I have just been told of several Panda generators that have had a problem with
water in the windings and one at least one where water got into the engine with
only 32 hours on it. The factory seems to be repairing some of these but not
others. Other then slamming the brand or the technology, does anyone have any
knowledge of this problem and what may be the cure?

I own a Fischer Panda 4.2 KW generator...it's now on a skid in Ft.
Lauderdale after having to replace it due to it being completely
unreliable. I have suffered water intrusion several times and the engine
has been back to the factory multiple times.

Fischer Panda even had their lead engineer come out and inspect the
installation and they didn't find any problems (other than very minor
things like missing tie wraps). They continue to harp on "over cranking",
which is something that I've never done as the engine has always started
right away.

I would be very interested in hearing the details of the water intrusion
problem. I'm afraid that you're going to find out that this is an indemic
problem with their generators. At least the smaller ones.

-- Geoff Schultz

(TORMAC53) wrote in
:

I have just been told of several Panda generators that have had a
problem with water in the windings and one at least one where water
got into the engine with only 32 hours on it. The factory seems to be
repairing some of these but not others. Other then slamming the brand
or the technology, does anyone have any knowledge of this problem and
what may be the cure?

SORRY,no good news from this past FP owner. will be buying something
else next time around.




(Florida Keyz) wrote in message ...
Does anyone have any GOOD fisher panda stories?

Well I guess I survived long enough without Fischer Panda Genset problems.
My 4.2 won't crank at all. I release the compression and tried the handle
without luck. It seems to be frozen. Any suggestions from the group???

PS - I saw a Northern Lights on sale....


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
.77...
I own a Fischer Panda 4.2 KW generator...it's now on a skid in Ft.
Lauderdale after having to replace it due to it being completely
unreliable. I have suffered water intrusion several times and the engine
has been back to the factory multiple times.

Fischer Panda even had their lead engineer come out and inspect the
installation and they didn't find any problems (other than very minor
things like missing tie wraps). They continue to harp on "over cranking",
which is something that I've never done as the engine has always started
right away.

I would be very interested in hearing the details of the water intrusion
problem. I'm afraid that you're going to find out that this is an indemic
problem with their generators. At least the smaller ones.

-- Geoff Schultz

(TORMAC53) wrote in
:

I have just been told of several Panda generators that have had a
problem with water in the windings and one at least one where water
got into the engine with only 32 hours on it. The factory seems to be
repairing some of these but not others. Other then slamming the brand
or the technology, does anyone have any knowledge of this problem and
what may be the cure?

I purchased and installed a new FP 4.2 this summer. Now has about 40 hours
with no problems.
However these failure notices are scaring the hell out of me. The FP is the
only unit that would fit in the locker.
How many hours on yours before this failure? How old is the unit? I would
like to know what you find out about the cause.
Kindly keep in touch. Thanks, Jay


"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in message
...
Well I guess I survived long enough without Fischer Panda Genset problems.
My 4.2 won't crank at all. I release the compression and tried the handle
without luck. It seems to be frozen. Any suggestions from the group???

PS - I saw a Northern Lights on sale....


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
.77...
I own a Fischer Panda 4.2 KW generator...it's now on a skid in Ft.
Lauderdale after having to replace it due to it being completely
unreliable. I have suffered water intrusion several times and the
engine
has been back to the factory multiple times.

Fischer Panda even had their lead engineer come out and inspect the
installation and they didn't find any problems (other than very minor
things like missing tie wraps). They continue to harp on "over
cranking",
which is something that I've never done as the engine has always started
right away.

I would be very interested in hearing the details of the water intrusion
problem. I'm afraid that you're going to find out that this is an
indemic
problem with their generators. At least the smaller ones.

-- Geoff Schultz

(TORMAC53) wrote in
:

I have just been told of several Panda generators that have had a
problem with water in the windings and one at least one where water
got into the engine with only 32 hours on it. The factory seems to be
repairing some of these but not others. Other then slamming the brand
or the technology, does anyone have any knowledge of this problem and
what may be the cure?

Same with me. I wanted the most KW that would fit in the engine without a
major remodeling. Right now it appears to be a broken/bent exhaust valve.
I plan to pull the head sometime this week. The unit is about 5 years old
and has 100 hours on it. Only use it when we stay over night in an
anchorage and need to run the A/C. Sometimes to charge the batteries.

Since you bought the unit I would not worry - just move on. If it breaks
fix it. What else can you do. Hopefully there are thousands of satisfied
FP owners who will never have problems. Maybe you will be one of them.


