Thought I was about to die in a brand new boat 2 months ago, I really
believe this is an accident just waiting to happen again and again. I
called Tracker and the Dealer but got mostly silence and excuses

(maybe i'm just extraordinarily stupid and overly trusting of authority
expertise too, it's all quite possible ....)

3 months ago we bought a new Tracker Tahoe Q4-L and got a general
walk around when we went to pick it up. This Q4-L has an inboard. The
salesman points to the brass drain plug which was inserted and screwed
in tight,mentioning the obvious caution to be certain its always
screwed back in tight.

He points to a second plug screwed in place directly to the left of the
drain plug and seems really proud of what I thought was a pretty
standard feature on inboards ..... unscrew that plug he says, and a
hose pulls out from that hole and you can drain your motoroil.

He then points to a 3rd loosely hanging drainplug attached to a thin
wire and says .... " ummm .. yea, a spare there ... and we continue the
walkaround.

A week later I'm in San Pablo Bay in Northern Ca. on the maiden run and
after about 30 minutes I really feel heavy ... turned on the bilge and
pumped water for about 10 minutes, so I thought I'd better trailer up
and check what was up ..... Drainplug was tight and its twin plug for
the engine oil was in place as well on my visual check

Went home and called the dealer and explained the problem. .... I
guesstimated that I had pumped a scary amount of water , as 8 to 10
minutes from a 1in. diameter bilge hose seemed to me to be a lot of
water that shouldn't be there.

He apologized profusely stating that all new boats are prepped , engine
tested in a tapering outdoor pool type area, and lastly hosed down

This was obviously water that entered then as workers don't always
insert the drainplug for this motor testing startup in this tapered
'pond ' (only the prop and drainplug area is in the water, not the boat
at that time)

He offered to forward the call to a 'tekky' for further discussion.

The tekky thinks a verbal walkthru is in order especially because none
of the supplied manuals even pictures the rear drainplug area.

I end the call with a second walkaround concerning the bilge, the
drainplug, the oil drain
plug and the 'spare' on the wire .... (his term) and the second
assurance that this is the prep water and washdown only.

What occurs next is all my own stupidity, to not just tie up dockside
and be sure there was no more incoming water was unthinkable
foolishness on my part, but after 2 identical runthroughs about the
drainplugs and the statements from both men that the prep crew often
leaves washdown water in the bilge, I felt assured .

I motor out about 2000 yards or so , and anchor to begin enjoying my
first real on the water "look -see" at everything on my new luxury
investment plus playing and setting up the added electronic options I
had installed . Im retired and I must admit its been years since my last
2 boats.

Trailering up, the drive to the launch, launching alone , and the
general excitement of the second (but the more official) 'maiden' launch
had drained me. I sipped coffee, stretched out at one of the rear seats
and fell asleep.

I think it was a gull but whatever the cause I snapped straight up and
alert .... my feet rested in water, and 3 inches of water surrounded the
engine cowl ,covering the carpet and running into the ski locker floor
lid. the bow looked like we were ready for main booster launch to the
moon.

I'd like to pretend I was calm and professional . I was petrified numb.
Amazing how many things go through your mind ... " a real thriller of a
movie situation here but Im really here not on the sofa munching popcorn
"

Oh God I cant swim 2000 yards !!! "my PDF !! where the hell is my PDF
!! ..... no wonder they tell you to have positioning hooks, racks, or
areas where each item goes every time out .... hell, I had all of it but
panic still strips your ability to remember that you even have those
things let alone where they are.

That a boat of this type only sinks to the waterline (I believe )
doesn't even occur as a thought .... hearts pumping, adrenalin racing
.... a nightmare and I'm wide awake.

I finally remember I have a bilge pump but as I switched it on I had
little faith that 500 gph was going to catch up to water with 19 foot 6
inches of boat length plus a fully flooded stern.

