A friend has offered me his old Pearson Vanguard 33' sailboat. It is in
good shape.
But, it needs a new engine. It has the original Atomic 4 gas.

What diesel engine would be the best replacement? How much do the diesels
cost? How much work is it the replace an old Atomic 4 in a 1968 year
sailboat? When replacing the engine, does the shaft, fuel tank etc also get
replaced?

Any other info???


Thanks,,, Tom

Tom, have you considered keeping the Atomic 4? Even if it can't be rebuilt,
it may make more sense to replace it with a working Atomic 4 than with a
diesel.

Safety is an issue that can and must be addressed in using gasoline, but
economically, a conversion to diesel will never make sense. As evidence of
this, compare the estimates of conversion cost to the cost of boats similar
to yours in size, age, and quality that already have diesels. You may find
it cheaper to buy a used boat with a diesel engine than to convert yours.
This will surely ignite some contrary opinions.

Good luck.

Chuck



Thomas Wentworth wrote:

A friend has offered me his old Pearson Vanguard 33' sailboat. It is in
good shape.
But, it needs a new engine. It has the original Atomic 4 gas.

What diesel engine would be the best replacement? How much do the diesels
cost? How much work is it the replace an old Atomic 4 in a 1968 year
sailboat? When replacing the engine, does the shaft, fuel tank etc also
get replaced?

Any other info???


Thanks,,, Tom

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
A friend has offered me his old Pearson Vanguard 33' sailboat.

You mean, for free?

... It is in good shape.
But, it needs a new engine. It has the original Atomic 4 gas.


I bet there's a lot of other stuff it "needs," too. But an
engine could well be the biggest single item.

What diesel engine would be the best replacement?

There's a drop-in diesel replacement for the Atomic 4, IIRC
it's called a Beta. Fits in exactly the same; but you also
need to put in a new fuel tank & piping.


... How much do the diesels
cost?

More than the boat.

... How much work is it the replace an old Atomic 4 in a 1968 year
sailboat? When replacing the engine, does the shaft, fuel tank etc also
get replaced?


Shaft & prop, no. Pretty much everything else, yes.


ck wrote:
Tom, have you considered keeping the Atomic 4? Even if it can't be rebuilt,
it may make more sense to replace it with a working Atomic 4 than with a
diesel.


Depends on how bad you want to use the boat.

Safety is an issue that can and must be addressed in using gasoline, but
economically, a conversion to diesel will never make sense.

It makes good sense *if* you plan to use the boat for a long
enough time to amortize the diesel. Simply dropping in a
diesel will not raise the market value of the boat to cover
the cost of the new diesel engine, agreed. But then, that's
true of every kind of upgrade for the boat, especially
electronics... and people go hog-wild over all that stuff.



.... As evidence of
this, compare the estimates of conversion cost to the cost of boats similar
to yours in size, age, and quality that already have diesels. You may find
it cheaper to buy a used boat with a diesel engine than to convert yours.

Possibly so, unless he is getting the Vanguard as a gift.


This will surely ignite some contrary opinions.


Was this one contrary enough for ya?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Thomas Wentworth wrote:

A friend has offered me his old Pearson Vanguard 33' sailboat.


You mean, for free?

... It is in good shape.
But, it needs a new engine. It has the original Atomic 4 gas.


I bet there's a lot of other stuff it "needs," too. But an engine could
well be the biggest single item.

What diesel engine would be the best replacement?


There's a drop-in diesel replacement for the Atomic 4, IIRC it's called
a Beta. Fits in exactly the same; but you also need to put in a new fuel
tank & piping.


... How much do the diesels
cost?


More than the boat.

... How much work is it the replace an old Atomic 4 in a 1968 year
sailboat? When replacing the engine, does the shaft, fuel tank etc also
get replaced?


Shaft & prop, no. Pretty much everything else, yes.


ck wrote:

Tom, have you considered keeping the Atomic 4? Even if it can't be
rebuilt,
it may make more sense to replace it with a working Atomic 4 than with a
diesel.


Depends on how bad you want to use the boat.

Safety is an issue that can and must be addressed in using gasoline, but
economically, a conversion to diesel will never make sense.


It makes good sense *if* you plan to use the boat for a long enough time
to amortize the diesel. Simply dropping in a diesel will not raise the
market value of the boat to cover the cost of the new diesel engine,
agreed. But then, that's true of every kind of upgrade for the boat,
especially electronics... and people go hog-wild over all that stuff.



.... As evidence of
this, compare the estimates of conversion cost to the cost of boats
similar
to yours in size, age, and quality that already have diesels. You may
find
it cheaper to buy a used boat with a diesel engine than to convert yours.


Possibly so, unless he is getting the Vanguard as a gift.


This will surely ignite some contrary opinions.


