I'll preface this post with the full admission that I'm new to many aspects
of boating, having just recently purchased a '2000 Maxum 2400 SE.

Having said that, here are my questions....

1. Manual Jabsco head isn't working properly. The pump doesn't bring water
in or out. Checked the seacock and the handle is vertical, indicating open
(I think).

2. Macerator. My boat has one. Where is the waste pumped to? A broker said
it goes into the waste tank but I want to be certain of this. Disposing it
directly into the Columbia River is illegal (and disgusting). If it goes
into the waste tank, then what is the purpose of it?

Thanks!

-Greg

1. Manual Jabsco head isn't working properly. The pump doesn't bring
water in or out. Checked the seacock and the handle is vertical,
indicating open (I think).

There are a couple of possibilities...the easiest one: there's a lever
at the top of the pump...when it's pushed to the "wet" side, it allows
the pump to bring in flush water...when it's in the "dry" mode, it
doesn't, but still allows the pump to evacuate the bowl.

If moving the lever to the 'wet' mode doesn't solve your problem, the
next most likely scenario is a failed flapper valve in the pump. Or, if
you feel any backpressure when you pump the toilet, a failed wet/dry cam
in the pump...it's hung up in the "dry" mode. It's a VERY common problem
in Jabsco toilets made in the 5-8 years.

Unless it's as simple moving the lever to the "wet" mode, I'd replace
the toilet, 'cuz Jabsco toilets have a VERY high failure rate. The
service kits (which don't include the wet/dry cam, btw) cost almost as
much as the whole toilet...which give you an idea of the quality of the
toilet. I wouldn't put ANY money into it...replace it with one that's a
bit better quality.

2. Macerator. My boat has one. Where is the waste pumped to? A broker
said it goes into the waste tank but I want to be certain of this.
Disposing it directly into the Columbia River is illegal (and
disgusting). If it goes into the waste tank, then what is the purpose
of it?

You toilet does flush into the tank. If you check your plumbing, you'll
see that the macerator is in the TANK discharge line...there's a tee in
that line...one side goes to the deck pumpout fitting...the other side
goes to the macerator and then to a thru-hull. It's used to dump the
tank at sea. It's most definitely illegal to flush a toilet directly
overboard OR dump a tank in the Columbia River...to dump a tank legally
you must be in open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the
whole US coastline.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
. com...
1. Manual Jabsco head isn't working properly. The pump doesn't bring
water in or out. Checked the seacock and the handle is vertical,
indicating open (I think).

There are a couple of possibilities...the easiest one: there's a lever
at the top of the pump...when it's pushed to the "wet" side, it allows
the pump to bring in flush water...when it's in the "dry" mode, it
doesn't, but still allows the pump to evacuate the bowl.

If moving the lever to the 'wet' mode doesn't solve your problem, the
next most likely scenario is a failed flapper valve in the pump. Or, if
you feel any backpressure when you pump the toilet, a failed wet/dry cam
in the pump...it's hung up in the "dry" mode. It's a VERY common problem
in Jabsco toilets made in the 5-8 years.

I was hoping you'd reply, Peggy. Read about you first in Norwester, then
within this forum.

Wet mode doesn't solve it. I suspect it's a failed wet/dry cam. The
pumping action is reminiscent of a air pump with a broken seal.
Nothing much.

Unless it's as simple moving the lever to the "wet" mode, I'd replace
the toilet, 'cuz Jabsco toilets have a VERY high failure rate. The
service kits (which don't include the wet/dry cam, btw) cost almost as
much as the whole toilet...which give you an idea of the quality of the
toilet. I wouldn't put ANY money into it...replace it with one that's a
bit better quality.

And your suggestion as to a better one? Our previous head was a portapotty
which disposed into a holding tank. Quite easy.
Should we get one of those? Any specific product/price?

In the meantime, I suppose we can just pour water into it, when we have
to....right?

2. Macerator. My boat has one. Where is the waste pumped to? A broker
said it goes into the waste tank but I want to be certain of this.
Disposing it directly into the Columbia River is illegal (and
disgusting). If it goes into the waste tank, then what is the purpose
of it?

You toilet does flush into the tank. If you check your plumbing, you'll
see that the macerator is in the TANK discharge line...there's a tee in
that line...one side goes to the deck pumpout fitting...the other side
goes to the macerator and then to a thru-hull. It's used to dump the
tank at sea. It's most definitely illegal to flush a toilet directly
overboard OR dump a tank in the Columbia River...to dump a tank legally
you must be in open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the
whole US coastline.

Ok, since flushing into the pond is illegal, is there any reason to turn it
on?

-Greg

Dene wrote:

Wet mode doesn't solve it. I suspect it's a failed wet/dry cam. The
pumping action is reminiscent of a air pump with a broken seal.
Nothing much.