"just me" wrote in message
news:hut4b.319329$uu5.66069@sccrnsc04...
I purchased and installed a new FP 4.2 this summer. Now has about 40
hours
with no problems.
However these failure notices are scaring the hell out of me. The FP is
the
only unit that would fit in the locker.
How many hours on yours before this failure? How old is the unit? I would
like to know what you find out about the cause.
Kindly keep in touch. Thanks, Jay


"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in message
...
Well I guess I survived long enough without Fischer Panda Genset
problems.
My 4.2 won't crank at all. I release the compression and tried the
handle
without luck. It seems to be frozen. Any suggestions from the group???

PS - I saw a Northern Lights on sale....


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
.77...
I own a Fischer Panda 4.2 KW generator...it's now on a skid in Ft.
Lauderdale after having to replace it due to it being completely
unreliable. I have suffered water intrusion several times and the
engine
has been back to the factory multiple times.

Fischer Panda even had their lead engineer come out and inspect the
installation and they didn't find any problems (other than very minor
things like missing tie wraps). They continue to harp on "over
cranking",
which is something that I've never done as the engine has always
started
right away.

I would be very interested in hearing the details of the water
intrusion
problem. I'm afraid that you're going to find out that this is an
indemic
problem with their generators. At least the smaller ones.

-- Geoff Schultz

(TORMAC53) wrote in
:

I have just been told of several Panda generators that have had a
problem with water in the windings and one at least one where water
got into the engine with only 32 hours on it. The factory seems to
be
repairing some of these but not others. Other then slamming the
brand
or the technology, does anyone have any knowledge of this problem
and
what may be the cure?

Finally spent the time and pulled the head and if I were to guess it is a
water intrusion problem. Exhaust valve is frozen in the valve guide and the
piston is stuck in the sleeve. This week I will pull the gen set and
relocate the repair center in my garage. Two choices for the water is a
blown/leaking head gasket or water back via the exhaust. Either way the
outcome would be the same (sal****er cooled). Since the exhaust valve is
frozen I would expect the water via the exhaust. This will not happen
again.

I was wondering on shipping the whole thing back to FP or fixing it myself.
Any opinions from the group.


"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in message
...
Well I guess I survived long enough without Fischer Panda Genset problems.
My 4.2 won't crank at all. I release the compression and tried the handle
without luck. It seems to be frozen. Any suggestions from the group???

PS - I saw a Northern Lights on sale....


"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
.77...
I own a Fischer Panda 4.2 KW generator...it's now on a skid in Ft.
Lauderdale after having to replace it due to it being completely
unreliable. I have suffered water intrusion several times and the
engine
has been back to the factory multiple times.

Fischer Panda even had their lead engineer come out and inspect the
installation and they didn't find any problems (other than very minor
things like missing tie wraps). They continue to harp on "over
cranking",
which is something that I've never done as the engine has always started
right away.

I would be very interested in hearing the details of the water intrusion
problem. I'm afraid that you're going to find out that this is an
indemic
problem with their generators. At least the smaller ones.

-- Geoff Schultz

(TORMAC53) wrote in
:

I have just been told of several Panda generators that have had a
problem with water in the windings and one at least one where water
got into the engine with only 32 hours on it. The factory seems to be
repairing some of these but not others. Other then slamming the brand
or the technology, does anyone have any knowledge of this problem and
what may be the cure?

We note Mr. Schultz recent internet comments (08/23/2003) regarding
his experience with Fischer Panda Generators. Mr. Schultz has provided
a selective commentary on his situation and has failed to provide the
full story. Please see full details below.

Fischer Panda responded and recorded all the details surrounding Mr.
Schultz' complaints on an internet posting Feb. 06, 2003 on
www.macnaughtongroup.com.
The summary of this posting concluded with the following summary:
Fischer Panda has tried everything to resolve the issues with Mr.
Schultz' generator which was purchased in August of 1999. In
frustration we eventually offered Mr. Schultz 3 options including one
which would replace his Panda 4200 with an equivalent competitor
generator. Mr. Schultz declined the offer and chose to pursue his
claim through the courts.

Note: The warranty on Mr. Schultz generator engine had long expired,
and the after sales support and settlement offer made by Fischer Panda
Generators far exceeded the terms and conditions of the three year
warranty covering this generator.

