Hi all,

Anyone knows the brand name of the little booster pump used in this
kit?

http://www.northeastmarineelectronic...OD&ProdID=1897

Another question: If I get this kit, what is the point of putting a
5micron filter before a 30micron one?. Shouldn't the 5 micron be
enough to stop everything?. Anything that get through the 5 micron is
not going to be stopped by the 30 micron so why have it?

Thanks,
Jeannette
Bristol 32, Puerto Escondido, Mexico
http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 02:44:38 GMT, jeannette
wrote:

Anyone knows the brand name of the little booster pump used in this
kit?

No, but any small pump, like the "one faucet" ones will work. Of
course they, and the one sold with the kit, don't work worth a durn
(more later).

Another question: If I get this kit, what is the point of putting a
5micron filter before a 30micron one?. Shouldn't the 5 micron be
enough to stop everything?. Anything that get through the 5 micron is
not going to be stopped by the 30 micron so why have it?

It's not done that way. The 30 micron goes BEFORE the 5 micron.
Believe me, both filters will need regular cleaning. For the "believe
me part" - I used a watermaker with my own silty water kit (more
later) every day, with occasional breaks while in marinas, for 2
years. Made water in clean ocean, fairly clean bay, dirty bay and even
filthy canal. And no to some of the have-to-UV-or-sterilize folks. The
watermaker water went straight into the water tank, then into us with
absolutely nothing done to it. We're still here and healthy.

Now, here's the "later" from our old web pages.....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
A watermaker is W*O*N*D*E*R*F*U*L if you plan to spend a lot of time
away from "civilization". We do, so our watermaker is way up there on
our list of glad-we-gots. Our Pur 40E is the only one I have
experience with, so don't know if it's the best or not. I do know it's
worked fine running 4 or 5 hours per day for about a year. The only
time it's touched is to put a bit of silicon grease on the shaft every
now and then, and cleaning the prefilters. "They" say these things
have to be run a bit daily (or be pickled) for trouble free operation.
Must be true. Others we've talked to that run them rarely and/or have
one so large that they run them say a half hour every other day
complain.

However.... The watermaker was the only thing that required some
"adjustments" before we were totally satisfied. Here's the basic
story.

Our new watermaker came with a 30-micron prefilter and instructions to
use only in "clean sea water". There is a "silty water kit" that is
overpriced, even by marine standards. It consists of another
prefilter, with a 5-micron element, and a small centrifugal pump The
pump is to make up for the reduced flow through the extra filter. Now
one can make water anyplace except where there's oil or chlorine in
the water. The latter is pretty rare in bays and canals! So is the
former for that matter, especially when the water intake is about 2 ft
underwater.

An Omni under sink or similar filter and 5-micron elements from a
place like Walmart, and a small centrifugal faucet pump from a marine
or RV place is much less than half the price.

WARNING! Do not use paper filter elements! Use only poly. Paper can
break up and get into the membrane.

It all worked, but there were problems with cavitation in the
filters, causing POPS! of air going though the membrane. Water
production seemed fine, but we opened the air bleed on the watermaker
pretty often. Taking a break here, PUR seems to say air in the thing
cuts down on production and is undesirable, but does no harm. Those
marine chain store advisors say air explodes though the membrane and
will damage it. In either case we need a good flow of water though the
system.

Without going though all the fiddling with it all, the final solution
was to feed the system from our sal****er pump and add an accumulator.
The pump is a regular Shur-Flo pressure water pump; the accumulator
keeps it from short cycling and assures there's always a pressure feed
to the prefilters.

Simply, here's the setup for trouble free freshwater from pretty much
anything you're floating in, in order of connection.

Thruhull
Strainer
Pressure water pump (1.8 gpm or so Shur-Flo)
2-gal accumulator tank
30-Micron prefilter
5-Micron prefilter
Watermaker

The prefilters are after the pump for two reasons. We use the
sal****er pump for other things so the prefilters would need cleaning
much more often, and they're really made to work under pressure, not
vacuum.

