Reading about Skip and Lydia' Gundlatch's misadventure gets me
pondering all I have heard about people who spend years building a
boat or saving for casting off only to go a little ways and finding it
just doesnt work for them. It just seems like a shame to spend so
much time only to have it all go to hell. Maybe it is better to not
put it all into that boat but to make her simple and smaller so that
if she gets wrecked or otherwise doesnt work out it isnt such a blow.
I wonder what the statistics are on what fraction of people who do
this sort of thing have it work out.
My personal strastegy is that my own boat is sorta small but just
large enough for me to cross the Gulf in good weather (28'). She is
long ago paid for and isnt a modern beauty but she works well. I have
no complicated stuff, no shorepower, no marine head, no chart plotter,
nothing fancy at all. I do have a good hull, good sails , a good
engine with fixed 3 bladed prop, new rigging and PAPER CHARTS. GPS is
just a back-up for my personal navigation obsession. If she was
wrecked, I'd shrug my shoulders and figger out what to do next and it
wouldnt be too big a deal.
People think they have JUST ONE ROLL OF THE DICE but it isnt like that
at all.

Good luck all

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:48:50 -0800, Frogwatch wrote:

My personal strastegy is that my own boat is sorta small but just large
enough for me to cross the Gulf in good weather (28'). She is long ago
paid for and isnt a modern beauty but she works well. I have no
complicated stuff, no shorepower, no marine head, no chart plotter,
nothing fancy at all. I do have a good hull, good sails , a good engine
with fixed 3 bladed prop, new rigging and PAPER CHARTS. GPS is just a
back-up for my personal navigation obsession. If she was wrecked, I'd
shrug my shoulders and figger out what to do next and it wouldnt be too
big a deal.

I'm with you on this. We used to keep our little boat on Lake Huron.
From time to time as we were daysailing we'd watch Admiral Gotbucks sail
his big Gozzard out of a 30' wide channel into the lake and I'd remind
my mate that if we lost our boat, the insurance company would have to pay
us 3X what we paid for her...and if Gotbucks went on the rocks?... Then
we'd raise another glass of Veuve and wonder whether they were having any
more fun than we were. Although I suppose it's all relative. If you can
spend $3/4million on a boat and it doesn't hurt, why not?

You have the right stuff on this subject, IMHO. How did you keep VC
cold?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:08:58 -0800, rexbradley wrote:

You have the right stuff on this subject, IMHO. How did you keep VC cold?

old school baby...cubes and lots of them! the only other things taking up
space in the icebox were smoked salmon, caviar, capers and a big red onion.

On Feb 12, 7:17 pm, "mr.b" wrote:
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:08:58 -0800, rexbradley wrote:
You have the right stuff on this subject, IMHO. How did you keep VC cold?

old school baby...cubes and lots of them! the only other things taking up
space in the icebox were smoked salmon, caviar, capers and a big red onion.

Being a 6th gen N. FL native, I figure even ice is a luxury and I
rarely bother with it. If we got too hot, we'd flood the cockpit
about 1/4 way and soak our feet. I'd drink hot coffee (from a
thermos) in the summer figuring that when I cooled off from drinking
it that even if it was 99 degrees out I'd feel cool. When underway, I
dont eat much and subsist on Pop Tarts, apples and peanut butter
sandwiches. Cooking on a sailboat, what a weird idea. I'll wait till
safely anchored to cook. We cook on sterno cans shoved down into the
burner wells of the old alcohol stove. Still, it is luxury compared
to real camping.

In article .com,
"Frogwatch" wrote:

It just seems like a shame to spend so much time only to have it all
go to hell. Maybe it is better to not put it all into that boat but
to make her simple and smaller so that if she gets wrecked or
otherwise doesnt work out it isnt such a blow. I wonder what the
statistics are on what fraction of people who do this sort of thing
have it work out.

