"Capt. JG" wrote:

I'm also considering getting a catamaran but they're difficult
to find in California.

Huh? Why's that?

I can only think of a few reasons why cruising cats are not popular
around here.

1. Most people on the East Coast buy cruising cats for cruising to
the Caribbean. Californians don't have a lot of islands within
a short cruising distance so a shallow draft isn't important.
Local beaches are usually crowded with surfers and swimmers.

2. Most cruising cats are built in France and the shortest route
to California is through Panama Canal whereas most monohulls
can be transported here by trucks from the East Coast.

The closest Lagoon and Fountaine Pajot dealer is in Seattle !

wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote:

I'm also considering getting a catamaran but they're difficult
to find in California.

Huh? Why's that?

I can only think of a few reasons why cruising cats are not popular
around here.

1. Most people on the East Coast buy cruising cats for cruising to
the Caribbean. Californians don't have a lot of islands within
a short cruising distance so a shallow draft isn't important.
Local beaches are usually crowded with surfers and swimmers.

2. Most cruising cats are built in France and the shortest route
to California is through Panama Canal whereas most monohulls
can be transported here by trucks from the East Coast.

The closest Lagoon and Fountaine Pajot dealer is in Seattle !

Not sure where is "here," but in the SF bay you will find an increasing
number of multis on the bay. I'm not a huge fan of the Fountaine line, but
that's another thread.

You're in So. Cal. I take it? Seems like that would be a great place for
multihulls, and I know I've seen a bunch when sailing out of Long Beach and
Dana Point.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Why would you be unable to get yourself out of trouble if you're fairly
secure in a hull?

Picture a multihull in the middle of the ocean, capsized, and the crew
huddled inside the hull. At best they have turned on an EPIRB, and at
worst, they would be difficult to spot being inverted and hopefully found
before they succumb.

Then picture a monohull which has rolled over. At worst, they are dismasted
and have to try an rig some kind of temporary sail, or call for help. At
best,
they can recover enough to continue sailing.

I think I would go with the second option.



When a mono sinks however- dragged
down by that ballast that makes it self-righting- the only hope is a
liferaft.

The natural stability configuration is for the monohull to self-right, which
it should do fairly quickly. I would take my chances on this boat righting
itself.



Any boat that fills with water is going to sink. The idea about mono
hulls
is that
they will right themselves before the boat fills with water.

Not completely true, as most modern cats will not sink. Of course, never is
an absolute, so I suppose it's possible though remotely so.

It depends on what you think is the most basic safety feature-
nonsinkability or self righting.

I prefer the self righting. At least I have a chance to recover and
continue

sailing, in that case. If it sinks, then the life raft is your backup.

Many who sail cats don't carry a liferaft, because the cat or tri is the
liferaft.

For far offshore cruising, this is crazy.



Now I'm not claiming that a multi is the end all and be all of safety at
sea, but most of the time, the prime consideration is crew durability, not
boat durability. Crews get tired on a boat that's heeled all the time for
long distances. Tired crew make more mistakes.

If the crew is not up to it, they should stick with close shore sailing or
buy a houseboat.



Well, you're certainly not a licensed captain.

Nothing I have said so far would indicate that is the case. Are you
a licensed captain, and are you using that to prove your case?

I suppose you can call
yourself whatever you want, but the typical definition is licensed by the
USCG or other authority.

I'm not an licensed captain, but I have made several cruises in the Atlantic
and the Mediterranean in some pretty difficult conditions. Some of these
so called licensed captains never get much past the harbor entrance. Since
I do not take passengers on my boat, there is no need to have a license. I
am also a graduate engineer in Mechanics, so I know something about
stability.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote:
I can only think of a few reasons why cruising cats are not popular
around here.

1. Most people on the East Coast buy cruising cats for cruising to
the Caribbean. Californians don't have a lot of islands within
a short cruising distance so a shallow draft isn't important.
Local beaches are usually crowded with surfers and swimmers.

2. Most cruising cats are built in France and the shortest route
to California is through Panama Canal whereas most monohulls
can be transported here by trucks from the East Coast.

The closest Lagoon and Fountaine Pajot dealer is in Seattle !

Not sure where is "here," but in the SF bay you will find an
increasing number of multis on the bay. I'm not a huge fan of
the Fountaine line, but that's another thread.

You're in So. Cal. I take it? Seems like that would be a great
place for multihulls, and I know I've seen a bunch when sailing
out of Long Beach and Dana Point.

I'm in San Diego but when I do a search on yachtworld.com
for used multihulls over 35' in California I only get 11 results
and these also include a couple of trimarans. If I search for
both new and used I get 23 results but many of them haven't
even been built.

I don't see any Lagoon on this list and only see 1 Catana and
1 Fountaine Pajot (with another one en route).