Without the accumulator, the sal****er pump would constantly cycle
every few seconds. Not good for the pump, aggravating to the ear,
extra current draw and the watermaker will "suck down" water pressure
to below zero. With the 2-gal accumulator, our pump cycles on for
about 21 seconds after about 2-1/2 minutes off. Water pressure never
drops below 10-psi. I'm sure the regular 1 or 2 qt accumulator would
work fine; the pump would just cycle more often.


Ramblings and Opinions
Here's the standard disclaimer. This is stuff I've learned from
researching and personal experience. It works, so I'm right. I'm sure
there are many other "rights" to choose from.

Size your watermaker so it'll run several hours a day, and run it
every day. It's going to cost X Amp Hours per gallon of water,
regardless of how many gallons per hour. Do follow the manual and run
though enough product water to fill the prefilters and membrane each
shutdown, about 3-qts in our case. This keeps the creepy-crawlies from
growing in there. Also keeps the smell of said creepy-crawlies away.
PEEEEEUUUUUUU!!!!!

Put your raw water instake as deep as possible to get away from
floating crud, including oil. I tee'd into the engine intake. Get the
extra 5-micron filter. It just doesn't make sense to cut out 95% of
the places you could make water. Okay, why 95%? I don't know. Sounds
good. Thing is, how much of the time is one in "clean sea water"?
Hardly ever is probably the answer for most of us.

I hear about "pickling" the thing as if it were some dark ages
torture. You just put a couple caps of powder into a couple quarts of
water and let the watermaker suck it through. Of course pickling is a
good argument for running every day. It should be pickled if not used
for more than 3 days in warm water, a week in cold.

I was concerned about replacement prefilter elements, and their cost.
No need. They can be cleaned over and over and over. The criteria is
they're okay as long as they're still firm and not collapsing. I
changed ours after a year - just seemed the thing to do even though
they were still firm and looked good after many cleanings.

Sal****er pressure pump and accumulator is better'n sliced bread!
Assured good water flow, plus longer time between prefilter cleaning.

Rick

This is one of those posts that I think,
I wade through a lot of chaff, but sooner or later, I come to the
wheat. Thanks to Rick for putting it up.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 07:40:04 -0600, Rick Morel
wrote:

///
It's not done that way. The 30 micron goes BEFORE the 5 micron.
Believe me, both filters will need regular cleaning. For the "believe
me part" - I used a watermaker with my own silty water kit (more
later) every day, with occasional breaks while in marinas, for 2
years. Made water in clean ocean, fairly clean bay, dirty bay and even
filthy canal. And no to some of the have-to-UV-or-sterilize folks. The
watermaker water went straight into the water tank, then into us with
absolutely nothing done to it. We're still here and healthy.

Now, here's the "later" from our old web pages.....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
A watermaker is W*O*N*D*E*R*F*U*L if you plan to spend a lot of time
away from "civilization". We do, so our watermaker is way up there on
our list of glad-we-gots. Our Pur 40E is the only one I have
experience with, so don't know if it's the best or not. I do know it's
worked fine running 4 or 5 hours per day for about a year. The only
time it's touched is to put a bit of silicon grease on the shaft every
now and then, and cleaning the prefilters. "They" say these things
have to be run a bit daily (or be pickled) for trouble free operation.
Must be true. Others we've talked to that run them rarely and/or have
one so large that they run them say a half hour every other day
complain.

However.... The watermaker was the only thing that required some
"adjustments" before we were totally satisfied. Here's the basic
story.

Our new watermaker came with a 30-micron prefilter and instructions to
use only in "clean sea water". There is a "silty water kit" that is
overpriced, even by marine standards. It consists of another
prefilter, with a 5-micron element, and a small centrifugal pump The
pump is to make up for the reduced flow through the extra filter. Now
one can make water anyplace except where there's oil or chlorine in
the water. The latter is pretty rare in bays and canals! So is the
former for that matter, especially when the water intake is about 2 ft
underwater.

An Omni under sink or similar filter and 5-micron elements from a
place like Walmart, and a small centrifugal faucet pump from a marine
or RV place is much less than half the price.

WARNING! Do not use paper filter elements! Use only poly. Paper can
break up and get into the membrane.