After the Fischer Panda service manager visited Mr. Schultz' boat, an
additional communication was sent on May 21, 2003 regarding a problem
with his installation. The communication included a major
recommendation regarding his installation and responded to his
questions regarding the cause of a broken valve spring: A summary of
this response follows:

After reviewing the PMS04-990905 installation, we are concerned that
there is still a great potential of water ingestion from over
cranking. The exhaust hose rises vertical for about 3 feet and then
bends horizontally (with an initial slight upwards angle) into about 6
feet of hose. Then hose dips slightly about 2 feet to thru-hull.
Thru-hull is about 14 inches from the water line. Bob will contact you
next week regarding your installation. We recommend that in the
interim special care is taken to avoid over cranking." (Mr. Schultz
subsequently visited the Fischer Panda premise's and was provided with
recommended changes to his installation which would reduce potential
water ingestion.)

We note that you are challenging Farymann's assessment that the valve
springs were split in two as a result of being pitted and rusted. They
state that the reason for the fracture is the result of a corrosive
medium, such as steam within the valve cover. In the absence of
evidence to support your position we are not able to lodge a warranty
complaint on your behalf with Farymann.



Mr. Schultz has chosen to institute legal proceedings for excessive
claims against Fischer Panda and has rejected a generous offer by
Fischer Panda Generators to reach an amicable settlement on this
matter.
We question Mr. Schultz motive in selectively using the internet to
promote his position in advance of the court case.

For a complete copy of Fischer Panda's response to Mr. Schultz, please
visit the site: www.macnaughtongroup.com or a copy can obtained by
contacting .

Sara Jewell

Fischer Panda Generators

TEl: 954-462-2800 Fax: 954-462-2801

We note Mr. Schultz recent internet comments (08/23/2003) regarding
his experience with Fischer Panda Generators. Mr. Schultz has provided
a selective commentary on his situation and has failed to provide the
full story. Please see full details below.



Fischer Panda responded and recorded all the details surrounding Mr.
Schultz' complaints on an internet posting Feb. 06, 2003 on
www.macnaughtongroup.com.
The summary of this posting concluded with the following summary:
Fischer Panda has tried everything to resolve the issues with Mr.
Schultz' generator which was purchased in August of 1999. In
frustration we eventually offered Mr. Schultz 3 options including one
which would replace his Panda 4200 with an equivalent competitor
generator. Mr. Schultz declined the offer and chose to pursue his
claim through the courts.

Note: The warranty on Mr. Schultz generator engine had long expired,
and the after sales support and settlement offer made by Fischer Panda
Generators far exceeded the terms and conditions of the three year
warranty covering this generator.

After the Fischer Panda service manager visited Mr. Schultz' boat, an
additional communication was sent on May 21, 2003 regarding a problem
with his installation. The communication included a major
recommendation regarding his installation and responded to his
questions regarding the cause of a broken valve spring: A summary of
this response follows:
After reviewing the PMS04-990905 installation, we are concerned that
there is still a great potential of water ingestion from over
cranking. The exhaust hose rises vertical for about 3 feet and then
bends horizontally (with an initial slight upwards angle) into about 6
feet of hose. Then hose dips slightly about 2 feet to thru-hull.
Thru-hull is about 14 inches from the water line. Bob will contact you
next week regarding your installation. We recommend that in the
interim special care is taken to avoid over cranking." (Mr. Schultz
subsequently visited the Fischer Panda premise's and was provided with
recommended changes to his installation which would reduce potential
water ingestion.)

We note that you are challenging Farymann's assessment that the valve
springs were split in two as a result of being pitted and rusted. They
state that the reason for the fracture is the result of a corrosive
medium, such as steam within the valve cover. In the absence of
evidence to support your position we are not able to lodge a warranty
complaint on your behalf with Farymann.



Mr. Schultz has chosen to institute legal proceedings for excessive
claims against Fischer Panda and has rejected a generous offer by
Fischer Panda Generators to reach an amicable settlement on this
matter.
We question Mr. Schultz motive in selectively using the internet to
promote his position in advance of the court case.


For a complete copy of Fischer Panda's response to Mr. Schultz, please
visit the site: www.macnaughtongroup.com or a copy can obtained by
contacting .





Sara Jewell

Fischer Panda Generators

TEl: 954-462-2800 Fax: 954-462-2801

Chad,

How very good to hear from you, although I think that you have your
facts wrong.

First off, I've never heard of www.macnaughtongroup.com and I can't find
any postings with my name in there. I do find complaints from others
about Fischer Panda generators in there. Perhaps you have so many
people complaining about your generators that you've having trouble
keeping them straight! :-(

The crux of the matter is that my Fischer Panda generator has been
unreliable to the point of being unusable. A fellow cruiser who has the
same generator (and has even more problems than I do) has commented that
he has to plan his cruising to locations where he can fly parts in. He
literally has an almost complete spare which he cannibalizes for parts.