Using Google Earth to look at a satellite photo of Kona Kai
marina with more than 500 slips I can only see 2 catamarans
and 1 trimaran.

Capt. JG wrote:

"Marc Onrust" wrote in message
. nl...
I would also if I could afford it... :-) Actually, in the bay, I like
the
heel of the mono. I'm just not sure I want to do that again for days on
end.



If I only could go back to "the bay" and SF once more. Been there a few
years
ago with my wife. What a truly great city!!

Where are you now?


The Netherlands

Ah, I've got some friends over there... near Laren.

Very nice area!
--
MarineYacht Yacht Charters
http://www.marineyacht.com

sherwindu wrote:




Why would you be unable to get yourself out of trouble if you're fairly
secure in a hull?


Picture a multihull in the middle of the ocean, capsized, and the crew
huddled inside the hull. At best they have turned on an EPIRB, and at
worst, they would be difficult to spot being inverted and hopefully found
before they succumb.

Its hard to picture because its happened so infrequently. There have
been several such inversions, but I don't recall ever hearing of one
where the occupants succumbed while waiting. There have been a few
cases of people living for extended periods waiting to be rescued.

There was one case of a man who died of diabetic shock, but the rest
of his crew was rescued, and several monohulls were lost without a
trace in the same storm.



Then picture a monohull which has rolled over. At worst, they are dismasted
and have to try an rig some kind of temporary sail, or call for help. At
best,
they can recover enough to continue sailing.

I think I would go with the second option.


I think you have a typo. At _best_ they are only dismasted and
suffered no other damage. At worst, they have structural damage
caused by the dismasting, or the loose mast whacking they hull. If
the hatch was not watertight, they probably took in a lot a water, so
the buoyancy is reduced, and its hard to find any leaks, and the pumps
may not be working. Even a small leak would doom the monohull; a 2
inch hole floods about 100 gals a minute! The crew will be demanding
to get into the liferaft, which is probably the most dangerous thing
of all.

And this is assuming that the boat doesn't stay inverted for a while,
not out of the question with some boats.




When a mono sinks however- dragged
down by that ballast that makes it self-righting- the only hope is a
liferaft.


The natural stability configuration is for the monohull to self-right, which
it should do fairly quickly. I would take my chances on this boat righting
itself.

The natural stability configuration is upright, on the bottom. Does
the phrase "lost without a trace" have a familiar ring to it?

wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote:

Not sure where is "here," but in the SF bay you will find an
increasing number of multis on the bay. I'm not a huge fan of
the Fountaine line, but that's another thread.

You're in So. Cal. I take it? Seems like that would be a great
place for multihulls, and I know I've seen a bunch when sailing
out of Long Beach and Dana Point.


I'm in San Diego but when I do a search on yachtworld.com
for used multihulls over 35' in California I only get 11 results
and these also include a couple of trimarans. If I search for
both new and used I get 23 results but many of them haven't
even been built.

I don't see any Lagoon on this list and only see 1 Catana and
1 Fountaine Pajot (with another one en route).

Using Google Earth to look at a satellite photo of Kona Kai
marina with more than 500 slips I can only see 2 catamarans
and 1 trimaran.

Nice rejoinder. The Google Earth check is very good.

Gaz

Gary wrote:
wrote:


Using Google Earth to look at a satellite photo of Kona Kai
marina with more than 500 slips I can only see 2 catamarans
and 1 trimaran.


Nice rejoinder. The Google Earth check is very good.

That's because the cats are all our sailing!

Actually a check of one marina might not be valid, because some
marinas simply don't have spaces for them. I had to move for next
season because of dredging, and I didn't even bother checking any of
the "first choice" marinas in the inner harbor. However, I got a nice
t-head at good place which is 10 minutes further driving from my
house, but 30 minutes closer to open water once we leave the dock. My
fallback was to move to a mooring, which would have been different,
but would have saved a big bundle.

Jeff wrote:
Gary wrote:
wrote:

Using Google Earth to look at a satellite photo of Kona Kai
marina with more than 500 slips I can only see 2 catamarans
and 1 trimaran.


Nice rejoinder. The Google Earth check is very good.

That's because the cats are all our sailing!

Actually a check of one marina might not be valid, because some
marinas simply don't have spaces for them.
...

And the yachtworld.com search results may not be valid because
most catamaran owners don't want to sell :-)

wrote:
Jeff wrote:

Gary wrote:

wrote:

Using Google Earth to look at a satellite photo of Kona Kai
marina with more than 500 slips I can only see 2 catamarans
and 1 trimaran.


Nice rejoinder. The Google Earth check is very good.


That's because the cats are all our sailing!

Actually a check of one marina might not be valid, because some
marinas simply don't have spaces for them.
...


And the yachtworld.com search results may not be valid because
most catamaran owners don't want to sell :-)
Especially after going to the expense of getting one to the West Coast