I'm too panicked to even want to stay there waiting for the bilge pump
so I start the engine with the thought of slowly trying to move closer
to shore .... BIG TERRIFYING MISTAKE .... water shifts rearward and the
bow responds exactly like improper use of trim tabs .... I ease it off
and am frozen in terror .....


500 gph can (I'll be damned) catch up to that much water ... weak,
shaken, pale, nauseous and finally back on solid Terra Firma, several
boaters and fishermen help me re-trailer and we all armchair quarterback
what the hell is the problem. Funny how respectful we men are of other
mens new boats, shotguns, golf clubs , they all just stared from a
respectful 3 feet away

..... until one fisherman reached out and applied pressure to the
drainplug. It was tight, firmly in place.

I watched his hand reach for the other and knew we were on the wrong
track ... you could even see the plug was exactly the same height as the
other , obviousely tight .... he twists, the cap pops into the boat and
disappears !

"what the hell ? he says " ... we all stand there stupidly as he fishes
with 2 fingers to retrieve the plug. "I got it" .... it feels like its
attached to something " "yea," I say , " to about 2 feet of hose,
.... thats the motor oil drainplug " out it comes, trailing rubber
entrails of oil hose.

" Hell, where are the threads to hold this to the boat?" he says while
pulling it closer to his nose to inspect it . As he does the "spare
plug' on the wire (tekkys and original walkaround guy's words) pops off
a small clip .... we all see the situation clearly now .... you drain
your oil .... you attach the plug to the oil hose, you push the hose AND
the plug all the way into the boat, and the wire and 'spare' plug follow
all the way so you can screw the REAL plug into the boat. The Tahoe and
probably a lot of others has 2 drainplugs so to speak, and there is NO
SPARE .

Water entered around the oil hose where the hose enters the boat , with
the oil hose plug looking so perfectly matched to the boat threaded
coller it looked like a solid seal .

Even water coming in never changed the plugs 'screwed down tight' look
and level position against the boat hole threads.

"oh yea, says the dealer later on the phone .... we like to level it to
the boat for a finished look"

" Bull****!" I yell, "both of you said the plug was "a spare" because
by leveling the oil line plug you yourself didnt even realize what the
'spare on a wire' was really for ... "

"why cant you see you need to either pull all 2 feet of hose out, or
push the hose and plug all the way in so its obvious the boat needs a
second plug ,or wisest of all is to simply push the hose and hose plug
inside, and properly tighten the finishing real plug.

To call it a spare is total lack of knowledge on your part and
dangerously misleading

..... after 20 minutes more of excuses I hung up and complained to
Tracker Boat Corporation , but I got more politeness than I did
understandig

I think this is new type technology, nobody I talked to has seen this
... be careful when you buy ...

If there is a 2nd drain plug on a wire it is not to be sure ..... 'a
spare', no matter what the Dealers and Tekkies say .... If I'm just a
moron then they need to address we morons, because it took 6 spectators
dock side 10 minute to see the problem, all of these plugs look
identical and if the dealer has leveled it exactly flush with the
surface it becomes an illusion worthy of
Blackstone because there is absolutly no reason to doubt that what you
are seeing is a screwed down drainplug unless you touch it firmly.

~~~~ Surfbored ~~~~

I suppose that anyone that has been around boats long enough has seen
the "missing drainplug" from the water at one time or another.

A friend of mine used to own a boat dealership, _and_ a tunnel boat
race team. One time we made a foursome (my wife, me, his girlfriend,
him) out on the lake for testing of a new motor on the tunnel boat.
For those of you who have never done this, it takes two boats. One
boat holds support crew and a radar gun, while the race driver makes
pass after pass, with adjustments in between. We were using a brand
new Bayliner 21' open bow for the support boat. I was holding the
radar gun and reading off speeds when I noticed my feet were getting
wet!! A quick pull of the ski locker cover showed that the bilge was
already full of water and it was now saturating the carpet.

A guy with 30+ years of wrenching, running, selling, racing, etc. boats
had launched without checking the drain plug ;-)

That made me feel a little better a few years later when I backed my
boat down the ramp into the water, jumped in, and saw the drain plug
sitting on the dash where I'd put it when I cleaned the bilge ;-)
Fortunately, the boat was still on the trailer at the time, so my
puzzled wife quickly figured out what I was gesticulating and yelling
about and pulled it back out of the water. Its amazing how much water
that little hole lets in in a short time.


Don W.

ML OZONE wrote:

Thought I was about to die in a brand new boat 2 months ago

snip...

surface it becomes an illusion worthy of
Blackstone because there is absolutly no reason to doubt that what you
are seeing is a screwed down drainplug unless you touch it firmly.

