Actually, at the time I didn't know better, so I did not install a vented
loop. I'm sure I thought you couldn't put one on the intake side. (This was
a catamaran, so heeling didn't make the risk greater. ) Now that I think
about it, the survey (it was a 6 month old demonstrator boat) didn't make
mention of this deficiency.

But let me ask you about a related "theory" I have. My old boat w/o a vented
loop had very little odor from the raw water after the head had not been
used for a week or two or more. Only briefly after the first flush. My
present boat w/ a vented loop has a much stronger odor from the raw water
for many flushes. The longer raw water line because of the way the vented
loop is run must affect this, but I wonder if the contact with air in the
vented loop doesn't cause a greater odor problem ?

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
. net...
Garland Gray II wrote:

I figured the rubber valve at top of the pump could leak and bypass
water. And you are certainly right about the possibility of the lever
being left in the wet position. My old boat csme with no vented loop, and
if someone was careless, the water would nearly fill the bowl.

So it's safe to assume that you DID install a vented loop? Which, btw,
should NOT be installed in the intake line between the thru-hull and the
pump..it has to go between the pump and the bowl...to replace the short
piece of hose the mfr uses to connect 'em. There are exceptions...electric
macerating toilets--in which case it's necessary to add an electric
solenoid valve--and some very high end manual toilets that have dual pumps
and don't have that short piece of hose.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Garland Gray II wrote:
Actually, at the time I didn't know better, so I did not install a
vented loop. I'm sure I thought you couldn't put one on the intake
side. (This was a catamaran, so heeling didn't make the risk
greater. ) Now that I think about it, the survey (it was a 6 month
old demonstrator boat) didn't make mention of this deficiency.

If the toilet is completely above the waterline, it wasn't.


But let me ask you about a related "theory" I have. My old boat w/o a
vented loop had very little odor from the raw water after the head
had not been used for a week or two or more. Only briefly after the
first flush. My present boat w/ a vented loop has a much stronger
odor from the raw water for many flushes. The longer raw water line
because of the way the vented loop is run must affect this, but I
wonder if the contact with air in the vented loop doesn't cause a
greater odor problem ?

The longer head intake line is likely to be the cause, because the
longer the line, the more sea water is left in it to sit and stagnate.
But the vented loop has nothing to do with it. For one thing, it doesn't
passively allow any air into the line, it only pulls air into a line
through which water is actively being pulled. But even if it did, adding
air (oxygen) would reduce odor, not increase it...'cuz the more aerobic
the conditions, the less odor can be produced.

However, if the vented loop is in the intake line between the thru-hull
and the pump, it is likely to create another problem: interfere with the
pump's ability to prime by introducing air into the line that the pump
is trying to start by priming. It needs to be between the pump and the
bowl where it can't interfere with toilet flushing because flush water
is being pushed, not pulled, from the pump to the bowl.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
. net...
Garland Gray II wrote:
Actually, at the time I didn't know better, so I did not install a
vented loop. I'm sure I thought you couldn't put one on the intake
side. (This was a catamaran, so heeling didn't make the risk
greater. ) Now that I think about it, the survey (it was a 6 month
old demonstrator boat) didn't make mention of this deficiency.

If the toilet is completely above the waterline, it wasn't.


It was almost completely below waterline.




But let me ask you about a related "theory" I have. My old boat w/o a
vented loop had very little odor from the raw water after the head
had not been used for a week or two or more. Only briefly after the
first flush. My present boat w/ a vented loop has a much stronger
odor from the raw water for many flushes. The longer raw water line
because of the way the vented loop is run must affect this, but I
wonder if the contact with air in the vented loop doesn't cause a
greater odor problem ?

The longer head intake line is likely to be the cause, because the longer
the line, the more sea water is left in it to sit and stagnate. But the
vented loop has nothing to do with it. For one thing, it doesn't passively
allow any air into the line, it only pulls air into a line through which
water is actively being pulled. But even if it did, adding air (oxygen)
would reduce odor, not increase it...'cuz the more aerobic the conditions,
the less odor can be produced.


I expect that the water between the vented loop and the bowl that is higher
than the top of the bowl eventually drains to the bowl, to be replaced by
air. But I'll trust your knowledge of bacteria.