Was this one contrary enough for ya?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Lots of folks with old boats rip out the Atomics and replace them with
outboards. It gives back some stowage and is a cheap alternative if you
like to sail. Of course if you are a motor cruiser or you intend to
venture away from the coast the outboard option is less feasible. If
it's a free boat in good shape, I'd check out the various options. It
is a classic boat.

Before doing anything It would be nice to tally the cost of refurbishing the
Atomic 4 Vs replacing it with a new 3 cylinder's diesel.
The big question is how much would your boat sells for on today's market.
The cost of installing a new diesel will not be recoupable when you sell
your boat.
By having a new diesel installed you will gain satisfaction and
dependability. Conversely rebuilding the Atomic 4 may well suit your sailing
needs.
Here the approximate cost of replacing the A4 with a 3 cylinder's diesel:
Diesel engine = $7000.00, shaft = $200.00, propeller $350.00, fuel tank
$200.00? plus re-bedding to suit the new engine , shaft and alignment many
more imponderables plus labor. Not to mention that you may have to replace
the strut.
I estimate that by the time you are finished you will have spent around
$7800.00 without the cost of labor. In some case $10000.00 is not
uncommon.
The later figure is very conservative. You can easily exceed that amount.
Depending on your purchasing power, the cost of labor and the amount of work
require to fit a new engine. I do not know your boat but in certain type
they had to use a shoe horn to installed a new engine.
On the other hand rebuilding the A4 may cost you much less money and
aggravation.
The saying that diesel will outlast a gas engine is questionable. We see
many old A4 around and working well.



"DSK" wrote in message
...
Thomas Wentworth wrote:
A friend has offered me his old Pearson Vanguard 33' sailboat.

You mean, for free?

... It is in good shape.
But, it needs a new engine. It has the original Atomic 4 gas.


I bet there's a lot of other stuff it "needs," too. But an
engine could well be the biggest single item.

What diesel engine would be the best replacement?

There's a drop-in diesel replacement for the Atomic 4, IIRC
it's called a Beta. Fits in exactly the same; but you also
need to put in a new fuel tank & piping.


... How much do the diesels
cost?

More than the boat.

... How much work is it the replace an old Atomic 4 in a 1968 year
sailboat? When replacing the engine, does the shaft, fuel tank etc also
get replaced?


Shaft & prop, no. Pretty much everything else, yes.


ck wrote:
Tom, have you considered keeping the Atomic 4? Even if it can't be
rebuilt,
it may make more sense to replace it with a working Atomic 4 than with a
diesel.


Depends on how bad you want to use the boat.

Safety is an issue that can and must be addressed in using gasoline, but
economically, a conversion to diesel will never make sense.

It makes good sense *if* you plan to use the boat for a long
enough time to amortize the diesel. Simply dropping in a
diesel will not raise the market value of the boat to cover
the cost of the new diesel engine, agreed. But then, that's
true of every kind of upgrade for the boat, especially
electronics... and people go hog-wild over all that stuff.



.... As evidence of
this, compare the estimates of conversion cost to the cost of boats
similar
to yours in size, age, and quality that already have diesels. You may
find
it cheaper to buy a used boat with a diesel engine than to convert
yours.

Possibly so, unless he is getting the Vanguard as a gift.


This will surely ignite some contrary opinions.


Was this one contrary enough for ya?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I've certainly seen quotes of $8-10K for engine replacements, and yet
my two closest cruising friends each did it for under $5K. One was
slightly used Perkins swap for under $4k, most of the labor done by
the owners. The other was a Yanmar 3GM-3YM where the engine was
about $4K and labor about $1K. Neither included shaft or tranny.

I have no doubt that if you give a boat to a fancy yard and tell them
to give it back with a new engine, it could cost $10K.

Denis Marier wrote:
Before doing anything It would be nice to tally the cost of refurbishing the
Atomic 4 Vs replacing it with a new 3 cylinder's diesel.
The big question is how much would your boat sells for on today's market.
The cost of installing a new diesel will not be recoupable when you sell
your boat.
By having a new diesel installed you will gain satisfaction and
dependability. Conversely rebuilding the Atomic 4 may well suit your sailing
needs.
Here the approximate cost of replacing the A4 with a 3 cylinder's diesel:
Diesel engine = $7000.00, shaft = $200.00, propeller $350.00, fuel tank
$200.00? plus re-bedding to suit the new engine , shaft and alignment many
more imponderables plus labor. Not to mention that you may have to replace
the strut.
I estimate that by the time you are finished you will have spent around
$7800.00 without the cost of labor. In some case $10000.00 is not
uncommon.
The later figure is very conservative. You can easily exceed that amount.
Depending on your purchasing power, the cost of labor and the amount of work
require to fit a new engine. I do not know your boat but in certain type
they had to use a shoe horn to installed a new engine.
On the other hand rebuilding the A4 may cost you much less money and
aggravation.
The saying that diesel will outlast a gas engine is questionable. We see
many old A4 around and working well.



