Wayne.B wrote:
No there are several very compact jib sheet shackles available and
many serious racing boats use them.

Yes, I know. Many more don't, though.

... They are so small that they're
almost invisible inside the eye splice.

Well, go to some web sites with pics from Key Wst Race week
and see... a lot of hi-dollar boats out there using bowlines
on the jib sheets, including at least a few of the new Swan
45s. I don't believe that the cost of an $80 shackle is of
any concern to these guys.

Another option that I forgot is a cowlick knot or lark's
head. That's where you push the bight of the jib sheet thru
the D-ring and bring both ends thru it, and cinch the clew
to the center of the sheet. That one is a bit harder to
re-rig in a hurry, but it seems like a better option to me
than to use eye splices cinched up.

DSK

Roger Long wrote:
What about this idea I'm leaning towards at this point?

Put a generous sized eyesplice in each sheet and simply bring the
bitter end back through the eye.

This works until you want to end-for-end it.


I wish I hadn't already bought one half of the sheet accidentally
because just putting a bight in the middle through the cringle and
bringing both bitter ends through it make the most sense to me this
morning.

I've done this on smaller boats; I'm not sure its appropriate for the
high load of larger boats.


It seems like this is something there should be a standard for in
traditional boats. I'm surprised I never picked it up from my tarred
hemp and baggywrinkle days. After all, there is a "Topsail Sheet
Bend". That's almost exactly the same requirements as a headsail so,
why isn't it a "Sail Bend" or isn't there a "Jib Sheet Bend". I asked
over at the Wooden Boat Forum where people obsess about these things
and didn't get an answer.


You mean, like a "tackbend"? We've had this discussion before. I use
bowlines, which I've never heard of failing on normal Dacron.
However, they can snag on stays, and if this happens, I would go to
the stunsail tackbend. I use this knot in numerous places, its
probably the most common knot on my boat. One problem is that with
large sheets you have a huge solid hunk of rope on the clew.

http://www.wellesley.edu/Athletics/P...mainsheet.html

Perhaps there is a need for some new high tech product, perhaps a
Kevlar strap that can be spliced onto a sheet. Or is there some soft
equivalent of a "bulldog" clamp for rope?

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:29:15 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

What about this idea I'm leaning towards at this point?

Put a generous sized eyesplice in each sheet and simply bring the
bitter end back through the eye.

That's OK for a roller furled jib where you leave the sheets attached
permanently, not good however if you have any need for a fast sail
change.

Sounds like another good argument for a safety line when aloft.
MMC
"Howard" wrote in message
ervers.com...
Some where, within the last week or two, I read a report about a fellow
who used a bowline to affix his bosuns chair. He was using some new
fangled, high tech rope. Any way, or so the story goes, he was working
on the top of the mast alternatingly putting stress on and off the
bowline. The new fangled rope worked out of the bowline and down he
came. He broke his fall but still screwed up one foot bad enough that
it had to be amputated, eventually.

Sorry but I can not recall the source of this story.

The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different
characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be
careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core
but would not swear to it.

Howard

Mys Terry wrote:
On 12 Mar 2006 14:33:10 -0600, Dave wrote:


On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:17 -0500, Wayne.B
said:


In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot.

I dunno. I've had singularly bad luck with bowlines' shaking loose.
Still
looking for a good substitute.


In roughly 45 years I've never had that happen. Not once. Are you sure
you are
tying it properly? I'm serious.

In article ,
says...

Not crazy about permanently attached sheets, since we carry 4 jibs and
nearly always need at least 2 in the course of a day. And those shackles
look like a bit more metal than I'd like to see flailing about in the
breeze.

Used to use bowlines, but have used snap shackles for years. Read someplace
that you don't know what being hit on the head is like until you get hit
with a flailing bowline. So the shackles are spliced on and the sheets are
easily changed to a new sail. They will hang on a shroud but so will
bowlines.

In article rs.com,
says...


The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different
characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be
careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core
but would not swear to it.

Have some of that stuff on my new main halyard. Maybe some people can splice
it. I can't. So it is affixed to the head shackle with a knot, but not a
bowline. I forget the name but it is specifically recommended for halyards
because it will not come loose and will not jam in the sheaves. It's also
whipped to make sure it won't come loose.

"Howard" wrote in message
ervers.com...
Some where, within the last week or two, I read a report about a fellow
who used a bowline to affix his bosuns chair. He was using some new
fangled, high tech rope. Any way, or so the story goes, he was working on
the top of the mast alternatingly putting stress on and off the bowline.
The new fangled rope worked out of the bowline and down he came. He broke
his fall but still screwed up one foot bad enough that it had to be
amputated, eventually.

Sorry but I can not recall the source of this story.

The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different
characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be careful.
I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core but would
not swear to it.

Howard

Typically, one uses more than one line when going up the mast to prevent
just this sort of thing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Typically, one uses more than one line when going up the mast to
prevent just this sort of thing.

Are you sure it's "typical"? I would agree that it's smart,
advisable, damn good idea, etc. It might even become universal unless
it turns out that the creationists and intelligent design wacko's are
correct. When I look at the foolishness that goes on around me, I'm
not sure "typical" is a word I would want to defend in this case

--

Roger Long



"Capt. JG" wrote

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:19:04 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Typically, one uses more than one line when going up the mast to
prevent just this sort of thing.

Are you sure it's "typical"?

It was always standard operating procedure on my sailboats. We never
clipped on either, always tied off the halyard with a bowline and
clipped the snap shackle only for redundancy.

Racing boats under way, that's a whole 'nother story. Some crazy
things go on there like free climbing the foreguy to trip off the
spinnaker, etc.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Typically, one uses more than one line when going up the mast to prevent
just this sort of thing.

Are you sure it's "typical"? I would agree that it's smart, advisable,
damn good idea, etc. It might even become universal unless it turns out
that the creationists and intelligent design wacko's are correct. When I
look at the foolishness that goes on around me, I'm not sure "typical" is
a word I would want to defend in this case

When you're right, you're right. For those of us who have a clue, typical is
the right word, but I guess I mis-typed... typical is the case with someone
who is smart enough to realize the downside to not doing it. That problem
usually sorts itself out rather quickly, and one can then apply for a Darwin
Award. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com