Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases, they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a dishonest
bunch.

What are your thoughts.

Jasper

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases, they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a dishonest
bunch.

What are your thoughts.

Jasper


I put them in the same league as car salesmen and real estate brokers.
I would prefer to buy without using them but sometimes you have to. I
did buy my last house, car and boat in private sales. I didn't feel I
needed a broker for any of them this time.

Besides, the best boats never get to a broker. Someone who knows the
boat buys it.

Gaz

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases, they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.


You should ask the folks on alt.sailing.asa what they think of their
resident "broker" capt rob.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

Surveys are required, period. You might even plan on rejecting a few
boats after survey, depending on what you're after.


I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a dishonest
bunch.

real estate, cars, yachts ... they're all the same profession. Most
are honest, but their job is to figure out how much you have in your
pocket and make sure you leave 99% behind and walk out thinking you
got a bargain.

Its your job to know what you want.


What are your thoughts.

Jasper

I'd like to add that you should get a survey before leaving a deposit, even
though you may be pushed by a broker to "move fast". We found a boat we
really liked and fell for the "got 2 other people interested" bull**** from
the broker and left our 10%. Live and learn.
(A great thing about surveyors is that they give you the news, good or bad,
whereas we might overlook too many "little things" because we are already
(in our minds) sailing the deep blue on our beautiful boat!)
After many problems were identified by the surveyor, we pulled our offer the
day before the deadline. The broker informed us he was holding our deposit
as the seller was considering legal actions, even though our retraction of
our offer had been in compliance with the contract.
I visited the broker in his office with his boss present and explained that
my next stop was to my lawyer's office and the broker's boss would be
sitting in the defendants seat WHEN we went to court.
The boss stumbled all over hisself returning my deposit.
Not all brokers are honest, some just seem to be stupid.
MMC

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it
just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent
the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes
through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you
ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases,
they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.


You should ask the folks on alt.sailing.asa what they think of their
resident "broker" capt rob.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

Surveys are required, period. You might even plan on rejecting a few
boats after survey, depending on what you're after.


I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a
dishonest
bunch.

real estate, cars, yachts ... they're all the same profession. Most
are honest, but their job is to figure out how much you have in your
pocket and make sure you leave 99% behind and walk out thinking you
got a bargain.

Its your job to know what you want.


What are your thoughts.

Jasper

MMC wrote:
I'd like to add that you should get a survey before leaving a deposit, even
though you may be pushed by a broker to "move fast". We found a boat we
really liked and fell for the "got 2 other people interested" bull**** from
the broker and left our 10%. Live and learn.
(A great thing about surveyors is that they give you the news, good or bad,
whereas we might overlook too many "little things" because we are already
(in our minds) sailing the deep blue on our beautiful boat!)
After many problems were identified by the surveyor, we pulled our offer the
day before the deadline. The broker informed us he was holding our deposit
as the seller was considering legal actions, even though our retraction of
our offer had been in compliance with the contract.
I visited the broker in his office with his boss present and explained that
my next stop was to my lawyer's office and the broker's boss would be
sitting in the defendants seat WHEN we went to court.
The boss stumbled all over hisself returning my deposit.
Not all brokers are honest, some just seem to be stupid.
MMC


Maybe that broker has a hard time selling boats and was desperate for
some kind of commission. This is a case where you can say 'thank God
for lawyers!

MMC,,, in my humble opinion, boat brokers are totally worthless. They get
in the way. For example. A broker will tell you that the owner is anxious
to sell, so off you go on a 400 miles trip to see a boat. When you get to
the boat, you realize the boat has problems. Either the engine is bad,
rigging needs replacing, sails are no good, whatever. Your not upset
because of the "anxious" in the broker's presentation. The next thing you
do, check on costs of engine repair, price out sails, etc. Finally, you
tell the broker all that you have figured out and tell him/her what you will
offer.

This is when the broker tells you "I spoke to the owner last week and he
won't budge on the asking price".

Then why the F,,, did you just drive 400 miles, what about the "anxious"
part of the presentation? All bull-****. Total bull-****.

This has happened to me. And it has happened on more than one occasion. It
has happened with multiple brokers.

After the third time, fireworks! I almost slugged the guy. I literally had
to be held back.

So, no more brokers. If a boat owner can't sell his/her own boat, I don't
want anything to do with the boat. Period.


This is my opinion. And my experience. Others may feel differently.

TW

"MMC" wrote in message
...
I'd like to add that you should get a survey before leaving a deposit,
even
though you may be pushed by a broker to "move fast". We found a boat we
really liked and fell for the "got 2 other people interested" bull****
from
the broker and left our 10%. Live and learn.
(A great thing about surveyors is that they give you the news, good or
bad,
whereas we might overlook too many "little things" because we are already
(in our minds) sailing the deep blue on our beautiful boat!)
After many problems were identified by the surveyor, we pulled our offer
the
day before the deadline. The broker informed us he was holding our deposit
as the seller was considering legal actions, even though our retraction of
our offer had been in compliance with the contract.
I visited the broker in his office with his boss present and explained
that
my next stop was to my lawyer's office and the broker's boss would be
sitting in the defendants seat WHEN we went to court.
The boss stumbled all over hisself returning my deposit.
Not all brokers are honest, some just seem to be stupid.
MMC

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it
just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent
the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes
through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you
ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases,
they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.


You should ask the folks on alt.sailing.asa what they think of their
resident "broker" capt rob.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

Surveys are required, period. You might even plan on rejecting a few
boats after survey, depending on what you're after.


I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a
dishonest
bunch.

real estate, cars, yachts ... they're all the same profession. Most
are honest, but their job is to figure out how much you have in your
pocket and make sure you leave 99% behind and walk out thinking you
got a bargain.

Its your job to know what you want.


What are your thoughts.

Jasper

I do not feel differently.
Same thing happened to me.
Another classic is the offer scenario.
The following technique works wells.
A boat's real price is around $50,000. The broker is asking $85,000 and is
fishing for about $65,000. You know he is way out to lunch. You like the
boat but you hesitate to make an offer of $50,000. because you might insult
the seller/broker. You request to sea trial the boat. The broker states
that he need a firm offer before a sea trial can take place. You then
decide to make an offer of $60,000. The broker tells you that your offer
is too low and make you feel a little cheap. Later the broker comes in with
a counter offer of $75,000. You tell him that it is too high, then he tells
you to make another offer. Then you both agree to go half way to
$68,500.00. At that stage you feel happy because you negotiated the price
from $85,000. to $68,500. Conversely the seller/broker is please to have
sold a $50,000. for $68,500. and the seller does not mind to paid the broker
his commission.
The above scenario may vary but the game remains the same. I hope that
other people will validate or disagree with the above.

"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message
news:110Lf.9260$lR2.8559@trndny01...
MMC,,, in my humble opinion, boat brokers are totally worthless. They get
in the way. For example. A broker will tell you that the owner is
anxious to sell, so off you go on a 400 miles trip to see a boat. When
you get to the boat, you realize the boat has problems. Either the engine
is bad, rigging needs replacing, sails are no good, whatever. Your not
upset because of the "anxious" in the broker's presentation. The next
thing you do, check on costs of engine repair, price out sails, etc.
Finally, you tell the broker all that you have figured out and tell
him/her what you will offer.

This is when the broker tells you "I spoke to the owner last week and he
won't budge on the asking price".

Then why the F,,, did you just drive 400 miles, what about the "anxious"
part of the presentation? All bull-****. Total bull-****.

This has happened to me. And it has happened on more than one occasion.
It has happened with multiple brokers.

After the third time, fireworks! I almost slugged the guy. I literally
had to be held back.

So, no more brokers. If a boat owner can't sell his/her own boat, I
don't want anything to do with the boat. Period.


This is my opinion. And my experience. Others may feel differently.

TW

"MMC" wrote in message
...
I'd like to add that you should get a survey before leaving a deposit,
even
though you may be pushed by a broker to "move fast". We found a boat we
really liked and fell for the "got 2 other people interested" bull****
from
the broker and left our 10%. Live and learn.
(A great thing about surveyors is that they give you the news, good or
bad,
whereas we might overlook too many "little things" because we are already
(in our minds) sailing the deep blue on our beautiful boat!)
After many problems were identified by the surveyor, we pulled our offer
the
day before the deadline. The broker informed us he was holding our
deposit
as the seller was considering legal actions, even though our retraction
of
our offer had been in compliance with the contract.
I visited the broker in his office with his boss present and explained
that
my next stop was to my lawyer's office and the broker's boss would be
sitting in the defendants seat WHEN we went to court.
The boss stumbled all over hisself returning my deposit.
Not all brokers are honest, some just seem to be stupid.
MMC

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it
just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent
the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes
through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you
ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases,
they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.


You should ask the folks on alt.sailing.asa what they think of their
resident "broker" capt rob.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

Surveys are required, period. You might even plan on rejecting a few
boats after survey, depending on what you're after.


I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a
dishonest
bunch.

real estate, cars, yachts ... they're all the same profession. Most
are honest, but their job is to figure out how much you have in your
pocket and make sure you leave 99% behind and walk out thinking you
got a bargain.

Its your job to know what you want.


What are your thoughts.

Jasper

I agree with you one hundred percent. The thing to do; make an offer ..
and only one offer. Make the offer you feel is what the boat is worth.
Period. Tell the broker [ remember, I don't deal with brokers so in my case
it is the owner ], that this is the offer. No wiggle room ... the only
negotiation is in such things as marina charges, engine check out, that kind
of stuff.

Be prepared for a big loud NO THANKS. This is the owners boat. If he/she
doesn't want to sell it to you, that is life.

Don't be a jerk. Don't try to steal a boat. Make an offer based on what
you feel is fair for you. Maybe you are not going to be successful. Oh
well.


The best boat I ever owned was purchased just this way. I made my offer.
The owner started to counter and I stopped him. I politely said " this is
my offer, my one and only offer and I do not want to get into a negotiation
".

The owner said NO THANKS. We shook hands. I thanked him for showing me the
boat. And left.

Two days later, he called. He said that although my offer was lower than he
wanted, he was impressed with my stedfastness. He asked if I could close
quickly. I said yes, met him a couple of days later and we have remained
friends.

If a broker was involved, my offer would probably never have been delivered
to the owner. I would have to put up with lies, deceit, the "I'll get back
to you" message. No thanks. Life is too short for this crap.

Recently I bumped into a broker who I knew from years ago. She is a total
thief. A lying crook. I must say I took great pleasure telling her what a
loathsome human being she is. Her face got all red. As I left I asked "are
you still lying and cheating people"?

As someone has said "payback is a bitch".






wrote in message
...
I do not feel differently.
Same thing happened to me.
Another classic is the offer scenario.
The following technique works wells.
A boat's real price is around $50,000. The broker is asking $85,000 and
is fishing for about $65,000. You know he is way out to lunch. You like
the boat but you hesitate to make an offer of $50,000. because you might
insult the seller/broker. You request to sea trial the boat. The broker
states that he need a firm offer before a sea trial can take place. You
then decide to make an offer of $60,000. The broker tells you that your
offer is too low and make you feel a little cheap. Later the broker comes
in with a counter offer of $75,000. You tell him that it is too high,
then he tells you to make another offer. Then you both agree to go half
way to $68,500.00. At that stage you feel happy because you negotiated
the price from $85,000. to $68,500. Conversely the seller/broker is
please to have sold a $50,000. for $68,500. and the seller does not mind
to paid the broker his commission.
The above scenario may vary but the game remains the same. I hope that
other people will validate or disagree with the above.

"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message
news:110Lf.9260$lR2.8559@trndny01...
MMC,,, in my humble opinion, boat brokers are totally worthless. They
get in the way. For example. A broker will tell you that the owner is
anxious to sell, so off you go on a 400 miles trip to see a boat. When
you get to the boat, you realize the boat has problems. Either the
engine is bad, rigging needs replacing, sails are no good, whatever.
Your not upset because of the "anxious" in the broker's presentation.
The next thing you do, check on costs of engine repair, price out sails,
etc. Finally, you tell the broker all that you have figured out and tell
him/her what you will offer.

This is when the broker tells you "I spoke to the owner last week and he
won't budge on the asking price".

Then why the F,,, did you just drive 400 miles, what about the "anxious"
part of the presentation? All bull-****. Total bull-****.

This has happened to me. And it has happened on more than one occasion.
It has happened with multiple brokers.

After the third time, fireworks! I almost slugged the guy. I literally
had to be held back.

So, no more brokers. If a boat owner can't sell his/her own boat, I
don't want anything to do with the boat. Period.


This is my opinion. And my experience. Others may feel differently.

TW

"MMC" wrote in message
...
I'd like to add that you should get a survey before leaving a deposit,
even
though you may be pushed by a broker to "move fast". We found a boat we
really liked and fell for the "got 2 other people interested" bull****
from
the broker and left our 10%. Live and learn.
(A great thing about surveyors is that they give you the news, good or
bad,
whereas we might overlook too many "little things" because we are
already
(in our minds) sailing the deep blue on our beautiful boat!)
After many problems were identified by the surveyor, we pulled our offer
the
day before the deadline. The broker informed us he was holding our
deposit
as the seller was considering legal actions, even though our retraction
of
our offer had been in compliance with the contract.
I visited the broker in his office with his boss present and explained
that
my next stop was to my lawyer's office and the broker's boss would be
sitting in the defendants seat WHEN we went to court.
The boss stumbled all over hisself returning my deposit.
Not all brokers are honest, some just seem to be stupid.
MMC

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it
just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they
represent
the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes
through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If
you
ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases,
they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.


You should ask the folks on alt.sailing.asa what they think of their
resident "broker" capt rob.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

Surveys are required, period. You might even plan on rejecting a few
boats after survey, depending on what you're after.


