I am considering a purchase of a long neglected sail boat. I am
confident of my ability to assess and estimate time & costs for mot of
the issues involved in bring this vessel up to good condition, except
one problem. The cored deck is soft, very soft in some places. The cabin
top is not cored and is in good condition, except around a couple
opening ports where the ports were torqued down so tight to stop leaks
that it began cracking the fiberglass.

But it's the decks that worry me as I have never done a repair of balsa
cored decks, nor had reason to consider such costs previously. This boat
is out of the country, btw, so I would be depending on yard work done in
either Grenada, Carriacou, or Trinidad. Before talking with yards about
this, I would like to have better info of what is likely to be involved
so that I can better assess their plans, proposals, costs. This is for a
36' boat. Recommendations on yards or personnel in those islands
welcomed.

I can feel the softness, and in many places see the indication of cracks
in the nonskid around the soft areas, pretty much defining the places I
feel. In one place I can make the deck squeek by standing with feet
apart and just shifting weight between them.

Can anyone relate their experiences and costs with such repairs? Or
point me towards good source materials about the subject.

I am also wondering whether I could sail the boat between the islands
mentioned above to get to a preferred yard for the work. The mast is
deck stepped, the cabin top under the mast seems stiff, and the shrouds
are not deck mounted but rather to the hull and internal bulkheads. I
could also motor as the engine seems fine for its age.

\It really depends on how much is good and how much is soft in any
amount. If there are any more than isolated soft spots be prepaired to
pay out some bucks or spend a year in hell. Otherwise, I would look for
another boat.

Soft decks means moisture in the core. Real soft decks means rot. You
will need to rip down to the lower skin back to solid core and then
another foot or so of top skin only. Let the edges dry out, recore and
reskin and then fair out to the original deck. You could core with
plywood but the added weight will raise the COG and make the boat a
little more tender.

Also if the rot is extensive you better make sure how the cabin top is
supported. On many production boats the side decks provide most of the
support for the cabin. When you remove that support the cabin top must
be held in place by temprary bracing and tied carefully into the recored
side decks.

wrote:
I am considering a purchase of a long neglected sail boat. I am
confident of my ability to assess and estimate time & costs for mot of
the issues involved in bring this vessel up to good condition, except
one problem. The cored deck is soft, very soft in some places. The cabin
top is not cored and is in good condition, except around a couple
opening ports where the ports were torqued down so tight to stop leaks
that it began cracking the fiberglass.

But it's the decks that worry me as I have never done a repair of balsa
cored decks, nor had reason to consider such costs previously. This boat
is out of the country, btw, so I would be depending on yard work done in
either Grenada, Carriacou, or Trinidad. Before talking with yards about
this, I would like to have better info of what is likely to be involved
so that I can better assess their plans, proposals, costs. This is for a
36' boat. Recommendations on yards or personnel in those islands
welcomed.

I can feel the softness, and in many places see the indication of cracks
in the nonskid around the soft areas, pretty much defining the places I
feel. In one place I can make the deck squeek by standing with feet
apart and just shifting weight between them.

Can anyone relate their experiences and costs with such repairs? Or
point me towards good source materials about the subject.

I am also wondering whether I could sail the boat between the islands
mentioned above to get to a preferred yard for the work. The mast is
deck stepped, the cabin top under the mast seems stiff, and the shrouds
are not deck mounted but rather to the hull and internal bulkheads. I
could also motor as the engine seems fine for its age.



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

could also motor...

It's probably not a good idea to go anywhere out of range of cost
effective (for you) towing in any boat you haven't shaken down for at
least 30-40 hours. It takes some time to find out what really works and
what's just about to fail - there are so many ways a PO could have let
things go to hell. Eg., check out the _bottom_ of your fuel tanks to see
what's going to get stirred up and plug up your fuel system when the sea
gets up a little.

deck repair...

There are numerous stories on sites on the net. For large areas, basicly
you cut off either the top or the bottom skin, clean out all the
existing (bad) core, re-install a core of your choice, then re-install
the skin you pulled off. Working from the bottom usually is blocked by
expensive decorating; the top requires that you spend a lot of time on
the finish or install non-skid to hide all the seams. All deck fittings
should have hard core (plywood) under them.