NO backpressure when you pump? Then it has to be one of two things:
failed flapper valve or a hairline crack in the pump housing.

Or MAYBE a third... is there a vented loop in the head intake? If the
toilet is at or below waterline there should be...if it's in the wrong
place--which happens a LOT--it can prevent the pump from priming. Intake
vented loops belong between the pump and bowl...to replace the short
piece of hose the toilet mfr uses to connect 'em. But a lot of people
don't realize (don't read the instructions, actually) that's where it
goes...and so put it in the head intake line between the thru-hull and
the pump.

And your suggestion as to a better (quality toilet)? Our previous
head was a portapotty which disposed into a holding tank. Quite
easy. Should we get one of those? Any specific product/price?

What size is the boat? If 25' or less, a 5-6 gal "MSD" model portapotty
("MSD" means it's designed to be permanently installed and plumbed to
pumpout and dumping, either overboard or into a larger tank) would
prob'ly be your best option. Cost is under $200 for the potty and all
the parts...no moving parts to maintain...and because they use so little
flush water, they hold about as many flushes as 15-18 gal tank connected
to your Jabsco or any other manual toilet. And you don't have to give up
valuable storage space to a tank unless you have to have a second one.
The SeaLand 965MSD is top of the line...Thetford makes at least one
model too.

If you opt to keep a manual toilet, the best "bang for the buck" by far
is the Raritan PH II...about $250, rated the best manual toilet under
$500 for several decades. Or if space is tight, the PHC, which is the
same pump, but on a compact base...about $25-30 less than the PH II.

In the meantime, I suppose we can just pour water into it, when we
have to....right?

That'll work, but it's not the best thing for a manual toilet
pump...'cuz water poured into the bowl only goes through the bottom 1/3,
1/4 of the pump...the rubber parts in the top half never get wet, so
they dry out and fail faster. Otoh, it's a Jabsco...so why not?


Ok, since flushing into the pond is illegal, is there any reason to
turn it on?

Nope...nor any reason to keep it on the boat unless you opt for a
self-contained system and a second tank, and need it to transfer. If
you're not gonna use it, I'd pull it out and sell it, 'cuz lack of use
for a several years will destroy it.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

"Dene" a écrit dans le
message de news:
...
I'll preface this post with the full
admission that I'm new to many
aspects
of boating, having just recently
purchased a '2000 Maxum 2400 SE.

Having said that, here are my
questions....

1. Manual Jabsco head isn't working
properly. The pump doesn't bring
water
in or out. Checked the seacock and
the handle is vertical, indicating
open
(I think).
snip
Hello,
One of the aspects of boating is
getting your hands dirty or paying
someone else to! ;o)
If the head is mounted above the
waterline (thus without a loop) you can
check
the seacock is allowing water in by
disconnecting the feed hose at the
head.
If there is no water (or a loop) the
test/fix is to backflush the hose with
utility water
or compressed air, to see if it is
blocked or free.
The act of pouring a bucket of water
into the bowl and pumping it out primes
the intake pump as well as proving the
outlet is open... If the level just
drops
slowly without a significant increase
in resistance whilst pumping, the
likely
cause is one of the circlips (spring
washers) holding the plunger on the
shaft has failed (a frequent fault).
No level drop with a great increase of
resistance indicates the outlet is
blocked, either
with something you really don't want to
know about or a closed outlet valve (on
tank?)
or worse still, a full tank!
If the level drops slowly with some
resistance, the likely cause is that
the head's outlet
valve, mounted where the outlet hose is
connected, has failed, and is no longer
sealing
properly during the up-stroke of the
pump.
Like most pumps, these toilets are very
reliable if one takes care of them,
which includes using them frequently,
but are destroyed almost instantly
by being used by someone who hasn't had
to repair them!

Hope this fault finding advice is of
use to you - and good luck!
Pierre.

"elper" wrote in message
...

Hello,
One of the aspects of boating is
getting your hands dirty or paying
someone else to! ;o)
If the head is mounted above the
waterline (thus without a loop) you can
check
the seacock is allowing water in by
disconnecting the feed hose at the
head.
If there is no water (or a loop) the
test/fix is to backflush the hose with
utility water
or compressed air, to see if it is
blocked or free.
The act of pouring a bucket of water
into the bowl and pumping it out primes
the intake pump as well as proving the
outlet is open... If the level just
drops
slowly without a significant increase
in resistance whilst pumping, the
likely
cause is one of the circlips (spring
washers) holding the plunger on the
shaft has failed (a frequent fault).
No level drop with a great increase of
resistance indicates the outlet is
blocked, either
with something you really don't want to
know about or a closed outlet valve (on
tank?)
or worse still, a full tank!

