WE have a new Waeco Coolmatic icebox conversion unit that we installed
earlier this year. This is the unit:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|406|10789|86418&id=323775 This
unit uses the Danfoss BD35F compressor & controls.

It was installed with an optional Mobitronics AC power supply (when AC is
present, solenoid switches from DC to AC). This unit puts out 24V with 110V
input - Spec says nominal output voltage is 25V and no-load voltage is 29V.
The unit is purpose made for the BD35 compressors.

PROBLEM: This weekend, the compressor would not come on for long periods (on
AC or DC) - temperature would rise to 48F or so. (Expected about 38F based
on setting). Eventually, just when I thought the unit was completely dead),
it would kick in and run again. Nothing I did such as switching unit on/off
or rotating thermostat to different settings would cause any reaction).
Previously, the unit would cycle on and off and maintain temperature in a
narrow band. Only change that I can see, is that the batteries were fully
charged last night and we were at a different dock (for AC)

The Waeco manual says:

12v Cut-in voltage 11.7V Cut-out voltage 10.4V
24V Cut-In voltage 24.2V Cut-Out voltage 22.8V

Distance from batteries is about 10 ft. Wire size is 8ga except for
Mobitronics unit which has short leads of lighter wiring (about 1ft in/out)

Do you think it is possible I am getting cutout due to too HIGH a voltage?

(I don't suspect too low, because I have run unit mostly with undercharged
batteries with no problem.)

I did measure voltage at Refrig teminals (unit not running) but with charger
on and it was about 12.7-13V) - I forget 24V number, but I think it was
something like 25.2V.

GBM

In article ,
says...


WE have a new Waeco Coolmatic icebox conversion unit that we installed
earlier this year. This is the unit:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|406|10789|86418&id=323775 This
unit uses the Danfoss BD35F compressor & controls.

(Snip)

Well, that's funny. (Funny peculiar, that is, not funny ha ha.)

Our unit, a 12 volt keel cooled Danfoss, acted up in much the same manner
last weekend. For no good reason it started pulling only 2 amps where it
normally draws about 4.2. It does not switch to AC.. It was running and the
evaporator was cool to the touch but not cold and definitely not frosted. We
did have a low voltage situation when the battery dropped to 10.9. That's low
enough so the voltage at the machine is too low to start. We remedied the
battery problem and full charged the batteries but the unit continued to draw
only 2 amps with almost no cooling. I tried disconnecting and reconnecting
everything and decided it needed to be recharged. On that, we went to bed (on
the hook). When we got upo the next morning the unit was running normally and
making ice like mad. It still is, now on shore power (though the unit always
runs off the batteries.

I asked the vendor from whom I bought it what was going on. Best he could
come up with was that there had been a low battery situation and the
controller freaked out and took some time to stabilize. I have heard that
those solid state controllers can get freaky but this was the first time it
happened to us in five years and also th first time we had such a low battery
condition for several hours. (We just had a new battery installed and
somebody forgot to attach one of the red cables. It wasn't on line.)

GBM, Low voltage is the most common cause of start up problems. Low
voltage can be traced to low battery voltage or the boat's electrical
circuit. The only way to insure that it is not a voltage problem is to
connect a full charged battery directly to the electrical module with
proper sized correct polarity jumper cables. The older model BD2.5 and
BD3 compressors can indicate a low voltage fault with a LED if one is
installed between module terminals C and D. Newer compressors BD35 and
BD50 have a full function computer chip like your automobile. You can
learn more about LED trouble shooting by viewing the slide show on my
web site at http://www.kollmann-marine.com. There are several sections
on all these compressors also in my 12/24 Volt Refrigeration Manual.

The fan circuit overload will stop the compressor if the fan is faulty.
There is a separate set of 12 volt + and - terminals on the module that
powers the fan even it compressor is running on 24 volts, for cooling
when the thermostat closes. This fan circuit on older units is limited
to a maximum of one amp and ½ amp on BD35 and BD50 compressor modules.
To eliminate this circuit as a cause for a false compressor start,
disconnect the fan wires and any other units connected to these
terminals. When eliminating the fan make sure that the thermostat wire
is not removed from C terminal on the older models.

High amperage overload: The first thing to check is to see that there
is adequate air flow through the condenser coil, see if the fan is
running or could dust be blocking the coils. To test for overload
connect a 10 amp scale ammeter in series with the power wire to the
module and watch the start up and running amps. If the start amps
exceed 9 amps or the running amps are above 7 amps, when operated on 12
volts, there is an overload. An amperage overload indicates the
compressor is faulty or if recently serviced with refrigerant there is
a refrigerant problem.