I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a
dishonest
bunch.

real estate, cars, yachts ... they're all the same profession. Most
are honest, but their job is to figure out how much you have in your
pocket and make sure you leave 99% behind and walk out thinking you
got a bargain.

Its your job to know what you want.


What are your thoughts.

Jasper

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:29:49 GMT, wrote:

You know he is way out to lunch. You like the
boat but you hesitate to make an offer of $50,000. because you might insult
the seller/broker. You request to sea trial the boat. The broker states
that he need a firm offer before a sea trial can take place. You then
decide to make an offer of $60,000. The broker tells you that your offer
is too low and make you feel a little cheap.

My employer once sent me to an expensive class on negotiating. There
are 3 points that still stand out for me after 20 years. First, NEVER
be embarassed by your offer. It's business, not personal, and the
economic value of a thing is what that thing will sell for, not what
the seller wants. Second, if 2 people are negotiating and one of them
is under a deadline (even a self-imposed one), that person will almost
always lose, all other things being equal. Finally, as long as you
are willing to walk away from the deal, you keep your power.

Other than that, it comes down to knowing the market..


__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at world wide wiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

Don't be afraid to insult the broker.

wrote in message
...
I do not feel differently.
Same thing happened to me.
Another classic is the offer scenario.
The following technique works wells.
A boat's real price is around $50,000. The broker is asking $85,000 and
is fishing for about $65,000. You know he is way out to lunch. You like
the boat but you hesitate to make an offer of $50,000. because you might
insult the seller/broker. You request to sea trial the boat. The broker
states that he need a firm offer before a sea trial can take place. You
then decide to make an offer of $60,000. The broker tells you that your
offer is too low and make you feel a little cheap. Later the broker comes
in with a counter offer of $75,000. You tell him that it is too high,
then he tells you to make another offer. Then you both agree to go half
way to $68,500.00. At that stage you feel happy because you negotiated
the price from $85,000. to $68,500. Conversely the seller/broker is
please to have sold a $50,000. for $68,500. and the seller does not mind
to paid the broker his commission.
The above scenario may vary but the game remains the same. I hope that
other people will validate or disagree with the above.

"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message
news:110Lf.9260$lR2.8559@trndny01...
MMC,,, in my humble opinion, boat brokers are totally worthless. They
get in the way. For example. A broker will tell you that the owner is
anxious to sell, so off you go on a 400 miles trip to see a boat. When
you get to the boat, you realize the boat has problems. Either the
engine is bad, rigging needs replacing, sails are no good, whatever.
Your not upset because of the "anxious" in the broker's presentation.
The next thing you do, check on costs of engine repair, price out sails,
etc. Finally, you tell the broker all that you have figured out and tell
him/her what you will offer.

This is when the broker tells you "I spoke to the owner last week and he
won't budge on the asking price".

Then why the F,,, did you just drive 400 miles, what about the "anxious"
part of the presentation? All bull-****. Total bull-****.

This has happened to me. And it has happened on more than one occasion.
It has happened with multiple brokers.

After the third time, fireworks! I almost slugged the guy. I literally
had to be held back.

So, no more brokers. If a boat owner can't sell his/her own boat, I
don't want anything to do with the boat. Period.


This is my opinion. And my experience. Others may feel differently.

TW

"MMC" wrote in message
...
I'd like to add that you should get a survey before leaving a deposit,
even
though you may be pushed by a broker to "move fast". We found a boat we
really liked and fell for the "got 2 other people interested" bull****
from
the broker and left our 10%. Live and learn.
(A great thing about surveyors is that they give you the news, good or
bad,
whereas we might overlook too many "little things" because we are
already
(in our minds) sailing the deep blue on our beautiful boat!)
After many problems were identified by the surveyor, we pulled our offer
the
day before the deadline. The broker informed us he was holding our
deposit
as the seller was considering legal actions, even though our retraction
of
our offer had been in compliance with the contract.
I visited the broker in his office with his boss present and explained
that
my next stop was to my lawyer's office and the broker's boss would be
sitting in the defendants seat WHEN we went to court.
The boss stumbled all over hisself returning my deposit.
Not all brokers are honest, some just seem to be stupid.
MMC

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it
just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they
represent
the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes
through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If
you
ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases,
they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.


You should ask the folks on alt.sailing.asa what they think of their
resident "broker" capt rob.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

Surveys are required, period. You might even plan on rejecting a few
boats after survey, depending on what you're after.


I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a
dishonest
bunch.

real estate, cars, yachts ... they're all the same profession. Most
are honest, but their job is to figure out how much you have in your
pocket and make sure you leave 99% behind and walk out thinking you
got a bargain.

Its your job to know what you want.


What are your thoughts.

Jasper