Garland Gray II wrote:
Now that I think about it, the survey (it was a 6 month
old demonstrator boat) didn't make mention of this deficiency.

If the toilet is completely above the waterline, it wasn't.

It was almost completely below waterline.

In that case, it WAS!

I expect that the water between the vented loop and the bowl that is higher
than the top of the bowl eventually drains to the bowl, to be replaced by
air.

But not before it stagnates in the anaerobic environment inside the
hose...and could very well stay till it's flushed out if the wet/dry
valves in the toilet is working as it should. However, you're
overlooking the water that's also left in the intake tank between the
thru-hull and the top of the loop, that has nowhere to go till it's
flushed out when the seacock is opened again. I suspect that's where the
worst of the problem occurs.

It's easy to solve: Tee the head intake into the head sink drain. Flush
using sea water...then, when leaving the boat, after you've closed all
the seacocks, fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet.
Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the
sink, rinsing all the sea water out of the WHOLE system (just pouring
water down the toilet only rinses out the head discharge line...it
doesn't ever get into the intake). Or, you can flush with fresh water
all the time by keeping the seacock closed and adding water to the
sink..though you really don't gain anything over just flushing all the
sea water out before the boat sits.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Dave wrote:
First, if it's fairly well-known that air into the holding tank is
the key to odor-free operation, why doesn't one see more holding
tanks with two vent lines instead of one?

Tank locations don't always make two vents better than one. And, at
least as when it comes to OEM installations, cost. And, two vents
aren't necessarily better than one. A short straight vent 1" vent line
can keep a tank just as odor-free as two "standard" size 5/8"
vents...maybe even do a better job.

When it comes to venting a tank, there isn't a "one size fits all"
solution for every installation. 10 vents couldn't make some tanks
aerobic enough to prevent odor..tanks buried way low on a deep keel, or
the centerline of a large boat...tanks much deeper than about 20"...most
bladders... For some tanks, the only solution is an aeration system.

I'm also wondering whether a single vent tank might be improved by
putting a T fitting at the tank outlet and running a second vent hose
to the other side of the boat from where the current outlet runs.

That won't work...air flow would just be across the top of the tee
instead of going through the tank.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

I plumbed the heads just that way about 4 years ago...following your
suggestion . And rinse w/ fresh water religiously before leaving the boat.
But we are greeted w/ a stench each time. Perhaps the intake lines need a
clorox treatment since the replumbing was not done for the first year, but
I don't really want to send clorox to the tank (discharge goes straight
there).

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
news
Garland Gray II wrote:
Now that I think about it, the survey (it was a 6 month
old demonstrator boat) didn't make mention of this deficiency.

If the toilet is completely above the waterline, it wasn't.

It was almost completely below waterline.

In that case, it WAS!

I expect that the water between the vented loop and the bowl that is
higher than the top of the bowl eventually drains to the bowl, to be
replaced by air.

But not before it stagnates in the anaerobic environment inside the
hose...and could very well stay till it's flushed out if the wet/dry
valves in the toilet is working as it should. However, you're overlooking
the water that's also left in the intake tank between the thru-hull and
the top of the loop, that has nowhere to go till it's flushed out when the
seacock is opened again. I suspect that's where the worst of the problem
occurs.

It's easy to solve: Tee the head intake into the head sink drain. Flush
using sea water...then, when leaving the boat, after you've closed all the
seacocks, fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet. Because
the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink,
rinsing all the sea water out of the WHOLE system (just pouring water down
the toilet only rinses out the head discharge line...it doesn't ever get
into the intake). Or, you can flush with fresh water all the time by
keeping the seacock closed and adding water to the sink..though you really
don't gain anything over just flushing all the sea water out before the
boat sits.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Garland Gray II wrote:

I plumbed the heads just that way about 4 years ago...following your
suggestion . And rinse w/ fresh water religiously before leaving the boat.
But we are greeted w/ a stench each time. Perhaps the intake lines need a
clorox treatment since the replumbing was not done for the first year....

Noooo! If you plumbed your head intake to the sink drain line, and you
religiously flush ALL the sea water out of the system before the boat
will sit, you shouldn't have any odor in the first flush when you
return. If you do, we need to find out why and figure out how to
eliminate the problem. Email me: peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Peggie Hall wrote:


Noooo! If you plumbed your head intake to the sink drain line, and you
religiously flush ALL the sea water out of the system before the boat
will sit, you shouldn't have any odor in the first flush when you
return. If you do, we need to find out why and figure out how to
eliminate the problem. Email me: peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net.