I replaced my Fischer Panda with a NextGen this past July and I paid for
the new generator. As far as Chad's assertion that they tried
"everything" to resolve my issue, I have to laugh. Yes, they offered to
replace the generator with an "equivalent competitor generator", but the
generators that they offered weren't anything that I felt comfortable
with. Listen, I'm planning on leaving on a circumnavigation next year
and I need a generator that is maintainable and has good support. I've
learned a lot since installing the Fischer Panda & I can assure you that
what they were offering wasn't what I needed.

What's also interesting is that I was told by Sarah Jewel, whose job at
FP is to deal with problem customers, was that Fischer Panda didn't want
to replace it with one of their own generators in case I had more
problems. What does that say?

I will also point out that as part of this offer Fischer Panda required
me to remove all Internet postings and not to comment on their
generators in the future...

And as far as Fischer Panda's inspection of my generator installation is
concerned, I have to laugh at that also. Everything was within the
design guidelines printed in their manuals. They keep harping on over-
cranking as being the cause of my problems. The generator has always
started right away. In the few cases where it didn't start due to
electrical problems, I always closed the raw water intake seacock as to
not ingest too much water. I've pulled the hoses off of the muffler on
quite a few occasions and have never found excessive water in it. Their
concerns would be valid if they matched my situation, but they don't.

I'll also note that after Bob from Fischer Panda inspected my
installation he was supposed to have contacted me with his
recommendations. Did he? NO! I had to contact them. Great customer
service...

Quite honestly I'm in the middle of a major house project and don't have
time fully address this. Believe me, I will and plan to create a web
site to chronicle my and other's experiences with Fischer Panda
generators. Perhaps I'll have time tomorrow when Isabel comes through.

I'm not quite sure what prompted this posting from FP. Perhaps it's
that they just lost a motion to have my litigation moved to their home
turf in FL. Their lawyers have been dragging this out for years and
finally this can move forward. I can't wait to start my investigation
where they'll be forced to open their records to me!

-- Geoff

(Fischer Panda Generators) wrote in
m:

We note Mr. Schultz recent internet comments (08/23/2003) regarding
his experience with Fischer Panda Generators. Mr. Schultz has provided
a selective commentary on his situation and has failed to provide the
full story. Please see full details below.



Fischer Panda responded and recorded all the details surrounding Mr.
Schultz' complaints on an internet posting Feb. 06, 2003 on
www.macnaughtongroup.com.
The summary of this posting concluded with the following summary:
Fischer Panda has tried everything to resolve the issues with Mr.
Schultz' generator which was purchased in August of 1999. In
frustration we eventually offered Mr. Schultz 3 options including one
which would replace his Panda 4200 with an equivalent competitor
generator. Mr. Schultz declined the offer and chose to pursue his
claim through the courts.

Note: The warranty on Mr. Schultz generator engine had long expired,
and the after sales support and settlement offer made by Fischer Panda
Generators far exceeded the terms and conditions of the three year
warranty covering this generator.

After the Fischer Panda service manager visited Mr. Schultz' boat, an
additional communication was sent on May 21, 2003 regarding a problem
with his installation. The communication included a major
recommendation regarding his installation and responded to his
questions regarding the cause of a broken valve spring: A summary of
this response follows:
After reviewing the PMS04-990905 installation, we are concerned that
there is still a great potential of water ingestion from over
cranking. The exhaust hose rises vertical for about 3 feet and then
bends horizontally (with an initial slight upwards angle) into about 6
feet of hose. Then hose dips slightly about 2 feet to thru-hull.
Thru-hull is about 14 inches from the water line. Bob will contact you
next week regarding your installation. We recommend that in the
interim special care is taken to avoid over cranking." (Mr. Schultz
subsequently visited the Fischer Panda premise's and was provided with
recommended changes to his installation which would reduce potential
water ingestion.)

We note that you are challenging Farymann's assessment that the valve
springs were split in two as a result of being pitted and rusted. They
state that the reason for the fracture is the result of a corrosive
medium, such as steam within the valve cover. In the absence of
evidence to support your position we are not able to lodge a warranty
complaint on your behalf with Farymann.



Mr. Schultz has chosen to institute legal proceedings for excessive
claims against Fischer Panda and has rejected a generous offer by
Fischer Panda Generators to reach an amicable settlement on this
matter.
We question Mr. Schultz motive in selectively using the internet to
promote his position in advance of the court case.


For a complete copy of Fischer Panda's response to Mr. Schultz, please
visit the site: www.macnaughtongroup.com or a copy can obtained by
contacting .





Sara Jewell

Fischer Panda Generators

TEl: 954-462-2800 Fax: 954-462-2801