To avoid the same problem in the future, fittings should be installed
with water proof bolt holes: Eg. for a 1/4 fastener, you drill a 1/2"
hole (after the deck is fixed), close the bottom of the hole with a
piece of good tape, fill the hole solidly with epoxy "peanut butter"
made with high compression filler (as opposed to light weight filler),
drill the 1/4" fastener hole in the (center of) epoxy after it's dry. To
water proof holes in an existing cored deck, take a big nail, grind a
flat on the last 3/8", bend the flat at right angles to the shank, chuck
the long part in a drill, stick the short bend with the flat and it's
sharp edges throught the hole into the core, and ream out a space around
the hole, paying particular attention to cleaning off the inside of the
skins around the hole; vacuum clean. Fill as above.

That's the methods. The costs I can't help you with. If I were a yard
boss, I wouldn't even think of bidding such a job. Time & material all
the way.

Rufus

I repaired 20 sqft of spongy decks in an Ericson 37 myself in about six days at
a cost of a few hundred.
The result was excellent...no further problems and absolutely invisable. Here's
how:
1. Removed the headliner under the soft decks
2. Routed out the lower glass layer (the rot was visable thru the glass)
2. Cleaned out the rot
3. Made templates of the cut out areas
4. Cut out 3/8" phenolic (resin impregnated canvas) in the shapes of the
templates.
5. Cemented the phenolic into the cutout areas with epoxy putty
6. Filled in the periphery of the phenolic with epoxy putty.
7. Reinstalled the headliner. Done!
Good luck with it.
Ted

First, as most are suggesting, such deck repair is not simple job.

However a friend of mine had already purchased an Ericson ('60s vintage)
before he discovered it had spongy cored decks through out. This, in spit of
the fact that he had a complete survey prior to purchase that didn't mention
the problem.

So far, I'm surprised no one has suggested repairs from the outside. This
is how my friend did his. Saved having to take the interior apart and all
the related glass mess inside the boat. My friend was living aboard at the
time. Also eliminates the need to do overhead glass layup.

With grinders he cut out section of the deck glass, from topside and just
down to the cores (ended up being 100% of the total deck area), cleaned out
the old rotten/soggy core material and rebedded new core foam to the old
interior glass work.

Since the deck cores generally
--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions terminate just short of the bulkheads, each section that
he removed ended up running from bulkhead to bulkhead.

Once the section of core material was inplace, he layed in the first couple
layer of mat and roving, leaving the final layer to be accomplished after he
had all of the adjacent areas recored and glassed in.

When completed, smoothed and faired, he applied the non-skid patterns from
sketches and measurements. I think he used crushed walnut shells, set in
resin or paint.

He estimates that he added a few hundred pounds to the the deck weight but
no more than the deck weighted with all that water in the core.

BTW, this fellow is a lawyer and this was his first boat. The surveyor was
arranged by the broker.. My friend took the surveyor, the broker and the
seller to court but the judge throw it out.. Kinda like "Buyer Be Ware" when
purchasing a boat that old.

Thanks for your thoughts, Rufus. Much appreciated.

Glenn Ashmore wrote:

Also if the rot is extensive you better make sure how the cabin top is
supported. On many production boats the side decks provide most of
the support for the cabin. When you remove that support the cabin top
must be held in place by temprary bracing and tied carefully into
the recored side decks. .

Good thing to consider. I will examine this more closely. I believe that
there is substantial support from bulkheads and poles w/in the cabins,
but I will be sure to examine this again.

You could buy an identical, but sound boat for a lot less than what
this one will cost to fix. Plus you will save a year or two of waiting
for the work to be completed. If the decks are this bad, also budget
for all new electronics, new engine, and all rigging.

That's interesting, considering I have not mentioned the potential sale
price, nor make of the boat for comparison to a good condition model.


This would be a 36' stoughtly made vessel for about $10,000. Same make &
similar class are selling for $60-90,000 in Europe and the US. Although
a substantial number of same make & similar class were made, this
particular variation is one of only a couple dozen boats at most made of
this specific model. It's the unique features that make this a
consideration at all for me.

I expect - if I make this purchase - to replace all standing and running
rigging, interior cushions, all opening ports, two hatches, all hoses,
much of the wiring.

The engine seems sound for its age. Better than many I have seen here on
the east coast of US during the past few months of boat hunting.

As for where I am coming from in my consideration of perhaps buying a
glass boat in need of restoration, I have owned and worked on sailboats
for almost 3 decades as a private owner, including a refurb after
20yrs, and am confident of my ability to assess most of the time,
effort and costs involved with restoring this boat - except for the
cored decks issue. There I have no experience.

Thanks for any and all thoughts from everyone.

Sorry, my fingers are all thumbs and they have screwed up the previous text
and sent blank posts.

I think you should still be able to figure out the procedure I was trying to
discribe.


--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions