, no one on board smokes and your galley is placed well away from the engine compartment you will probably never have a problem. The main thing is there will always be the risk of a horrendous explosion/fire with gas that just does not exist with a deisel engine. If the boat you are falling in love with has a gas engine and you can tolerate the risk, I'd say go for it but I'd look mighty hard for something else with deisel power. |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
Gas engines can be almost as safe as diesel if they are properly
maintained and operated. In my opinion that should not be the deciding factor. The real issues are power, torque, range and economy. There is a break point somewhere around 12 to 15,000 pounds of boat weight where gas engines will not develop sufficient power for decent, economical performance. The HP numbers are deceptive, but the bottom line is that you can not run a gas engine at more than about 50% of its rated horsepower without seriously compromising durability/longevity. Diesels however routinely cruise at 80 to 85% of maximum horsepower and use about half as much fuel. I found this out the hard way with my previous boat which was powered with twin 350 hp gas engines and weighed about 22,000 pounds. Performance and range were never at a level that I was happy with, and fuel consumption was 35 to 40 gph. With 350 hp diesels, cruising speed would have been in the mid to high 20s, fuel consumption around 25 gph, and cruising range almost doubled. |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
wrote in message oups.com... Gas engines can be almost as safe as diesel if they are properly maintained and operated. In my opinion that should not be the deciding factor. The real issues are power, torque, range and economy. There is a break point somewhere around 12 to 15,000 pounds of boat weight where gas engines will not develop sufficient power for decent, economical performance. The HP numbers are deceptive, but the bottom line is that you can not run a gas engine at more than about 50% of its rated horsepower without seriously compromising durability/longevity. Diesels however routinely cruise at 80 to 85% of maximum horsepower and use about half as much fuel. Hmmm.....the 6400 lb displacement, 27' cruiser I'm considering is powered by a single 250 hp gas engine. Would you say that it is underpowered? -Greg |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
"Capri" wrote in
oups.com: If you religisoulsly (sp?) use a blower for at least 5 min before starting a gas engine in order to remove any fumes from the bilge or engine compartment, no one on board smokes and your galley is placed well away from the engine compartment you will probably never have a problem. The main thing is there will always be the risk of a horrendous explosion/fire with gas that just does not exist with a deisel engine. If the boat you are falling in love with has a gas engine and you can tolerate the risk, I'd say go for it but I'd look mighty hard for something else with deisel power. Don't forget to add to this list of ignition starters of the gas fumes the thermostat points in that electric heater in the cabin that's keeping the pipes from freezing. Every time those points open, if the glowing coils don't set the bomb off, the arc from the thermostat points opening easily would. All my cars and truck are diesel. I'd have a diesel lawn mower, but they're too big for my tiny lot. -- Larry |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
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Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
"Dene" dene@(nospam) ipns.com wrote in news:2s2dnXULnOa_4M3eRVn-
: Would you say that it is underpowered? It's overpowered at $4/gallon!....(c; -- Larry |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (includingpowerplant)
Larry wrote:
Don't forget to add to this list of ignition starters of the gas fumes the thermostat points in that electric heater in the cabin that's keeping the pipes from freezing. Every time those points open, if the glowing coils don't set the bomb off, the arc from the thermostat points opening easily would. I'm sorry, Larry...but Horsefeathers! Something like that could only happen if you were stupid enough to put the heater in the engine compartment--and then only if you had a fuel leak. All switches, thermostats etc that are installed in the engine compartment or in the same compartment as the fuel tank are spark protected. Gas engines aren't anywhere near as fuel efficient as diesel engines, but they're every bit as safe if you follow a few very simple rules. Most fires are caused by bad/faulty/neglected wiring. Diesel powered boats are no more immune from that than gas powered boats. And it's a myth that any fire on a gas powered boat will cause it to explode...they don't unless the fuel tank or a fuel line is ruptured, which is rare. A 250 hp gas engine on a 28' PERFORMANCE cruiser is totally appropriate...although a he might be smart to go with a larger engine that would provide the same performance at 2/3-3/4 power (the only thng you were right about is, gas engines don't profit from much running at WOT). The only question should be, can he afford the fuel to run it, or should he settle for something designed to be slower and more economical? The answer to that depends on how he plans to use the boat. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