I'd say that very few boaters get the boat that really works for them.
So many spend so much for a boat that they're not comfortable with, that
they can't take out on a whim. How many boats equipped for
circumnavigation sit idle at the dock or in the yard? How many work
megahours to pay for the beast they don't have time to visit?

I'm with you, and the guy with the tagline that said something like "A
small boat and a bag of cash will beat the boat tied to the bank every
day."

I can paint and commission Xan in a day, usually do. Sometimes I will
also do some chores in the spring, but usually leave the brightwork and
other piddling around for some nice day at anchor. "Inside" work gets
done when it rains. Every 3 or 4 years, I might even put some wax on the
hull.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Feb 12, 5:48 pm, "Frogwatch" wrote:
Reading about Skip and Lydia' Gundlatch's misadventure gets me
pondering all I have heard about people who spend years building a
boat or saving for casting off only to go a little ways and finding it
just doesnt work for them. It just seems like a shame to spend so
much time only to have it all go to hell. Maybe it is better to not
put it all into that boat but to make her simple and smaller so that
if she gets wrecked or otherwise doesnt work out it isnt such a blow.
I wonder what the statistics are on what fraction of people who do
this sort of thing have it work out.
My personal strastegy is that my own boat is sorta small but just
large enough for me to cross the Gulf in good weather (28'). She is
long ago paid for and isnt a modern beauty but she works well. I have
no complicated stuff, no shorepower, no marine head, no chart plotter,
nothing fancy at all.
I was with you until you got to the no marine head part ;-)
I'm guessing you are a singlehandler....
What if you want to go farther than just the bahamas, what if you need
more tankage (your boat carries about 20 gals of water?), what if you
are going
to live on this boat for years?? What if you don't want to get a
divorce?
That being said, a 40+ footer, while inviting at dock, is a bear under
storm
conditions if not reefed early enough.
Ok, smaller can be better (really ... stop laughing... I'm being
serious)
but there is a point where it can be too small.
Tom

The Pardey's don't have a head and they have sailed all over the planet.

====
"tom" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 12, 5:48 pm, "Frogwatch" wrote:
Reading about Skip and Lydia' Gundlatch's misadventure gets me
pondering all I have heard about people who spend years building a
boat or saving for casting off only to go a little ways and finding it
just doesnt work for them. It just seems like a shame to spend so
much time only to have it all go to hell. Maybe it is better to not
put it all into that boat but to make her simple and smaller so that
if she gets wrecked or otherwise doesnt work out it isnt such a blow.
I wonder what the statistics are on what fraction of people who do
this sort of thing have it work out.
My personal strastegy is that my own boat is sorta small but just
large enough for me to cross the Gulf in good weather (28'). She is
long ago paid for and isnt a modern beauty but she works well. I have
no complicated stuff, no shorepower, no marine head, no chart plotter,
nothing fancy at all.
I was with you until you got to the no marine head part ;-)
I'm guessing you are a singlehandler....
What if you want to go farther than just the bahamas, what if you need
more tankage (your boat carries about 20 gals of water?), what if you
are going
to live on this boat for years?? What if you don't want to get a
divorce?
That being said, a 40+ footer, while inviting at dock, is a bear under
storm
conditions if not reefed early enough.
Ok, smaller can be better (really ... stop laughing... I'm being
serious)
but there is a point where it can be too small.
Tom

I've come to agree that smaller is better. How small? Well, guess it's
up to the person or persons.

Ramblings:

Go back quite a few years, to 1963 or so. I had just got out of
highschool and wanted some adventure. Got an old 16-footer. I think it
was a Petrel? No bucks, you know! Repaired and such and put in a
_gasoline_ stove and small outboard. Stocked up and spent a mostly
wonderful 6 months. Ah, the wonders of youth. Using a bucket. Well two
buckets actually; one for bodily functions (no holding tank
requirement then) and the other for baths, washing dishes and so
forth.