It all worked, but there were problems with cavitation in the
filters, causing POPS! of air going though the membrane. Water
production seemed fine, but we opened the air bleed on the watermaker
pretty often. Taking a break here, PUR seems to say air in the thing
cuts down on production and is undesirable, but does no harm. Those
marine chain store advisors say air explodes though the membrane and
will damage it. In either case we need a good flow of water though the
system.

Without going though all the fiddling with it all, the final solution
was to feed the system from our sal****er pump and add an accumulator.
The pump is a regular Shur-Flo pressure water pump; the accumulator
keeps it from short cycling and assures there's always a pressure feed
to the prefilters.

Simply, here's the setup for trouble free freshwater from pretty much
anything you're floating in, in order of connection.

Thruhull
Strainer
Pressure water pump (1.8 gpm or so Shur-Flo)
2-gal accumulator tank
30-Micron prefilter
5-Micron prefilter
Watermaker

The prefilters are after the pump for two reasons. We use the
sal****er pump for other things so the prefilters would need cleaning
much more often, and they're really made to work under pressure, not
vacuum.

Without the accumulator, the sal****er pump would constantly cycle
every few seconds. Not good for the pump, aggravating to the ear,
extra current draw and the watermaker will "suck down" water pressure
to below zero. With the 2-gal accumulator, our pump cycles on for
about 21 seconds after about 2-1/2 minutes off. Water pressure never
drops below 10-psi. I'm sure the regular 1 or 2 qt accumulator would
work fine; the pump would just cycle more often.


Ramblings and Opinions
Here's the standard disclaimer. This is stuff I've learned from
researching and personal experience. It works, so I'm right. I'm sure
there are many other "rights" to choose from.

Size your watermaker so it'll run several hours a day, and run it
every day. It's going to cost X Amp Hours per gallon of water,
regardless of how many gallons per hour. Do follow the manual and run
though enough product water to fill the prefilters and membrane each
shutdown, about 3-qts in our case. This keeps the creepy-crawlies from
growing in there. Also keeps the smell of said creepy-crawlies away.
PEEEEEUUUUUUU!!!!!

Put your raw water instake as deep as possible to get away from
floating crud, including oil. I tee'd into the engine intake. Get the
extra 5-micron filter. It just doesn't make sense to cut out 95% of
the places you could make water. Okay, why 95%? I don't know. Sounds
good. Thing is, how much of the time is one in "clean sea water"?
Hardly ever is probably the answer for most of us.

I hear about "pickling" the thing as if it were some dark ages
torture. You just put a couple caps of powder into a couple quarts of
water and let the watermaker suck it through. Of course pickling is a
good argument for running every day. It should be pickled if not used
for more than 3 days in warm water, a week in cold.

I was concerned about replacement prefilter elements, and their cost.
No need. They can be cleaned over and over and over. The criteria is
they're okay as long as they're still firm and not collapsing. I
changed ours after a year - just seemed the thing to do even though
they were still firm and looked good after many cleanings.

Sal****er pressure pump and accumulator is better'n sliced bread!
Assured good water flow, plus longer time between prefilter cleaning.

Rick

I have been thinking about this and have an idea for a silt/oil seperator
that would not have an element. 3-6" diameter PVC pipe 24" long with inlet
4" from the bottom end and outlet 4" from the top end. Verticly mounted near
centerline of boat. The heavy stuff settles out and the floaty stuff hangs
above the outlet. Caps on ends for cleaning.
This would get the worst stuff out.
- Allen

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. Answered all my questions and more.

Jeannette
Bristol 32, Puerto Escondido, Mexico
http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 07:40:04 -0600, Rick Morel
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 02:44:38 GMT, jeannette
wrote:

Anyone knows the brand name of the little booster pump used in this
kit?

No, but any small pump, like the "one faucet" ones will work. Of
course they, and the one sold with the kit, don't work worth a durn
(more later).

Another question: If I get this kit, what is the point of putting a
5micron filter before a 30micron one?. Shouldn't the 5 micron be
enough to stop everything?. Anything that get through the 5 micron is
not going to be stopped by the 30 micron so why have it?