~~~~ Surfbored ~~~~

Don W wrote in news:jx7Jf.48644
:

Fortunately, the boat was still on the trailer at the time, so my
puzzled wife quickly figured out what I was gesticulating and yelling
about and pulled it back out of the water. Its amazing how much water
that little hole lets in in a short time.


I put the jetboat in at the ramp....
This guy from the dock says to me, "Hey, buddy, there's water pumping out
of the little hole over your swim platform!"

Not to look stupid in front of the assemblage, I retorted, "Oh, that's just
the air conditioner seawater drain outlet.", as I backed the boat around to
the dock and quietly put the drain plug in the starboard side...(c;

Boat was an open cockpit Sea Rayder...(c;

I'll tell you Larry, I had my own personal come-uppance after that
incident ... We all like to think of ourselves as "rambo-efficient" and
after getting home I really took serious reflection on my level of shock
and awe out there. Snapping awake from a sound sleep was the one and
only small excuse I allow for my behavior but the rest was pure
schoolgirl stuff.

The flood of 'small' never discussed 'truths' does the most damage of
all because the situation happenning in reality is a lot different than
any pre-boating safety thinking you can do
... Pfds, Pfd's, oh none of us will forget that need ... but the 46
degree water temp of that day eludes us completely until panic is
re-enforcing your understanding of the amount of danger occurring.

even more amusing to me is a few safety strategems I've never seen
mentioned in any safety manual .... I would definitly add a chapter
titled .... Marine Distress Radio, PfD, Epirb, flaregun, distress flag,
air horn, ..... to use or not to use ?

I had all of these things ,and in fact I had a serious battle with my
wife to explain the need for all the extra money spent for these
items,yet while frozen in place waiting to see if my pump would re-level
and drain that much water I actually couldnt assess my danger level
enough to determine if a flare, air blast, or even my direct line panic
button to the Coast Guard was even warranted .... the fact that I made
it in after about another hour of pumping still doesnt clarify if I was
wise not to attract another boat or CG patrol.

~~~~ Surfbored ~~~~

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:23:32 -0800, (ML OZONE)
wrote:

the fact that I made
it in after about another hour of pumping still doesnt clarify if I was
wise not to attract another boat or CG patrol.

Good observation on how panic can throw our usual judgement out the
window. The best course would probably be to call a "securite,
securite" if you are moving but busy bailing or even a "mayday" to the
CG. A "mayday" does NOT mean you are in need of a rescue NOW, but it
does mean you are in distress and in possible need of rescue or
immediate aid.

A "mayday" could bring another boater alongside or the Coast Guard
with a nice fat deck pump...you would give your condition and
estimation and they would advise and check in on a schedule.

There's no shame in that. Taking on water is a legitimate reason to at
least say "this baby might decorate the bottom if I can't find the
hole".

R.

Thanks, Rhys .... don't know if others agree with you but even my wife
noticed I was not myself for hours afterward and commented that it
seemed I had avoided using the very reason I had won my argument with
her about buying all those emergency goodies ....

btw, I love when a company goes all out to make a good product ... One
piece of emergency gear I bought is essentially a double thick plastic
bottle of the type a 20 oz Coke comes in. but with much heavier
vinylization and thickness.

A refillable valve stem on the blasting head and an included pump lets
you repressurize this air horn and there is no comparison to the decible
levels this can put out versus the ones you see at most boating shops
with the replacable can ...

solidly made, including a volume adjust and trigger lock to stop
accidental sounding.

and I admired the red warning sticker about not pointing the rather
largish horn piece toward yourself whe blasting . 100 lb pressure, this
is for all the world at least equal to an 18 wheelers compressor horn.
Even includes a velcro drop in cup like sleeve for boat mounting.

