"Mark Weaver" wrote:

Or is it just possible that the Bushies reversed course on greater
openness because of the recent mass roundup democracy / human-rights
activists who were given quick show trials and long, long prison
sentences? Doesn't it tweak anybody's conscience (canadians,
aussies, europeans, as well as yanks slipping into Cuba through the
back door) to go and vacation in a repressive police state (however
nice the beach hotels may be)?

I agree it's BS for the US govt to tell US citizens where they can and
cannot travel, but I certainly could not go spend my vacation dollars
to help perpetuate such a regime (even if that's not the intent of
spending $$ there, that's the effect).

American citizens spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year
supporting China, through buying products and services - most of which
replaced stateside companies with our own workers. Anything you can say
about Cuba does not even rate as pocket change compared to China.

We could also mention the thousands of Central and South Americans
killed by right wing death squads over the last two decades, too.
Nothing Cuba has done compares with the ugliness in Guatamala, El
Salvador, Argentina, and others.

Bell,

That's not the point. I doubt that many of us who lived thru the '62
missile crisis give a **** about human rights in Cuba. What I remember
is that the communist (the sworn enemy of the US at that time) nukes
they were putting in were only about 120 miles from my home in
Hollywood, Florida which is why I joined the US Army Oct. 25, 1962. As
I have said before, It changed my life in ways you can not imagine. For
me and a few million other people on the east coast up to Washington DC
it was up close and personal. After I die you guys left can do what you
want, but until then ,I will not forget or forgive as long as Castro
rules Cuba.

Ron

wrote in message

"Mark Weaver" wrote:

Or is it just possible that the Bushies reversed course on greater
openness because of the recent mass roundup democracy / human-rights
activists who were given quick show trials and long, long prison
sentences? Doesn't it tweak anybody's conscience (canadians,
aussies, europeans, as well as yanks slipping into Cuba through the
back door) to go and vacation in a repressive police state (however
nice the beach hotels may be)?

I agree it's BS for the US govt to tell US citizens where they can and
cannot travel, but I certainly could not go spend my vacation dollars
to help perpetuate such a regime (even if that's not the intent of
spending $$ there, that's the effect).

American citizens spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year
supporting China, through buying products and services - most of which
replaced stateside companies with our own workers. Anything you can say
about Cuba does not even rate as pocket change compared to China.

We could also mention the thousands of Central and South Americans
killed by right wing death squads over the last two decades, too.
Nothing Cuba has done compares with the ugliness in Guatamala, El
Salvador, Argentina, and others.


Without getting into a game of 'which repressive dictator runs the worst
police state' game, I'll be glad to stipulate that there are plenty of other
governments besides Cuba that I would not be willing to give either
financial support (or tacit approval to) by spending my vacation there.
But, as I've said, I think that legally banning travel to Cuba is a bad
idea.

Mark

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:43:11 +0000, Dennis O'Connor wrote:

I have said it numerous times... The best way to flush the marxists
out of Cuba is to, "love em to death"... Boat loads of trinket and
sex crazed touristas bringing green backs, blue jeans, MP3s, the
golden arches, spring break, and all the other benefits of an
advanced technological society will run down those Marxists like
road kill on the interstate... In less than five years there won't
be a Marxist left on the island worth mentioning..

LOL, if they had any sense, they would close their borders. Better
yet, let's wait until all those sex crazed touristas are in Cuba,
then close our borders. ;-)

thunder wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:43:11 +0000, Dennis O'Connor wrote:

I have said it numerous times... The best way to flush the marxists
out of Cuba is to, "love em to death"... Boat loads of trinket and
sex crazed touristas bringing green backs, blue jeans, MP3s, the
golden arches, spring break, and all the other benefits of an
advanced technological society will run down those Marxists like
road kill on the interstate... In less than five years there won't
be a Marxist left on the island worth mentioning..

LOL, if they had any sense, they would close their borders. ...

The USSR knew that, that's why the iron curtain.

But please remember, Castro didn't start off as a Russian ally nor as a
communist; he started off as a Cuban nationalist. He was touring the USA
as a popular hero when organized crime (the mob Jedgar said didn't
exist) caught him closing their bordellos and sending the ho's home.
When he started closing their drug and money laundering operations he
suddenly became a (gasp) communist and sanctions were applied to protect
American (mob) interests. After all the Lucky Lucciano & co had helped
us win WW2. But the Bay of Pigs didn't work out so .... the beat goes
on.

(Ron Thornton) wrote:

That's not the point.

You mean: that's not _your_ point

I doubt that many of us who lived thru the '62
missile crisis give a **** about human rights in Cuba.

I lived through that, and I was in range, too. I am also aware that we
had tried to invade Cuba a couple of years earlier and were allowing
exiles to stage raids from Florida. Of course they wanted protection of
heavy duty weapons - and they got it - the protection that is. For in
return for removing the missiles we promised not to invade the island.

But none of that is the point. Fact is that the whole world, except for
those of us in the "Land of the Free" can go to Cuba. Oh wait,
Cuban-Americans can go to Cuba, too. We claim that travel and trade will
democratize sordid gov'ts around the world - except Cuba. It makes no
sense and THAt is why we oppose the policy.

If you wish to still live in the past, be my guest. The rest of us are
in the 21st century.