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Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
I'll preface this post with the full admission that I'm new to many aspects
of boating, having just recently purchased a '2000 Maxum 2400 SE. Having said that, here are my questions.... 1. Manual Jabsco head isn't working properly. The pump doesn't bring water in or out. Checked the seacock and the handle is vertical, indicating open (I think). 2. Macerator. My boat has one. Where is the waste pumped to? A broker said it goes into the waste tank but I want to be certain of this. Disposing it directly into the Columbia River is illegal (and disgusting). If it goes into the waste tank, then what is the purpose of it? Thanks! -Greg |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
1. Manual Jabsco head isn't working properly. The pump doesn't bring
water in or out. Checked the seacock and the handle is vertical, indicating open (I think). There are a couple of possibilities...the easiest one: there's a lever at the top of the pump...when it's pushed to the "wet" side, it allows the pump to bring in flush water...when it's in the "dry" mode, it doesn't, but still allows the pump to evacuate the bowl. If moving the lever to the 'wet' mode doesn't solve your problem, the next most likely scenario is a failed flapper valve in the pump. Or, if you feel any backpressure when you pump the toilet, a failed wet/dry cam in the pump...it's hung up in the "dry" mode. It's a VERY common problem in Jabsco toilets made in the 5-8 years. Unless it's as simple moving the lever to the "wet" mode, I'd replace the toilet, 'cuz Jabsco toilets have a VERY high failure rate. The service kits (which don't include the wet/dry cam, btw) cost almost as much as the whole toilet...which give you an idea of the quality of the toilet. I wouldn't put ANY money into it...replace it with one that's a bit better quality. 2. Macerator. My boat has one. Where is the waste pumped to? A broker said it goes into the waste tank but I want to be certain of this. Disposing it directly into the Columbia River is illegal (and disgusting). If it goes into the waste tank, then what is the purpose of it? You toilet does flush into the tank. If you check your plumbing, you'll see that the macerator is in the TANK discharge line...there's a tee in that line...one side goes to the deck pumpout fitting...the other side goes to the macerator and then to a thru-hull. It's used to dump the tank at sea. It's most definitely illegal to flush a toilet directly overboard OR dump a tank in the Columbia River...to dump a tank legally you must be in open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message . com... 1. Manual Jabsco head isn't working properly. The pump doesn't bring water in or out. Checked the seacock and the handle is vertical, indicating open (I think). There are a couple of possibilities...the easiest one: there's a lever at the top of the pump...when it's pushed to the "wet" side, it allows the pump to bring in flush water...when it's in the "dry" mode, it doesn't, but still allows the pump to evacuate the bowl. If moving the lever to the 'wet' mode doesn't solve your problem, the next most likely scenario is a failed flapper valve in the pump. Or, if you feel any backpressure when you pump the toilet, a failed wet/dry cam in the pump...it's hung up in the "dry" mode. It's a VERY common problem in Jabsco toilets made in the 5-8 years. I was hoping you'd reply, Peggy. Read about you first in Norwester, then within this forum. Wet mode doesn't solve it. I suspect it's a failed wet/dry cam. The pumping action is reminiscent of a air pump with a broken seal. Nothing much. Unless it's as simple moving the lever to the "wet" mode, I'd replace the toilet, 'cuz Jabsco toilets have a VERY high failure rate. The service kits (which don't include the wet/dry cam, btw) cost almost as much as the whole toilet...which give you an idea of the quality of the toilet. I wouldn't put ANY money into it...replace it with one that's a bit better quality. And your suggestion as to a better one? Our previous head was a portapotty which disposed into a holding tank. Quite easy. Should we get one of those? Any specific product/price? In the meantime, I suppose we can just pour water into it, when we have to....right? 2. Macerator. My boat has one. Where is the waste pumped to? A broker said it goes into the waste tank but I want to be certain of this. Disposing it directly into the Columbia River is illegal (and disgusting). If it goes into the waste tank, then what is the purpose of it? You toilet does flush into the tank. If you check your plumbing, you'll see that the macerator is in the TANK discharge line...there's a tee in that line...one side goes to the deck pumpout fitting...the other side goes to the macerator and then to a thru-hull. It's used to dump the tank at sea. It's most definitely illegal to flush a toilet directly overboard OR dump a tank in the Columbia River...to dump a tank legally you must be in open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline. Ok, since flushing into the pond is illegal, is there any reason to turn it on? -Greg |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
