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#1
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![]() "Peggie Hall" wrote in message . net... Garland Gray II wrote: Actually, at the time I didn't know better, so I did not install a vented loop. I'm sure I thought you couldn't put one on the intake side. (This was a catamaran, so heeling didn't make the risk greater. ) Now that I think about it, the survey (it was a 6 month old demonstrator boat) didn't make mention of this deficiency. If the toilet is completely above the waterline, it wasn't. It was almost completely below waterline. But let me ask you about a related "theory" I have. My old boat w/o a vented loop had very little odor from the raw water after the head had not been used for a week or two or more. Only briefly after the first flush. My present boat w/ a vented loop has a much stronger odor from the raw water for many flushes. The longer raw water line because of the way the vented loop is run must affect this, but I wonder if the contact with air in the vented loop doesn't cause a greater odor problem ? The longer head intake line is likely to be the cause, because the longer the line, the more sea water is left in it to sit and stagnate. But the vented loop has nothing to do with it. For one thing, it doesn't passively allow any air into the line, it only pulls air into a line through which water is actively being pulled. But even if it did, adding air (oxygen) would reduce odor, not increase it...'cuz the more aerobic the conditions, the less odor can be produced. I expect that the water between the vented loop and the bowl that is higher than the top of the bowl eventually drains to the bowl, to be replaced by air. But I'll trust your knowledge of bacteria. However, if the vented loop is in the intake line between the thru-hull and the pump, it is likely to create another problem: interfere with the pump's ability to prime by introducing air into the line that the pump is trying to start by priming. It needs to be between the pump and the bowl where it can't interfere with toilet flushing because flush water is being pushed, not pulled, from the pump to the bowl. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
#2
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Garland Gray II wrote:
Now that I think about it, the survey (it was a 6 month old demonstrator boat) didn't make mention of this deficiency. If the toilet is completely above the waterline, it wasn't. It was almost completely below waterline. In that case, it WAS! I expect that the water between the vented loop and the bowl that is higher than the top of the bowl eventually drains to the bowl, to be replaced by air. But not before it stagnates in the anaerobic environment inside the hose...and could very well stay till it's flushed out if the wet/dry valves in the toilet is working as it should. However, you're overlooking the water that's also left in the intake tank between the thru-hull and the top of the loop, that has nowhere to go till it's flushed out when the seacock is opened again. I suspect that's where the worst of the problem occurs. It's easy to solve: Tee the head intake into the head sink drain. Flush using sea water...then, when leaving the boat, after you've closed all the seacocks, fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing all the sea water out of the WHOLE system (just pouring water down the toilet only rinses out the head discharge line...it doesn't ever get into the intake). Or, you can flush with fresh water all the time by keeping the seacock closed and adding water to the sink..though you really don't gain anything over just flushing all the sea water out before the boat sits. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
#3
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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I plumbed the heads just that way about 4 years ago...following your
suggestion . And rinse w/ fresh water religiously before leaving the boat. But we are greeted w/ a stench each time. Perhaps the intake lines need a clorox treatment since the replumbing was not done for the first year, but I don't really want to send clorox to the tank (discharge goes straight there). "Peggie Hall" wrote in message news ![]() Garland Gray II wrote: Now that I think about it, the survey (it was a 6 month old demonstrator boat) didn't make mention of this deficiency. If the toilet is completely above the waterline, it wasn't. It was almost completely below waterline. In that case, it WAS! I expect that the water between the vented loop and the bowl that is higher than the top of the bowl eventually drains to the bowl, to be replaced by air. But not before it stagnates in the anaerobic environment inside the hose...and could very well stay till it's flushed out if the wet/dry valves in the toilet is working as it should. However, you're overlooking the water that's also left in the intake tank between the thru-hull and the top of the loop, that has nowhere to go till it's flushed out when the seacock is opened again. I suspect that's where the worst of the problem occurs. It's easy to solve: Tee the head intake into the head sink drain. Flush using sea water...then, when leaving the boat, after you've closed all the seacocks, fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing all the sea water out of the WHOLE system (just pouring water down the toilet only rinses out the head discharge line...it doesn't ever get into the intake). Or, you can flush with fresh water all the time by keeping the seacock closed and adding water to the sink..though you really don't gain anything over just flushing all the sea water out before the boat sits. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
#4
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Garland Gray II wrote:
I plumbed the heads just that way about 4 years ago...following your suggestion . And rinse w/ fresh water religiously before leaving the boat. But we are greeted w/ a stench each time. Perhaps the intake lines need a clorox treatment since the replumbing was not done for the first year.... Noooo! If you plumbed your head intake to the sink drain line, and you religiously flush ALL the sea water out of the system before the boat will sit, you shouldn't have any odor in the first flush when you return. If you do, we need to find out why and figure out how to eliminate the problem. Email me: peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