"charliekilo" wrote in message .. . I'm considering the purchase of a performance cruiser in the 40-42 foot range: I'm looking at Sea Ray, Cruisers, Formula and Rinker all with gasoline engines. I realize that gasoline engines can pose more of a fire hazard than diesel but what I'm curious about is in modern vessels, how significant is the difference in the danger? The boat will be used more as a weekend getaway on a medium-sized inland lake than as a cruiser so I thought gas engines would be more economical in the mid to short-term. i.e. rather significant lower cost of acquisition. Another VERY GOOD reason to go diesel will be the ability to resell the boat at a good price. Gas powered 40 footers are a drag on the used boat market. They depreciate at a higher rate and there is a very limited market for them. Your safety concerns are good but combine them with eventually selling the boat and you will go diesel. |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
Hmmm.....the 6400 lb displacement, 27' cruiser I'm considering is powered by
a single 250 hp gas engine. Would you say that it is underpowered? It depends what kind of performance and engine durability you are expecting. I have a 5000 lb I/O cuddy with a 5.7L 260 hp engine. At 3400 RPM it cruises at 24 kts in flat water which I regard as OK but nothing exceptional. It burns 13 gph at that speed and has been reasonably reliable. The point of my previous post was that there is an upper weight limit where it becomes impossible to get adequate performance from gas engines, even with fuel injected big blocks. At 6400 lbs you are well under that limit but a bit underpowered unless you go to twins or bigger engine. Twins become difficult to maintain in a boat that size because of close engine spacing. |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
Can someone explain to me why many people who buy a boat are always in such
a damned hurry to "get there"? ...... I think how awful it is every time I see some nice trawler in the ICW plowing up a big bow wave it shouldn't have as its owner has his twin 300hp diesels just cranked up hard. Fast Trawler? Isn't that an oxymoron?? Larry, aren't you the guy who used to enjoy zipping around Charleston Harbor in your 50 mph jet boat? Fun, right? And sometimes you just need to get somewhere... |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
You meet all types, I finished my first ocean crossing in May to
Hawaii and was very proud that I had used about 12 gallons of diesel and 5 gallons of gas for the generator in the 20 day crossing, and that included motoring the last 80 miles to make it in time to take my wife on mothers day out for dessert on mothers day just at dusk. I then met the second cruiser, out of hundreds in our year of cursing that was a bit if a sour puss. I was boasting of what I thought was minimal fuel consumption, and informed by this cruiser that I probably spent too much time on the radio and had very expensive ice cubes, and that he could have circumnavigated with the same amount of fuel. O well, there is always someone...... I agree with Peggy whole heartedly. A large part of safety is knowing what you have and how to deal with it. The type of use you describe: "The boat will be used more as a weekend getaway on a medium-sized inland lake than as a cruiser so I thought gas engines would be more economical in the mid to short-term. i.e. rather significant lower cost of acquisition." With the price of gas these days you may be able to get into a very comfortable and much larger boat then a diesel powered vessel. The big question for me, is will you have enough $$$ left over after purchasing it to use it. If you want a comfortable boat and you don't plan on many miles, and plan on keeping it for a long period of time. Then gas powered seems to be the most economical. If you don't do much distance cruising it may take you years to recoup the additional cost of the diesel. But I do love the simplicity of my diesel truck and boat. What option will get you out on the water more? John |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
wrote in message
oups.com... You meet all types, I finished my first ocean crossing in May to Hawaii and was very proud that I had used about 12 gallons of diesel and 5 gallons of gas for the generator in the 20 day crossing, and that included motoring the last 80 miles to make it in time to take my wife on mothers day out for dessert on mothers day just at dusk. I then met the second cruiser, out of hundreds in our year of cursing that was a bit if a sour puss. I was boasting of what I thought was minimal fuel consumption, and informed by this cruiser that I probably spent too much time on the radio and had very expensive ice cubes, and that he could have circumnavigated with the same amount of fuel. O well, there is always someone...... I agree with Peggy whole heartedly. A large part of safety is knowing what you have and how to deal with it. The type of use you describe: "The boat will be used more as a weekend getaway on a medium-sized inland lake than as a cruiser so I thought gas engines would be more economical in the mid to short-term. i.e. rather significant lower cost of acquisition." With the price of gas these days you may be