It's not done that way. The 30 micron goes BEFORE the 5 micron.
Believe me, both filters will need regular cleaning. For the "believe
me part" - I used a watermaker with my own silty water kit (more
later) every day, with occasional breaks while in marinas, for 2
years. Made water in clean ocean, fairly clean bay, dirty bay and even
filthy canal. And no to some of the have-to-UV-or-sterilize folks. The
watermaker water went straight into the water tank, then into us with
absolutely nothing done to it. We're still here and healthy.

Now, here's the "later" from our old web pages.....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
A watermaker is W*O*N*D*E*R*F*U*L if you plan to spend a lot of time
away from "civilization". We do, so our watermaker is way up there on
our list of glad-we-gots. Our Pur 40E is the only one I have
experience with, so don't know if it's the best or not. I do know it's
worked fine running 4 or 5 hours per day for about a year. The only
time it's touched is to put a bit of silicon grease on the shaft every
now and then, and cleaning the prefilters. "They" say these things
have to be run a bit daily (or be pickled) for trouble free operation.
Must be true. Others we've talked to that run them rarely and/or have
one so large that they run them say a half hour every other day
complain.

However.... The watermaker was the only thing that required some
"adjustments" before we were totally satisfied. Here's the basic
story.

Our new watermaker came with a 30-micron prefilter and instructions to
use only in "clean sea water". There is a "silty water kit" that is
overpriced, even by marine standards. It consists of another
prefilter, with a 5-micron element, and a small centrifugal pump The
pump is to make up for the reduced flow through the extra filter. Now
one can make water anyplace except where there's oil or chlorine in
the water. The latter is pretty rare in bays and canals! So is the
former for that matter, especially when the water intake is about 2 ft
underwater.

An Omni under sink or similar filter and 5-micron elements from a
place like Walmart, and a small centrifugal faucet pump from a marine
or RV place is much less than half the price.

WARNING! Do not use paper filter elements! Use only poly. Paper can
break up and get into the membrane.

It all worked, but there were problems with cavitation in the
filters, causing POPS! of air going though the membrane. Water
production seemed fine, but we opened the air bleed on the watermaker
pretty often. Taking a break here, PUR seems to say air in the thing
cuts down on production and is undesirable, but does no harm. Those
marine chain store advisors say air explodes though the membrane and
will damage it. In either case we need a good flow of water though the
system.

Without going though all the fiddling with it all, the final solution
was to feed the system from our sal****er pump and add an accumulator.
The pump is a regular Shur-Flo pressure water pump; the accumulator
keeps it from short cycling and assures there's always a pressure feed
to the prefilters.

Simply, here's the setup for trouble free freshwater from pretty much
anything you're floating in, in order of connection.

Thruhull
Strainer
Pressure water pump (1.8 gpm or so Shur-Flo)
2-gal accumulator tank
30-Micron prefilter
5-Micron prefilter
Watermaker

The prefilters are after the pump for two reasons. We use the
sal****er pump for other things so the prefilters would need cleaning
much more often, and they're really made to work under pressure, not
vacuum.

Without the accumulator, the sal****er pump would constantly cycle
every few seconds. Not good for the pump, aggravating to the ear,
extra current draw and the watermaker will "suck down" water pressure
to below zero. With the 2-gal accumulator, our pump cycles on for
about 21 seconds after about 2-1/2 minutes off. Water pressure never
drops below 10-psi. I'm sure the regular 1 or 2 qt accumulator would
work fine; the pump would just cycle more often.


Ramblings and Opinions
Here's the standard disclaimer. This is stuff I've learned from
researching and personal experience. It works, so I'm right. I'm sure
there are many other "rights" to choose from.

Size your watermaker so it'll run several hours a day, and run it
every day. It's going to cost X Amp Hours per gallon of water,
regardless of how many gallons per hour. Do follow the manual and run
though enough product water to fill the prefilters and membrane each
shutdown, about 3-qts in our case. This keeps the creepy-crawlies from
growing in there. Also keeps the smell of said creepy-crawlies away.
PEEEEEUUUUUUU!!!!!