#5
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Peggie Hall wrote:
Noooo! If you plumbed your head intake to the sink drain line, and you religiously flush ALL the sea water out of the system before the boat will sit, you shouldn't have any odor in the first flush when you return. If you do, we need to find out why and figure out how to eliminate the problem. Email me: peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net. Peggie, We're considering a couple of different fresh water flushing arangements for our system. If we use the "tee" to the sink, we would need to flush with the drain plug in place to use salt water. Is that correct? In our system, it would probably be easier to "tee" to a capped hose which could be uncapped and stuck in a bucket when we want to flush with fresh water. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea? Also, can you recommend a good pump lubricant for a Raritan Compact II head? I found some Wilcox Criton head lubricant, but it says it contains mineral spirits which I don't think would be good for the parts. Thanks Cindy -- The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response. Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net |
#6
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Cindy Ballreich wrote:
We're considering a couple of different fresh water flushing arangements for our system. If we use the "tee" to the sink, we would need to flush with the drain plug in place to use salt water. Is that correct? Correct. In our system, it would probably be easier to "tee" to a capped hose which could be uncapped and stuck in a bucket when we want to flush with fresh water. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea? Not a bad idea, but a lot more work than it needs to be unless you only plan to use it to flush out the system before the boat will sit. If you want to flush all the time with fresh water, and if teeing the intake directly into the head sink drain is impractical, consider going with this "Plan B:" Stuff an unvented bladder into any location that'll work...connect the head intake to the bladder...tee the fill line for the bladder into the head sink drain line using a garden hose y-valve that you can get from any hardware store for about $3. When the bladder needs refilling, open the y in the sink drain to go it, run water down the sink. A y-valve in the head intake line--one side to the bladder, the other to the thru-hull--will let you have it both ways...flush with sea water while well away from shore in clean water...switch to the bladder while in the marina or other waters polluted by runoff. Also, can you recommend a good pump lubricant for a Raritan Compact II head? I found some Wilcox Criton head lubricant, but it says it contains mineral spirits which I don't think would be good for the parts. Mineral spirits won't hurt 'em. Mineral OIL (baby oil) works just as well and costs less. But anything thin enough to be poured down the toilet is just gonna wash out in a few flushes...it's a never ending battle. Every toilet leaves the factory slathered with thick teflon grease that lasts at least a full season, sometimes two season. So if you only want to have to lube the toilet once a year, buy a tube of the stuff (SuperLube is what Raritan uses, and IMO the best quality...but any teflon grease from bike shops and swimming pool supply stores will do)...it'll cost you about $5 and one tube will last longer than you'll prob'ly keep the boat. Loosen the hex nut on the top of the pump so you have access to the inside of it...stick the nozzle of the tube in and give it healthy squirt. Pump a couple of times to spread it all over the inside of the pump cylinder...repeat if you want to...re-tighten the hex nut...you're done. The toilet will pump smoothly all season without any need for any more lubrication. Best time to do it: as part of spring recommissioning preventive maintenance. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
#7
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Peggie Hall wrote:
In our system, it would probably be easier to "tee" to a capped hose which could be uncapped and stuck in a bucket when we want to flush with fresh water. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea? Not a bad idea, but a lot more work than it needs to be unless you only plan to use it to flush out the system before the boat will sit. Yes, this would only be used between trips. We don't have enough fresh water on the boat to flush with it all the time. Besides, when were on a trip the head gets used enough that smells aren't a problem. Mineral spirits won't hurt 'em. Mineral OIL (baby oil) works just as well and costs less. But anything thin enough to be poured down the toilet is just gonna wash out in a few flushes...it's a never ending battle. Every toilet leaves the factory slathered with thick teflon grease that lasts at least a full season, sometimes two season. So if you only want to have to lube the toilet once a year, buy a tube of the stuff (SuperLube is what Raritan uses, and IMO the best quality...but any teflon grease from bike shops and swimming pool supply stores will do)...it'll cost you about $5 and one tube will last longer than you'll prob'ly keep the boat. Loosen the hex nut on the top of the pump so you have access to the inside of it...stick the nozzle of the tube in and give it healthy squirt. Pump a couple of times to spread it all over the inside of the pump cylinder...repeat if you want to...re-tighten the hex nut...you're done. The toilet will pump smoothly all season without any need for any more lubrication. Best time to do it: as part of spring recommissioning preventive maintenance. This is exactly the info I was looking for! Thanks!! Cindy -- The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response. Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net |
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