Dene wrote:
Wet mode doesn't solve it. I suspect it's a failed wet/dry cam. The pumping action is reminiscent of a air pump with a broken seal. Nothing much. NO backpressure when you pump? Then it has to be one of two things: failed flapper valve or a hairline crack in the pump housing. Or MAYBE a third... is there a vented loop in the head intake? If the toilet is at or below waterline there should be...if it's in the wrong place--which happens a LOT--it can prevent the pump from priming. Intake vented loops belong between the pump and bowl...to replace the short piece of hose the toilet mfr uses to connect 'em. But a lot of people don't realize (don't read the instructions, actually) that's where it goes...and so put it in the head intake line between the thru-hull and the pump. And your suggestion as to a better (quality toilet)? Our previous head was a portapotty which disposed into a holding tank. Quite easy. Should we get one of those? Any specific product/price? What size is the boat? If 25' or less, a 5-6 gal "MSD" model portapotty ("MSD" means it's designed to be permanently installed and plumbed to pumpout and dumping, either overboard or into a larger tank) would prob'ly be your best option. Cost is under $200 for the potty and all the parts...no moving parts to maintain...and because they use so little flush water, they hold about as many flushes as 15-18 gal tank connected to your Jabsco or any other manual toilet. And you don't have to give up valuable storage space to a tank unless you have to have a second one. The SeaLand 965MSD is top of the line...Thetford makes at least one model too. If you opt to keep a manual toilet, the best "bang for the buck" by far is the Raritan PH II...about $250, rated the best manual toilet under $500 for several decades. Or if space is tight, the PHC, which is the same pump, but on a compact base...about $25-30 less than the PH II. In the meantime, I suppose we can just pour water into it, when we have to....right? That'll work, but it's not the best thing for a manual toilet pump...'cuz water poured into the bowl only goes through the bottom 1/3, 1/4 of the pump...the rubber parts in the top half never get wet, so they dry out and fail faster. Otoh, it's a Jabsco...so why not? Ok, since flushing into the pond is illegal, is there any reason to turn it on? Nope...nor any reason to keep it on the boat unless you opt for a self-contained system and a second tank, and need it to transfer. If you're not gonna use it, I'd pull it out and sell it, 'cuz lack of use for a several years will destroy it. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
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Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
"elper" wrote in message ... Hello, One of the aspects of boating is getting your hands dirty or paying someone else to! ;o) If the head is mounted above the waterline (thus without a loop) you can check the seacock is allowing water in by disconnecting the feed hose at the head. If there is no water (or a loop) the test/fix is to backflush the hose with utility water or compressed air, to see if it is blocked or free. The act of pouring a bucket of water into the bowl and pumping it out primes the intake pump as well as proving the outlet is open... If the level just drops slowly without a significant increase in resistance whilst pumping, the likely cause is one of the circlips (spring washers) holding the plunger on the shaft has failed (a frequent fault). No level drop with a great increase of resistance indicates the outlet is blocked, either with something you really don't want to know about or a closed outlet valve (on tank?) or worse still, a full tank! Poured water into it with the valve near the toilet set to the left (right is to flush it). Water slowly drained in that position. Is that normal? Flushing it was fine. Whew! I think the problem has to do with unit being above the waterline. The previous owner closed the seacock and consequently, it will not prime unless I install a loop. I may just dump the Jabsco and go with the Raritan. I can get one for $225 locally. Until then, I'll just pour water into it as needed. Thanks for your advice. -Greg |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
Dene wrote:
Poured water into it with the valve near the toilet set to the left (right is to flush it). Water slowly drained in that position. Is that normal? Yep...marine toilets aren't designed to hold water in the bowl...so unless the discharge line goes uphill, any water in the bowl will drain. I think the problem has to do with unit being above the waterline. Nope...above or below the waterline has nothing to do with whether a toilet can prime or not. The previous owner closed the seacock and consequently, it will not prime unless I install a loop. Nope...the problem is in the PUMP. A loop has nothing to do with whether the toilet can prime or not. It may pump whatever water is left in the line between the pump and the top of the loop, but if it can't actually prime and continue to pull in water, it'll "lose prime" as soon as that water is gone. The PO was right to close the seacock. ALL seacocks should always be left closed when no one is aboard. Open seacocks are the leading cause of boats sinking in their slips. Closing it has nothing to do with whether the pump can reprime or not. I may just dump the Jabsco and go with the Raritan. I can get one for $225 locally. Until then, I'll just pour water into it as needed. Now THAT's a plan! :) Meanwhile, at the risk of being perceived as trying to sell you something, if you'd like to learn what causes most "headaches" and how to cure--or better yet, prevent--'em, you might want to check out the link in my signature. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message t... Dene wrote: Poured water into it with the valve near the toilet set to the left (right is to flush it). Water slowly drained in that position. Is that normal? Yep...marine toilets aren't designed to hold water in the bowl...so unless the discharge line goes uphill, any water in the bowl will drain. I think the problem has to do with unit being above the waterline. Nope...above or below the waterline has nothing to do with whether a toilet can prime or not. The previous owner closed the seacock and consequently, it will not prime unless I install a loop. Nope...the problem is in the PUMP. I think you're right. Spoke to an expert who specializes in marine plumbing and electrical systems and he agrees. A loop has nothing to do with whether the toilet can prime or not. It may pump whatever water is left in the line between the pump and the top of the loop, but if it can't actually prime and continue to pull in water, it'll "lose prime" as soon as that water is gone. The PO was right to close the seacock. ALL seacocks should always be left closed when no one is aboard. Open seacocks are the leading cause of boats sinking in their slips. Closing it has nothing to do with whether the pump can reprime or not. Thanks! I'll add closing the seacock to my "leaving ship" list. I may just dump the Jabsco and go with the Raritan. I can get one for $225 locally. Until then, I'll just pour water into it as needed. Now THAT's a plan! :) Well....my friend suggested that I price out a Jabsco rebuild kit. He's had good luck with that procedure. I'm going to price out both options and think about it. If a rebuild could last two to three years, then it may be more cost effective. Meanwhile, at the risk of being perceived as trying to sell you something, if you'd like to learn what causes most "headaches" and how to cure--or better yet, prevent--'em, you might want to check out the link in my signature. I have. Googled you days ago and read a lot of what you've said, including when you were accused of spamming. Glad you ignored that crap (no pun intended). ; -Greg -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
Dene wrote:
Well....my friend suggested that I price out a Jabsco rebuild kit. He's had good luck with that procedure. I'm going to price out both options and think about it. If a rebuild could last two to three years, then it may be more cost effective. It won't be...odds are about 100-1 that something that isn't in the kit will fail or break within a year. 10-15 years ago, Jabsco build a decent quality toilet for the money...many that age are still in service and working ok. But those made in the last 5-7 years are so flimsy that's rare for one to last 2 years without a failure....they've become "disposable" toilets...so disposable that, because the rebuild kit costs almost as much as a new pump, I know people who don't bother to rebuild, they just replace the pump every year as "preventive maintenance." That makes NO sense to me..'cuz in 5 years, they've spent close to $500 to keep a $100 toilet working...when for about half that much, they could have a trouble-free reliable toilet that'll last 20-25 years if you just keep it well lubricated and rebuild it every 5-6 years. If $225 is a bit more than you want to spend, go with a Groco HF. It's not as durable as a PH II, but you should get at least 5-7 trouble-free years from it. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message . com... Dene wrote: Well....my friend suggested that I price out a Jabsco rebuild kit. He's had good luck with that procedure. I'm going to price out both options and think about it. If a rebuild could last two to three years, then it may be more cost effective. It won't be...odds are about 100-1 that something that isn't in the kit will fail or break within a year. 10-15 years ago, Jabsco build a decent quality toilet for the money...many that age are still in service and working ok. But those made in the last 5-7 years are so flimsy that's rare for one to last 2 years without a failure....they've become "disposable" toilets...so disposable that, because the rebuild kit costs almost as much as a new pump, I know people who don't bother to rebuild, they just replace the pump every year as "preventive maintenance." That makes NO sense to me..'cuz in 5 years, they've spent close to $500 to keep a $100 toilet working...when for about half that much, they could have a trouble-free reliable toilet that'll last 20-25 years if you just keep it well lubricated and rebuild it every 5-6 years. If $225 is a bit more than