Peggie,

We're considering a couple of different fresh water flushing arangements
for our system. If we use the "tee" to the sink, we would need to flush
with the drain plug in place to use salt water. Is that correct? In our
system, it would probably be easier to "tee" to a capped hose which
could be uncapped and stuck in a bucket when we want to flush with fresh
water. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea?

Also, can you recommend a good pump lubricant for a Raritan Compact II
head? I found some Wilcox Criton head lubricant, but it says it contains
mineral spirits which I don't think would be good for the parts.

Thanks

Cindy



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Cindy Ballreich wrote:

We're considering a couple of different fresh water flushing arangements
for our system. If we use the "tee" to the sink, we would need to flush
with the drain plug in place to use salt water. Is that correct?

Correct.

In our
system, it would probably be easier to "tee" to a capped hose which
could be uncapped and stuck in a bucket when we want to flush with fresh
water. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea?

Not a bad idea, but a lot more work than it needs to be unless you only
plan to use it to flush out the system before the boat will sit.

If you want to flush all the time with fresh water, and if teeing the
intake directly into the head sink drain is impractical, consider going
with this "Plan B:" Stuff an unvented bladder into any location that'll
work...connect the head intake to the bladder...tee the fill line for
the bladder into the head sink drain line using a garden hose y-valve
that you can get from any hardware store for about $3. When the bladder
needs refilling, open the y in the sink drain to go it, run water down
the sink. A y-valve in the head intake line--one side to the bladder,
the other to the thru-hull--will let you have it both ways...flush with
sea water while well away from shore in clean water...switch to the
bladder while in the marina or other waters polluted by runoff.


Also, can you recommend a good pump lubricant for a Raritan Compact II
head? I found some Wilcox Criton head lubricant, but it says it contains
mineral spirits which I don't think would be good for the parts.

Mineral spirits won't hurt 'em. Mineral OIL (baby oil) works just as
well and costs less.

But anything thin enough to be poured down the toilet is just gonna wash
out in a few flushes...it's a never ending battle. Every toilet leaves
the factory slathered with thick teflon grease that lasts at least a
full season, sometimes two season. So if you only want to have to lube
the toilet once a year, buy a tube of the stuff (SuperLube is what
Raritan uses, and IMO the best quality...but any teflon grease from bike
shops and swimming pool supply stores will do)...it'll cost you about $5
and one tube will last longer than you'll prob'ly keep the boat. Loosen
the hex nut on the top of the pump so you have access to the inside of
it...stick the nozzle of the tube in and give it healthy squirt. Pump a
couple of times to spread it all over the inside of the pump
cylinder...repeat if you want to...re-tighten the hex nut...you're done.
The toilet will pump smoothly all season without any need for any more
lubrication. Best time to do it: as part of spring recommissioning
preventive maintenance.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Peggie Hall wrote:

In our system, it would probably be easier to "tee" to a capped hose
which could be uncapped and stuck in a bucket when we want to flush
with fresh water. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea?

Not a bad idea, but a lot more work than it needs to be unless you only
plan to use it to flush out the system before the boat will sit.


Yes, this would only be used between trips. We don't have enough fresh
water on the boat to flush with it all the time. Besides, when were on a
trip the head gets used enough that smells aren't a problem.

Mineral spirits won't hurt 'em. Mineral OIL (baby oil) works just as
well and costs less.

But anything thin enough to be poured down the toilet is just gonna wash
out in a few flushes...it's a never ending battle. Every toilet leaves
the factory slathered with thick teflon grease that lasts at least a
full season, sometimes two season. So if you only want to have to lube
the toilet once a year, buy a tube of the stuff (SuperLube is what
Raritan uses, and IMO the best quality...but any teflon grease from bike
shops and swimming pool supply stores will do)...it'll cost you about $5
and one tube will last longer than you'll prob'ly keep the boat. Loosen
the hex nut on the top of the pump so you have access to the inside of
it...stick the nozzle of the tube in and give it healthy squirt. Pump a
couple of times to spread it all over the inside of the pump
cylinder...repeat if you want to...re-tighten the hex nut...you're done.
The toilet will pump smoothly all season without any need for any more
lubrication. Best time to do it: as part of spring recommissioning
preventive maintenance.

This is exactly the info I was looking for! Thanks!!

Cindy


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