able to get into a very comfortable and much larger boat then a diesel powered vessel. The big question for me, is will you have enough $$$ left over after purchasing it to use it. If you want a comfortable boat and you don't plan on many miles, and plan on keeping it for a long period of time. Then gas powered seems to be the most economical. If you don't do much distance cruising it may take you years to recoup the additional cost of the diesel. But I do love the simplicity of my diesel truck and boat. What option will get you out on the water more? John So far, you guys have helped me "squat" about 50% for gas, 50% against. LOL! On any given weekend, the boat wouldn't be motored any more than 20 miles on average - then anchored for the weekend. I'm not sure if a $50k+ differential in price would be worth it over a 2 - 3 year period. Another issue I'm having, FWIW, is that this boat would be replacing a second home on a southereastern island (which we just sold last week) in which we earned a 545% ROI over 10 years...I sure hate to buy something that depreciates but we'd like something to get away for the weekends and is only 20 minutes away from home and office. If I were cruising the intercostal, I'd get the diesel without question. Still perplexed in Austin, TX, Miles |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
m... wrote: The type of use you describe: "The boat will be used more as a weekend getaway on a medium-sized inland lake than as a cruiser so I thought gas engines would be more economical in the mid to short-term. i.e. rather significant lower cost of acquisition." The major difference between sailors and powerboaters: When sailors take their boats out, they take 'em out to sail 'em...they're underway most of the time. Yes, they do spend some time in anchorages, but SAILING is the reason they own the boat. Sailing doesn't burn fuel. Powerboaters, otoh (except for ski boat owners) are destination boaters...they take their boats out to go somewhere. On a lake, that usually means a cove where they can drop the anchor or raft with other boats, toss out the float toys, turn on the stereo and stay there for the weekend. Contrary to what most sailors think, that kind of use doesn't burn a whole lot of fuel either. In fact, I suspect there were weekends when my generator burned more fuel than my engines did. Nor is that kind of use particularly good for diesel engines...they like to run hard and long...they don't particularly like nothing but "cold start/short hop" use (check out the diesel cars that are never used for anything but carpool and errands...their back bumpers are always covered in black smoke and a lot of 'em clatter). Gas engines don't have a problem with type of use. And they're a lot better for pulling your kids on a tube or a wakeboard, too. So for your intended use, I'd go with the gas engine...IMO it'll be the most economical in the long run. And take a USCG Aux or US Power Squadron boating safety course! Just my $.02 worth... -- Peggie Just a couple of personal points after reading your post: You're exactly correct about how we'll use our boat - find a cove and stay for the weekend. If we go to the far reaches of the lake, we'll motor maybe 7-9 miles each way. Secondly, I for one, NEVER thought I'd be looking at a power boat. I've been a sailor since I was three years old, first sailing a Rebel, an assortment of pocket cruisers, raced 470s in college, crewed on a competitive Hobie 33 for several seasons, sailed up the east coast, from Hilton Head, SC to Gloucester, MA on a Cheoy Lee Clipper 36 and lastly, sailed the Grenadines for a month on a 55 foot custom full keel double-ender two years ago. I never even wanted to step foot on a fuel guzzling "stink pot" - but suddenly I find myself getting lazy. :) That and the fact that I want a little more luxury and comfort than a moderate sized sailboat can provide...and three flat screen televisions on *one* boat, how cool is that! LOL |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote: The major difference between sailors and powerboaters: Powerboaters get in their boat to get someplace. Sailors get on their boat and they're already there. We greatly enjoy leaving the anchorage a few hours early and sailing at low to no speed out in the Bay. There's little difference between sitting at anchor and sitting in the middle of the Bay, except that no one's going to care what we wear and I get the satisfaction of squeezing the most out of Momma's teasing. Even when there's wind, we'll sail beam reaches until sunset, returning to the dock rested and rejuvenated. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (including powerplant)
In article ,
"charliekilo" wrote: Another issue I'm having, FWIW, is that this boat would be replacing a second home snip but we'd like something to get away for the weekends and is only 20 minutes away from home and office. If I were cruising the intercostal, I'd get the diesel without question. Still perplexed in Austin, TX, Miles I'd say gas then, for the reason Peggie listed. You'll hardly get diesels warmed up, and fuel turnover will be low enough that you'll probably have algae problems. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Newbie Question: 40' Performance Cruiser question (includingpowerplant)
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