you want to spend, go with a Groco HF. It's not as durable as a PH II, but you should get at least 5-7 trouble-free years from it. Thanks Peggy. I ran your advice across my better half and she enthusiastically concurs.....better to get a quality head. We'll have it done by March, bundling the labor with some other stuff that needs to be done. Until then, we'll pour water down it instead of money. Just bought your book on Amazon. $16.50 including S&H. One question about manuel pump toilets compared to the porta potty we had on our prior boat. We never had an odor problem. The solution was pumped in with the water prior to flushing and out into the holding tanks. Whereas, manual flush toilet draws in river water and then flushes it. Isn't that a recipe for odor? We've noticed that this head smells far worse than the porta-potty ever did. Nothing unbearable....just noticeable. -Greg |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
Dene wrote:
Just bought your book on Amazon. $16.50 including S&H. Hope you find it useful! One question about manuel pump toilets compared to the porta potty we had on our prior boat. We never had an odor problem. The solution was pumped in with the water prior to flushing and out into the holding tanks. Whereas, manual flush toilet draws in river water and then flushes it. Isn't that a recipe for odor? We've noticed that this head smells far worse than the porta-potty ever did. Nothing unbearable....just noticeable. Fresh water usually doesn't stink...but it can if the water isn't very clean...the organic matter and bacteria in it stagnate in the head intake line and pump. If you get into shallow water you can also pull in weeds and bits of organic debris that get caught in the pump and channel in the rim of bowl, die and decay...and stink. If you have odor from your toilet even though the seacock is closed and the only water going into it is fresh water from the sink, you prob'ly have some stagnant river water trapped in it, or some weeds. If the whole boat kinda smells, permeated sanitation hoses are the most likely culprit...new hoses is the only cure for that. Or, your bilge and sumps just may be in need of a SERIOUS cleaning instead of just dumping in more bilge cleaner...wet dirty bilges and sumps can smell just like a sewer. I've forgotten (if you ever mentioned it)...what IS your new boat...size, make, age? -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message et... Dene wrote: Just bought your book on Amazon. $16.50 including S&H. Hope you find it useful! One question about manuel pump toilets compared to the porta potty we had on our prior boat. We never had an odor problem. The solution was pumped in with the water prior to flushing and out into the holding tanks. Whereas, manual flush toilet draws in river water and then flushes it. Isn't that a recipe for odor? We've noticed that this head smells far worse than the porta-potty ever did. Nothing unbearable....just noticeable. Fresh water usually doesn't stink...but it can if the water isn't very clean...the organic matter and bacteria in it stagnate in the head intake line and pump. If you get into shallow water you can also pull in weeds and bits of organic debris that get caught in the pump and channel in the rim of bowl, die and decay...and stink. If you have odor from your toilet even though the seacock is closed and the only water going into it is fresh water from the sink, you prob'ly have some stagnant river water trapped in it, or some weeds. If the whole boat kinda smells, permeated sanitation hoses are the most likely culprit...new hoses is the only cure for that. Or, your bilge and sumps just may be in need of a SERIOUS cleaning instead of just dumping in more bilge cleaner...wet dirty bilges and sumps can smell just like a sewer. I've never put bilge cleaner in. I'll try that. I've forgotten (if you ever mentioned it)...what IS your new boat...size, make, age? It's a 2000 Maxum 2400 SE, roughly 25 feet long. It's been in the water since 2002, stored in a boathouse. The hoses you speak of. Are you referring to the ones in the head? If so, then we'll replace them when the Raritan is installed. -Greg |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
Dene wrote:
I've never put bilge cleaner in. I'll try that. Unless you actually clean the bilge and flush all the dirty water out, it won't help much I've forgotten (if you ever mentioned it)...what IS your new boat...size, make, age? It's a 2000 Maxum 2400 SE, roughly 25 feet long. It's been in the water since 2002, stored in a boathouse. If the bilge is wet, after sitting for 3 years, it could very well be the source of your odor. The hoses you speak of. Are you referring to the ones in the head? Not just the ones in the head...the hose from the head to the tank and from the tank to the pumpout fitting, and possibly the vent line too. If the head intake hose is clear plastic, it should be replaced with a hose that's rated for below-waterline connection whether it stinks or not. To find out if your hoses have permeated, wet a rag (use a clean one for each separate section of hose) in HOT water...wring it out, wrap it around the lowest part of the hose. When the rag is cool, remove it and smell it. If you can't smell anything on the rag, that hose is fine...but if it stinks at all, replace the hose. If so, then we'll replace them when the Raritan is installed. That would be the time to do it. Btw...you'll find some tips in my book that should make that job a little easier. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