Fast forward to 1972. A bit more bucks. Bought a brand new Southcoast
22 trailer sailer kit. Mostly great weekends. Got married. More mostly
great weekends. Looked at the bank account. We did some extensive
mods, bought a bunch of charts (a LOT cheaper then), a sextant and
learned how to use it, stocked up and sailed off. The two of us spent
a mostly wonderful year. One of the downsides was getting caught in a
hurricane several hundred miles offshore! Still pretty young and
invincible, you know. That was not a pleasant experience at all. It
was just a little cat 1 hurricane and I don't even remember the name.
But still had seas considerably higher than out 35-ft mast. Being in a
few thousand feet of water was a plus.

The years go on with quite a few sailboats in and out, all weekend and
vacation stuff while making money and all that other necessary stuff.

1999. A live-aboard cruiser friend who raised his two kids aboard was
ready to pack in in. We bought his rather neglected, but structuraly
sound Coronado 35 ketch. Now the Coronado is HUGE inside and handles
much "larger", so think of it as a 45-footer with a 10 foot "air"
stern.

Spent a year and threw a bunch of boat bucks at her. Installed: 400
Watts of solar, 2 wind generators, autopilot, redundant GPS,
electronic charting on redundant laptops, icebox to fridge conversion,
Lectra/San, watermaker.

Sold the house and business, and spent 2 1/2 years living aboard and
cruising. Ended when a week after our 29th anniversery wife informed
me she was leaving me for another woman. In a state of depression I
did about the stupidest thing in my life - sold the boat at a big
loss.

A bit later I found a Morgan 302 (30-ft) that needs inside work at a
ridiculously low price. Has a 1,200 hour Universal diesel. A couple
weeks later met my wonderful now wife. We spent a couple years out in
the bay on weekends and are now getting it all together to to spiff
the Morgan up, equip with icebox to fridge conversion (that is NICE!),
watermaker and solar. I can retire next Sept. If the boat is ready
we'll set sail. If not, I'll work until it is ready. Okay, I'm 61.

Now it doesn't sound like much difference between a 35 and a 30, but
remember space changes more as the cube of LOA. Add in the famous, or
infamous if you prefer, Coronado 35 layout and I'd say we have closer
to half the room in the Morgan. But we do have a roomy vee-berth
(neither of us minds bouncing), a head with soon to be shower, a soon
to be dinette, a galley, a comfortable cockpit and a surprisingly lot
of stowage space.

We almost bought a friend's slightly damaged Gulfstar 44 after Rita.
Now that is one monster! Really a floating condo. Decided against it
for several reasons. One, it's really a motorsailer (NOT the 43 real
sailboat). Two and most importantly it can be VERY expensive to
maintain. Cost to own also goes up with the cube of the LOA.


As far a going offshore "only in good weather". I disagree. A
well-founded boat will handle it, assuming a thoughtful, prepared and
experienced crew. I wouldn't do it in a Macgregor say, or even most
Hunters. Nor in a stock Southcoast (it had all new, heavier standing
rigging and other things). The larger the boat, the somewhat less
uncomfortable. I say "somewhat less" because I've been more
uncomfortble skippering that Gulfstar in rough weather than ever in
life, including the hurricane in the 22-footer! People routinely cross
oceans in 24-footers more or less. Not to say one should seek out
storms, but we all know it's going to happen.

In our travels we've met couples on 50-footers that wouldn't think of
anything smaller and mention they couldn't get by spending less than
$10,000 a month living expense. We've met couples with a couple kids
living on 24-footers that wouldn't have anything larger if you gave it
to them and say they spend $200 - $300 a month. And everything in
between.


I gotta have standing headroom (even when young it was a pain to walk
crouched over); a place to sit and eat or work at a table and a
comfortable place to sleep. I suppose add in solar (I wasn't impressed
by my wind gens), watermaker and stowage for provisions and such for
extended away-from-it-all cruising (IOW self-contained). My wife has
to have standing headroom, a comfortable place to sleep and a stand-up
shower (Solar heating or stove heating in a solar bag is fine for
her). So a 30-footer fits the bill nicely. Some 28's would as well.