Poured water into it with the valve near the toilet set to the left (right
is to flush it). Water slowly drained in that position. Is that normal?
Flushing it was fine. Whew!

I think the problem has to do with unit being above the waterline. The
previous owner closed the seacock and consequently, it will not prime unless
I install a loop. I may just dump the Jabsco and go with the Raritan. I
can get one for $225 locally. Until then, I'll just pour water into it as
needed.

Thanks for your advice.

-Greg

Dene wrote:

Poured water into it with the valve near the toilet set to the left (right
is to flush it). Water slowly drained in that position. Is that normal?

Yep...marine toilets aren't designed to hold water in the bowl...so
unless the discharge line goes uphill, any water in the bowl will drain.

I think the problem has to do with unit being above the waterline.

Nope...above or below the waterline has nothing to do with whether a
toilet can prime or not.

The
previous owner closed the seacock and consequently, it will not prime unless
I install a loop.

Nope...the problem is in the PUMP.

A loop has nothing to do with whether the toilet can prime or not. It
may pump whatever water is left in the line between the pump and the top
of the loop, but if it can't actually prime and continue to pull in
water, it'll "lose prime" as soon as that water is gone.

The PO was right to close the seacock. ALL seacocks should always be
left closed when no one is aboard. Open seacocks are the leading cause
of boats sinking in their slips. Closing it has nothing to do with
whether the pump can reprime or not.


I may just dump the Jabsco and go with the Raritan. I
can get one for $225 locally. Until then, I'll just pour water into it as
needed.

Now THAT's a plan!

Meanwhile, at the risk of being perceived as trying to sell you
something, if you'd like to learn what causes most "headaches" and how
to cure--or better yet, prevent--'em, you might want to check out the
link in my signature.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
news
Dene wrote:

Poured water into it with the valve near the toilet set to the left
(right
is to flush it). Water slowly drained in that position. Is that
normal?

Yep...marine toilets aren't designed to hold water in the bowl...so
unless the discharge line goes uphill, any water in the bowl will drain.

I think the problem has to do with unit being above the waterline.

Nope...above or below the waterline has nothing to do with whether a
toilet can prime or not.

The
previous owner closed the seacock and consequently, it will not prime
unless
I install a loop.

Nope...the problem is in the PUMP.

I think you're right. Spoke to an expert who specializes in marine plumbing
and electrical systems and he agrees.

A loop has nothing to do with whether the toilet can prime or not. It
may pump whatever water is left in the line between the pump and the top
of the loop, but if it can't actually prime and continue to pull in
water, it'll "lose prime" as soon as that water is gone.

The PO was right to close the seacock. ALL seacocks should always be
left closed when no one is aboard. Open seacocks are the leading cause
of boats sinking in their slips. Closing it has nothing to do with
whether the pump can reprime or not.

Thanks! I'll add closing the seacock to my "leaving ship" list.

I may just dump the Jabsco and go with the Raritan. I
can get one for $225 locally. Until then, I'll just pour water into it
as
needed.

Now THAT's a plan!

Well....my friend suggested that I price out a Jabsco rebuild kit. He's had
good luck with that procedure. I'm going to price out both options and
think about it. If a rebuild could last two to three years, then it may be
more cost effective.

Meanwhile, at the risk of being perceived as trying to sell you
something, if you'd like to learn what causes most "headaches" and how
to cure--or better yet, prevent--'em, you might want to check out the
link in my signature.

I have. Googled you days ago and read a lot of what you've said, including
when you were accused of spamming. Glad you ignored that crap (no pun
intended). ;

-Greg


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Dene wrote:
Well....my friend suggested that I price out a Jabsco rebuild kit.
He's had good luck with that procedure. I'm going to price out both
options and think about it. If a rebuild could last two to three
years, then it may be more cost effective.

It won't be...odds are about 100-1 that something that isn't in the kit
will fail or break within a year. 10-15 years ago, Jabsco build a decent
quality toilet for the money...many that age are still in service and
working ok. But those made in the last 5-7 years are so flimsy that's
rare for one to last 2 years without a failure....they've become
"disposable" toilets...so disposable that, because the rebuild kit costs
almost as much as a new pump, I know people who don't bother to rebuild,
they just replace the pump every year as "preventive maintenance." That
makes NO sense to me..'cuz in 5 years, they've spent close to $500 to
keep a $100 toilet working...when for about half that much, they could
have a trouble-free reliable toilet that'll last 20-25 years if you just
keep it well lubricated and rebuild it every 5-6 years.

If $225 is a bit more than you want to spend, go with a Groco HF. It's
not as durable as a PH II, but you should get at least 5-7 trouble-free
years from it.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304