Larry wrote:
I think this is a job for the wife, personally....(c; You would... Pfat chance.... Pfat chance indeed! In case you aren't aware of it, more wives than husbands take responsibility for solving odor and "potty" problems. That's prob'ly because women are more able to take such things in stride...'cuz it's mothers, not fathers, who change most of the diapers. It's women--not men--who've have been up to our elbows in this stuff ever since Eve slapped the first grape leaf on Cain's bottom while Adam was out doing some kind of "guy" thing. So Larry, you are indeed a misogynist, but I luv ya anyway. :) -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
If $225 is a bit more than you want to spend, go with a Groco HF. It's
not as durable as a PH II, but you should get at least 5-7 trouble-free years from it. . Peggy, a boat I bought has a Raritan Compact head. I was about to buy a service kit for it. But then wondered, do you know if I could swap in the pump assembly from the successor, the Compact II? Also, are you saying the PHII is not well made any more? If I rep[laced, that was my leading contender. Thanks for any info. Many fond memories from the old Compuserve Sailing Forum. |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message et... Larry wrote: I think this is a job for the wife, personally....(c; You would... Pfat chance.... Pfat chance indeed! In case you aren't aware of it, more wives than husbands take responsibility for solving odor and "potty" problems. That's prob'ly because women are more able to take such things in stride...'cuz it's mothers, not fathers, who change most of the diapers. It's women--not men--who've have been up to our elbows in this stuff ever since Eve slapped the first grape leaf on Cain's bottom while Adam was out doing some kind of "guy" thing. Face it....you're just jealous of our outdoor plumbing. : -Greg |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
8906 wrote:
If $225 is a bit more than you want to spend, go with a Groco HF. It's not as durable as a PH II, but you should get at least 5-7 trouble-free years from it. . Peggy, a boat I bought has a Raritan Compact head. I was about to buy a service kit for it. But then wondered, do you know if I could swap in the pump assembly from the successor, the Compact II? Yep, you can...but it'll prob'ly cost you about the same as the complete CPII if you shop hard. Also, are you saying the PHII is not well made any more? Nooo..whatever gave you THAT idea? If you re-read what what you quoted above, you'll see that I said the Groco is not as durable as the PH II, but still a much better choice than a Jabsco for about the same money. If I rep[laced, that was my leading contender. And it should still be! Thanks for any info. Many fond memories from the old Compuserve Sailing Forum. The OLYC was best online forum EVER! -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message om... 8906 wrote: If $225 is a bit more than you want to spend, go with a Groco HF. It's not as durable as a PH II, but you should get at least 5-7 trouble-free years from it. . Peggy, a boat I bought has a Raritan Compact head. I was about to buy a service kit for it. But then wondered, do you know if I could swap in the pump assembly from the successor, the Compact II? Yep, you can...but it'll prob'ly cost you about the same as the complete CPII if you shop hard. Also, are you saying the PHII is not well made any more? Nooo..whatever gave you THAT idea? If you re-read what what you quoted above, you'll see that I said the Groco is not as durable as the PH II, but still a much better choice than a Jabsco for about the same money. Went on an overnight last night. This morning, she-who- must-be-obeyed decreed that we're getting a new head, pronto. (She bore 4 children....her bladder requires many flushes). We're now the proud owner of a Raritan, soon to be installed this weekend. We're also replacing the hoses. The dealer, Sexton Chanderly, concurred with your assessment of the Jabsco, describing it as entry level at best, worthless to rebuild. Thanks Peggy! -Greg |
Questions re. Jabsco Head and Macerator
Nooo..whatever gave you THAT idea? If you re-read what what you quoted
You are right. Somehow, my tired eyes misread that. Glad to have that clarified. Turns out there is a full set of spares for this Compact. The previous owner of this boat left it well equipped. So for now I shall use of the replacement parts. But the next maintenance cycle shall involve replacement with a PHII. Thanks for any info. Many fond memories from the old Compuserve Sailing Forum. The OLYC was best online forum EVER! sigh... miss it all the time. Lots of things I miss about those pre-internet days of online fora. But sure glad we aren't paying by the hour any more. ;) |
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