The module is more likely to fail than the Compressor but WARNING, do
not install a new module on a compressor that test bad with the ohm
meter.

For those with an Adler-Barbour, I'd like to inject that the one installed
on the old boat, an Endeavour 35, caused a repetitive buzzing noise....
bzzt....bzzt.....bzzt..............bzzzt..bzzt..bz zt......bzzt....bzzt...
on CHANNEL 16 VHF. Only during the bzzt would it open the squelch. It had
just enough bzzt that a Standard Eclipse Plus didn't have enough squelch
control to shut it out, driving anyone near the speaker SIMPLY MAD by the
end of their watch.

Took me a while to trace down this bzzt on VHF 16.....until I inadvertently
flipped off the wrong breaker, shutting down the damned 12V electronic cold
plate....when it just stopped.


bzzt....bzzt.....bzzt..............bzzzt..bzzt..bz zt......bzzt....bzzt...
bzzt....bzzt.....bzzt..............bzzzt..bzzt..bz zt......bzzt....bzzt...
bzzt....bzzt.....bzzt..............bzzzt..bzzt..bz zt......bzzt....bzzt...
AAAAAAHAHHHHHHHCCCCCKKKKKk!!!!

No other channel, like the ones you never listen to, had any bzzt on
them.....ONLY CHANNEL 16.

Idiots....

Thanks Richard - After posting here, I found you site and repeated the
question there, but in more detail.

Low voltage is unlikely because batteries were freshly charged - could be a
bad connection somewhere - I will check. High/Low voltage is possible if an
input range of say 110-120v does not result in 24V within the cutin/out
range.

Fan circuit overload is possible - I added some insulation above unit -
maybe something dropped into fan - I will try vacuuming. I will also try
disconnecting the fan.

I will also try and get an ammeter installed - I don't like the idea of
adding more connections though - Maybe I can get a clamp on type.

Funny thing though, once unit does start, it keeps running, so you would not
think there could be an overload.

I will post this reply to your site too and perhaps we can move discussion
there?

GBM

wrote in message
oups.com...
GBM, Low voltage is the most common cause of start up problems. Low
voltage can be traced to low battery voltage or the boat's electrical
circuit. The only way to insure that it is not a voltage problem is to
connect a full charged battery directly to the electrical module with
proper sized correct polarity jumper cables. The older model BD2.5 and
BD3 compressors can indicate a low voltage fault with a LED if one is
installed between module terminals C and D. Newer compressors BD35 and
BD50 have a full function computer chip like your automobile. You can
learn more about LED trouble shooting by viewing the slide show on my
web site at http://www.kollmann-marine.com. There are several sections
on all these compressors also in my 12/24 Volt Refrigeration Manual.

The fan circuit overload will stop the compressor if the fan is faulty.
There is a separate set of 12 volt + and - terminals on the module that
powers the fan even it compressor is running on 24 volts, for cooling
when the thermostat closes. This fan circuit on older units is limited
to a maximum of one amp and ½ amp on BD35 and BD50 compressor modules.
To eliminate this circuit as a cause for a false compressor start,
disconnect the fan wires and any other units connected to these
terminals. When eliminating the fan make sure that the thermostat wire
is not removed from C terminal on the older models.

High amperage overload: The first thing to check is to see that there
is adequate air flow through the condenser coil, see if the fan is
running or could dust be blocking the coils. To test for overload
connect a 10 amp scale ammeter in series with the power wire to the
module and watch the start up and running amps. If the start amps
exceed 9 amps or the running amps are above 7 amps, when operated on 12
volts, there is an overload. An amperage overload indicates the
compressor is faulty or if recently serviced with refrigerant there is
a refrigerant problem.

The module is more likely to fail than the Compressor but WARNING, do
not install a new module on a compressor that test bad with the ohm
meter.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 15:23:35 -0400, "GBM"
wrote:

WE have a new Waeco Coolmatic icebox conversion unit that we installed
earlier this year. ...///...
Previously, the unit would cycle on and off and maintain temperature in a
narrow band. Only change that I can see, is that the batteries were fully
charged last night and we were at a different dock (for AC)

The Waeco manual says:

12v Cut-in voltage 11.7V Cut-out voltage 10.4V
24V Cut-In voltage 24.2V Cut-Out voltage 22.8V

Distance from batteries is about 10 ft. Wire size is 8ga except for
Mobitronics unit which has short leads of lighter wiring (about 1ft in/out)

Do you think it is possible I am getting cutout due to too HIGH a voltage?
///
GBM


It certainly looks that way to me. But I am evidently naive in this
area: why cut in at 11.7V when the voltage of a freshly charged
battery is around 12.5V ??