Put your raw water instake as deep as possible to get away from
floating crud, including oil. I tee'd into the engine intake. Get the
extra 5-micron filter. It just doesn't make sense to cut out 95% of
the places you could make water. Okay, why 95%? I don't know. Sounds
good. Thing is, how much of the time is one in "clean sea water"?
Hardly ever is probably the answer for most of us.

I hear about "pickling" the thing as if it were some dark ages
torture. You just put a couple caps of powder into a couple quarts of
water and let the watermaker suck it through. Of course pickling is a
good argument for running every day. It should be pickled if not used
for more than 3 days in warm water, a week in cold.

I was concerned about replacement prefilter elements, and their cost.
No need. They can be cleaned over and over and over. The criteria is
they're okay as long as they're still firm and not collapsing. I
changed ours after a year - just seemed the thing to do even though
they were still firm and looked good after many cleanings.

Sal****er pressure pump and accumulator is better'n sliced bread!
Assured good water flow, plus longer time between prefilter cleaning.

Rick

Does anyone know where to buy a PUR35 membrane and the cost?

Thanks

Jofra

I haven't really been reading this thread, but watching the headers and
wondering...why should silt be a problem in a watermaker?

I thought it only made sense to use watermakes well offshore where sea
water is deep and clean...never in coastal waters where the water is not
only shallow, but polluted by runoff...and besides, fresh water is
readily available at any marina, which puts it within only an hour or
two away at most.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Peggie Hall wrote:
I haven't really been reading this thread, but watching the headers and
wondering...why should silt be a problem in a watermaker?

I thought it only made sense to use watermakes well offshore where sea
water is deep and clean...never in coastal waters where the water is not
only shallow, but polluted by runoff...and besides, fresh water is
readily available at any marina, which puts it within only an hour or
two away at most.

Silt plugs up the pre-filters sooner and may foul the
membrane too.

In many parts of the world, potable fresh water isn't
available conveniently on shore in marinas or otherwise so
you may want to make water in coastal waters.

However, I wouldn't run a watermaker in silty water if
avoidable.

Evan Gatehouse

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 02:48:21 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

I haven't really been reading this thread, but watching the headers and
wondering...why should silt be a problem in a watermaker?

I thought it only made sense to use watermakes well offshore where sea
water is deep and clean...never in coastal waters where the water is not
only shallow, but polluted by runoff...and besides, fresh water is
readily available at any marina, which puts it within only an hour or
two away at most.

Silt isn't a problem in a watermaker if one has the extra prefilter,
etc. It's no big deal to pull the cartridges and wash them out with
the sal****er pump. As I had mentioned, they last a very long time
before needing replacement.

Cruisers of my type like to find those waaaay out-of-the-way places,
where the nearest marina, by sailboat, might be two days away or more;
and the stay could be 4 or 6 months or more. Also, lots of marinas
won't just give you water; you have to buy fuel and we sometimes
burned only a gallon or two in several months and many miles. Some
places outside the US will only sell water, and some of it you really
don't want to drink.

We have "made" water even during rare stays in marinas in South FL,
where the marina water was salty and/or looked like old tea.

Rick

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:36:37 -0800, Evan Gatehouse
wrote:

Silt plugs up the pre-filters sooner and may foul the
membrane too.

Yes to the former, no to the latter. The no is from the experience of
two years, as I had mentioned. Pull the cartridges, wash 'um out with
the sal****er hose, check their condition and stick 'um back in or
replace them if need be. Just takes a few minutes.


In many parts of the world, potable fresh water isn't
available conveniently on shore in marinas or otherwise so
you may want to make water in coastal waters.

True, and as I wrote in the previous post, some of us spend months
away from "civilization".

However, I wouldn't run a watermaker in silty water if
avoidable.

Why not? Been there, done that and will do it again. As an aside, our
Louisiana oil and gas platforms use huge watermakers now. Plenty of
them are in coastal waters and believe me, our coastal waters are as
muddy as can be, with usualy 0 to 1/2 foot visibility. Those platforms
clean their prefilters daily. Oh yes, the make around 10,000 gallons a
day!

Rick