"DSK" wrote in message
...

Thomas Wentworth wrote:

A friend has offered me his old Pearson Vanguard 33' sailboat.

You mean, for free?


... It is in good shape.
But, it needs a new engine. It has the original Atomic 4 gas.


I bet there's a lot of other stuff it "needs," too. But an
engine could well be the biggest single item.


What diesel engine would be the best replacement?

There's a drop-in diesel replacement for the Atomic 4, IIRC
it's called a Beta. Fits in exactly the same; but you also
need to put in a new fuel tank & piping.



... How much do the diesels
cost?

More than the boat.


... How much work is it the replace an old Atomic 4 in a 1968 year
sailboat? When replacing the engine, does the shaft, fuel tank etc also
get replaced?


Shaft & prop, no. Pretty much everything else, yes.


ck wrote:

Tom, have you considered keeping the Atomic 4? Even if it can't be

rebuilt,

it may make more sense to replace it with a working Atomic 4 than with a
diesel.


Depends on how bad you want to use the boat.


Safety is an issue that can and must be addressed in using gasoline, but
economically, a conversion to diesel will never make sense.

It makes good sense *if* you plan to use the boat for a long
enough time to amortize the diesel. Simply dropping in a
diesel will not raise the market value of the boat to cover
the cost of the new diesel engine, agreed. But then, that's
true of every kind of upgrade for the boat, especially
electronics... and people go hog-wild over all that stuff.




.... As evidence of
this, compare the estimates of conversion cost to the cost of boats

similar

to yours in size, age, and quality that already have diesels. You may

find

it cheaper to buy a used boat with a diesel engine than to convert

yours.

Possibly so, unless he is getting the Vanguard as a gift.



This will surely ignite some contrary opinions.


Was this one contrary enough for ya?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Lots of folks with old boats rip out the Atomics and replace them with
outboards. It gives back some stowage and is a cheap alternative if you
like to sail. Of course if you are a motor cruiser or you intend to
venture away from the coast the outboard option is less feasible. If
it's a free boat in good shape, I'd check out the various options. It
is a classic boat.

Yes, lots of people do this. Why not?

The boat is now 4 feet longer. That will cost you about $450 a year
more. EVERY YEAR. It may require a longer slip.

The boats designed as outboard models are quite different from the
inboard models. The outboard model that was designed so that the
outboard controls are accessable. They are not accessable on an
outboard bracket.

I watch people going out all the time who have no control of their
outboard. An accident waiting to happen.

Starting the engine on a bracket is a pain, the engine can get dunked in
a swell. A Vangard, with the overhang, just makes this aspect worse.

Is the transom strong enough for a bracket? You can't just bold a
bracket on any transom. Even though you see many done this way.

No, you can't "rip out the inboard and replace it with an outboard."
Even though there are many examples.

Thomas Wentworth wrote:

A friend has offered me his old Pearson Vanguard 33' sailboat. It is in
good shape.
But, it needs a new engine. It has the original Atomic 4 gas.

What diesel engine would be the best replacement? How much do the diesels
cost? How much work is it the replace an old Atomic 4 in a 1968 year
sailboat? When replacing the engine, does the shaft, fuel tank etc also get
replaced?

Any other info???


Thanks,,, Tom



Rebuild it.

Terry K

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:52:38 GMT, Jim wrote:

Is the transom strong enough for a bracket? You can't just bold a
bracket on any transom. Even though you see many done this way.

==========================

The transom on a Vanguard is darn near bullet proof, as is the rest of
the boat. If you are getting a really good deal (near free), and
everything else is in good condition, and you intend to keep it for
awhile, repowering might make sense. It will be far cheaper to put in
a rebuilt A4 but the diesel is a better long term choice. Repowering
with a new diesel, fuel tank replacement, new controls and guages will
probably run somewhere north of $12K. Rebuilt A4, might be less than
$3K.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:52:38 GMT, Jim wrote:


Is the transom strong enough for a bracket? You can't just bold a
bracket on any transom. Even though you see many done this way.


==========================

The transom on a Vanguard is darn near bullet proof, as is the rest of
the boat. If you are getting a really good deal (near free), and
everything else is in good condition, and you intend to keep it for
awhile, repowering might make sense. It will be far cheaper to put in
a rebuilt A4 but the diesel is a better long term choice. Repowering
with a new diesel, fuel tank replacement, new controls and guages will
probably run somewhere north of $12K. Rebuilt A4, might be less than
$3K.

If it's free, take without even worrying about the engine. Sail it and
tow it with the dinghy. Anything beats watching from the shore.

Gaz