However, if the vented loop is in the intake line between the thru-hull
and the pump, it is likely to create another problem: interfere with the
pump's ability to prime by introducing air into the line that the pump is
trying to start by priming. It needs to be between the pump and the bowl
where it can't interfere with toilet flushing because flush water is being
pushed, not pulled, from the pump to the bowl.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Garland Gray II wrote:
Now that I think about it, the survey (it was a 6 month
old demonstrator boat) didn't make mention of this deficiency.

If the toilet is completely above the waterline, it wasn't.

It was almost completely below waterline.

In that case, it WAS!

I expect that the water between the vented loop and the bowl that is higher
than the top of the bowl eventually drains to the bowl, to be replaced by
air.

But not before it stagnates in the anaerobic environment inside the
hose...and could very well stay till it's flushed out if the wet/dry
valves in the toilet is working as it should. However, you're
overlooking the water that's also left in the intake tank between the
thru-hull and the top of the loop, that has nowhere to go till it's
flushed out when the seacock is opened again. I suspect that's where the
worst of the problem occurs.

It's easy to solve: Tee the head intake into the head sink drain. Flush
using sea water...then, when leaving the boat, after you've closed all
the seacocks, fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet.
Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the
sink, rinsing all the sea water out of the WHOLE system (just pouring
water down the toilet only rinses out the head discharge line...it
doesn't ever get into the intake). Or, you can flush with fresh water
all the time by keeping the seacock closed and adding water to the
sink..though you really don't gain anything over just flushing all the
sea water out before the boat sits.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

I plumbed the heads just that way about 4 years ago...following your
suggestion . And rinse w/ fresh water religiously before leaving the boat.
But we are greeted w/ a stench each time. Perhaps the intake lines need a
clorox treatment since the replumbing was not done for the first year, but
I don't really want to send clorox to the tank (discharge goes straight
there).

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
news
Garland Gray II wrote:
Now that I think about it, the survey (it was a 6 month
old demonstrator boat) didn't make mention of this deficiency.

If the toilet is completely above the waterline, it wasn't.

It was almost completely below waterline.

In that case, it WAS!

I expect that the water between the vented loop and the bowl that is
higher than the top of the bowl eventually drains to the bowl, to be
replaced by air.

But not before it stagnates in the anaerobic environment inside the
hose...and could very well stay till it's flushed out if the wet/dry
valves in the toilet is working as it should. However, you're overlooking
the water that's also left in the intake tank between the thru-hull and
the top of the loop, that has nowhere to go till it's flushed out when the
seacock is opened again. I suspect that's where the worst of the problem
occurs.

It's easy to solve: Tee the head intake into the head sink drain. Flush
using sea water...then, when leaving the boat, after you've closed all the
seacocks, fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet. Because
the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink,
rinsing all the sea water out of the WHOLE system (just pouring water down
the toilet only rinses out the head discharge line...it doesn't ever get
into the intake). Or, you can flush with fresh water all the time by
keeping the seacock closed and adding water to the sink..though you really
don't gain anything over just flushing all the sea water out before the
boat sits.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Garland Gray II wrote:

I plumbed the heads just that way about 4 years ago...following your
suggestion . And rinse w/ fresh water religiously before leaving the boat.
But we are greeted w/ a stench each time. Perhaps the intake lines need a
clorox treatment since the replumbing was not done for the first year....

Noooo! If you plumbed your head intake to the sink drain line, and you
religiously flush ALL the sea water out of the system before the boat
will sit, you shouldn't have any odor in the first flush when you
return. If you do, we need to find out why and figure out how to
eliminate the problem. Email me: peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Peggie Hall wrote:


Noooo! If you plumbed your head intake to the sink drain line, and you
religiously flush ALL the sea water out of the system before the boat
will sit, you shouldn't have any odor in the first flush when you
return. If you do, we need to find out why and figure out how to
eliminate the problem. Email me: peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net.

Peggie,

We're considering a couple of different fresh water flushing arangements
for our system. If we use the "tee" to the sink, we would need to flush
with the drain plug in place to use salt water. Is that correct? In our
system, it would probably be easier to "tee" to a capped hose which
could be uncapped and stuck in a bucket when we want to flush with fresh
water. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea?

Also, can you recommend a good pump lubricant for a Raritan Compact II
head? I found some Wilcox Criton head lubricant, but it says it contains
mineral spirits which I don't think would be good for the parts.

Thanks

Cindy



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