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

"Brian Whatcott" wrote

The Waeco manual says:

12v Cut-in voltage 11.7V Cut-out voltage 10.4V
24V Cut-In voltage 24.2V Cut-Out voltage 22.8V

Distance from batteries is about 10 ft. Wire size is 8ga except for
Mobitronics unit which has short leads of lighter wiring (about 1ft
in/out)

Do you think it is possible I am getting cutout due to too HIGH a
voltage?
///
GBM


It certainly looks that way to me. But I am evidently naive in this
area: why cut in at 11.7V when the voltage of a freshly charged
battery is around 12.5V ??

Brian,

These numbers puzzled me too.

I think it may mean that the controls will turn the unit off at 10.4v so as
to protect the battery and will turn back on again when voltage reaches
11.7v.

GBM

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:35:40 -0400, "GBM"
wrote:


"Brian Whatcott" wrote

The Waeco manual says:

12v Cut-in voltage 11.7V Cut-out voltage 10.4V
24V Cut-In voltage 24.2V Cut-Out voltage 22.8V

Distance from batteries is about 10 ft. Wire size is 8ga except for
Mobitronics unit which has short leads of lighter wiring (about 1ft
in/out)

Do you think it is possible I am getting cutout due to too HIGH a
voltage?
///
GBM


It certainly looks that way to me. But I am evidently naive in this
area: why cut in at 11.7V when the voltage of a freshly charged
battery is around 12.5V ??

Brian,

These numbers puzzled me too.

I think it may mean that the controls will turn the unit off at 10.4v so as
to protect the battery and will turn back on again when voltage reaches
11.7v.

GBM


Makes sense to me. That means the cause of the misfunction lies
elsewhere, I guess


Brian Whatcott Altus OK

In article ,
says...



"Brian Whatcott" wrote

The Waeco manual says:

12v Cut-in voltage 11.7V Cut-out voltage 10.4V
24V Cut-In voltage 24.2V Cut-Out voltage 22.8V

Distance from batteries is about 10 ft. Wire size is 8ga except for
Mobitronics unit which has short leads of lighter wiring (about 1ft
in/out)

Do you think it is possible I am getting cutout due to too HIGH a
voltage?
///
GBM


It certainly looks that way to me. But I am evidently naive in this
area: why cut in at 11.7V when the voltage of a freshly charged
battery is around 12.5V ??

Brian,

These numbers puzzled me too.

I think it may mean that the controls will turn the unit off at 10.4v so as
to protect the battery and will turn back on again when voltage reaches
11.7v.

That's 11.7 volts at the controller terminals while attempting to start, not
at the battery. Given voltage drop from battery to controller and the
further momentary drop on high current draw while starting, you need a lot
more than 12 volts at the battery.

GBM wrote:
Thanks Richard - After posting here, I found you site and repeated the
question there, but in more detail.

Low voltage is unlikely because batteries were freshly charged - could be a
bad connection somewhere - I will check. High/Low voltage is possible if an
input range of say 110-120v does not result in 24V within the cutin/out
range.

Fan circuit overload is possible - I added some insulation above unit -
maybe something dropped into fan - I will try vacuuming. I will also try
disconnecting the fan.

I will also try and get an ammeter installed - I don't like the idea of
adding more connections though - Maybe I can get a clamp on type.

Funny thing though, once unit does start, it keeps running, so you would not
think there could be an overload.

I will post this reply to your site too and perhaps we can move discussion
there?

GBM

My site and mail is off for a couple of hours on Sundays so I will
answer your questions here.
1. If you disconnect shore power from boat the question of high voltage
will be eliminated. The BD35 Module can except voltages up to 29 volts
before it shuts down compressor.
2. I have no information on Mobiletronics's inverter or how it is
wired to the Danfoss module. If one of the safety perimeters of module
is being violated there will be a single audible beep coming from
module. Is there a beep sound when unit is turned on and unit does no
run? Does fan run even if unit does not run?
3. Terminal P on module is only used if low voltage cutout is to be
increased so if there is a wire on P terminal remove it and tape the
lose end.
4. The only wire to be connected to Module terminal D is a ground wire
from troubleshooting LED and that ground is only activated when a
module parameter is exceeded. One flash of LED indicates low voltage,
Two flashes a fan problem and so on. Low voltage on start may not be
detectable with a meter unless you have Superman's eyes. Any
resistance connection in wiring anywhere between module and battery
will signal module to abort when current starts to flow, that why I
recommend by passing all wiring.