~~~~ Surfbored ~~~~

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 13:50:52 -0500, in message

rhys wrote:

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:23:32 -0800, (ML OZONE)
wrote:

the fact that I made
it in after about another hour of pumping still doesnt clarify if I was
wise not to attract another boat or CG patrol.

Good observation on how panic can throw our usual judgement out the
window. The best course would probably be to call a "securite,
securite" if you are moving but busy bailing or even a "mayday" to the
CG. A "mayday" does NOT mean you are in need of a rescue NOW, but it
does mean you are in distress and in possible need of rescue or
immediate aid.

Or, of course PAN PAN if the situation is "urgent" but has not yet
become a matter of "distress". If I was taking on enough water to make
me worry I couldn't keep up with it I would skip the SECURITE.

Ryk

Ryk wrote in
:

Or, of course PAN PAN if the situation is "urgent" but has not yet
become a matter of "distress". If I was taking on enough water to make
me worry I couldn't keep up with it I would skip the SECURITE.

Ryk


If my feet were wet and I couldn't stop it rising, I'd skip all this 1930's
radio crap and trip the 406 EPIRB to get some help out there, fast. That's
what it's for, ya know!....

I'll talk to 'em on the radio when they call me to check on the EPIRB
emergency...after they've scrambled the choppers and fast boats...thanks.

Remember the kid calling for help 13 miles off Maine after his daddy fell
overboard, getting no answer until he'd drifted way down to Long Island
when some trawler found him adrift? Don't depend on anyone listening to
the "Marina Channel", 16, and all the noises they make.....

Ryk wrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 13:50:52 -0500, in message

rhys wrote:


On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:23:32 -0800, (ML OZONE)
wrote:


the fact that I made
it in after about another hour of pumping still doesnt clarify if I was
wise not to attract another boat or CG patrol.

Good observation on how panic can throw our usual judgement out the
window. The best course would probably be to call a "securite,
securite" if you are moving but busy bailing or even a "mayday" to the
CG. A "mayday" does NOT mean you are in need of a rescue NOW, but it
does mean you are in distress and in possible need of rescue or
immediate aid.


Or, of course PAN PAN if the situation is "urgent" but has not yet
become a matter of "distress". If I was taking on enough water to make
me worry I couldn't keep up with it I would skip the SECURITE.

Ryk

I think the deal is that Mayday is for life threatening situations, Pans
are for non-life threatening situations (urgent) and Securite are for
warnings not emergencies at all. For example, you would call a securite
if you wer rounding a blind corner in a narrow channel to warn traffic
on the other side.

Gaz

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:40:43 -0500, Larry wrote:

Ryk wrote in
:

Or, of course PAN PAN if the situation is "urgent" but has not yet
become a matter of "distress". If I was taking on enough water to make
me worry I couldn't keep up with it I would skip the SECURITE.

Ryk


If my feet were wet and I couldn't stop it rising, I'd skip all this 1930's
radio crap and trip the 406 EPIRB to get some help out there, fast. That's
what it's for, ya know!....

I'll talk to 'em on the radio when they call me to check on the EPIRB
emergency...after they've scrambled the choppers and fast boats...thanks.

A "Mayday" call on Channel 16 should get immediate response from
nearby boaters, and from the Coast Guard, and potential rescuers will
know that they can talk to you to confirm position and other details.

My understanding is that it may take 30 minutes to two hours for an
EPIRB signal to be picked up by the satellites, passed to an earth
station, then eventually sent to the appropriate Coast Guard station
(who will then probably do a "Mayday Relay" broadcast on 16).



--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
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