Yep, a small boat and a suitcase full of money beats a large boat
welded to the dock.

Rick

Rick Morel wrote:

I've come to agree that smaller is better. How small? Well, guess it's
up to the person or persons.

Ramblings:

Go back quite a few years, to 1963 or so. I had just got out of
highschool and wanted some adventure. Got an old 16-footer. I think it
was a Petrel? No bucks, you know! Repaired and such and put in a
_gasoline_ stove and small outboard. Stocked up and spent a mostly
wonderful 6 months. Ah, the wonders of youth. Using a bucket. Well two
buckets actually; one for bodily functions (no holding tank
requirement then) and the other for baths, washing dishes and so
forth.

Fast forward to 1972. A bit more bucks. Bought a brand new Southcoast
22 trailer sailer kit. Mostly great weekends. Got married. More mostly
great weekends. Looked at the bank account. We did some extensive
mods, bought a bunch of charts (a LOT cheaper then), a sextant and
learned how to use it, stocked up and sailed off. The two of us spent
a mostly wonderful year. One of the downsides was getting caught in a
hurricane several hundred miles offshore! Still pretty young and
invincible, you know. That was not a pleasant experience at all. It
was just a little cat 1 hurricane and I don't even remember the name.
But still had seas considerably higher than out 35-ft mast. Being in a
few thousand feet of water was a plus.

The years go on with quite a few sailboats in and out, all weekend and
vacation stuff while making money and all that other necessary stuff.

1999. A live-aboard cruiser friend who raised his two kids aboard was
ready to pack in in. We bought his rather neglected, but structuraly
sound Coronado 35 ketch. Now the Coronado is HUGE inside and handles
much "larger", so think of it as a 45-footer with a 10 foot "air"
stern.

Spent a year and threw a bunch of boat bucks at her. Installed: 400
Watts of solar, 2 wind generators, autopilot, redundant GPS,
electronic charting on redundant laptops, icebox to fridge conversion,
Lectra/San, watermaker.

Sold the house and business, and spent 2 1/2 years living aboard and
cruising. Ended when a week after our 29th anniversery wife informed
me she was leaving me for another woman. In a state of depression I
did about the stupidest thing in my life - sold the boat at a big
loss.

A bit later I found a Morgan 302 (30-ft) that needs inside work at a
ridiculously low price. Has a 1,200 hour Universal diesel. A couple
weeks later met my wonderful now wife. We spent a couple years out in
the bay on weekends and are now getting it all together to to spiff
the Morgan up, equip with icebox to fridge conversion (that is NICE!),
watermaker and solar. I can retire next Sept. If the boat is ready
we'll set sail. If not, I'll work until it is ready. Okay, I'm 61.

Now it doesn't sound like much difference between a 35 and a 30, but
remember space changes more as the cube of LOA. Add in the famous, or
infamous if you prefer, Coronado 35 layout and I'd say we have closer
to half the room in the Morgan. But we do have a roomy vee-berth
(neither of us minds bouncing), a head with soon to be shower, a soon
to be dinette, a galley, a comfortable cockpit and a surprisingly lot
of stowage space.

We almost bought a friend's slightly damaged Gulfstar 44 after Rita.
Now that is one monster! Really a floating condo. Decided against it
for several reasons. One, it's really a motorsailer (NOT the 43 real
sailboat). Two and most importantly it can be VERY expensive to
maintain. Cost to own also goes up with the cube of the LOA.


As far a going offshore "only in good weather". I disagree. A
well-founded boat will handle it, assuming a thoughtful, prepared and
experienced crew. I wouldn't do it in a Macgregor say, or even most
Hunters. Nor in a stock Southcoast (it had all new, heavier standing
rigging and other things). The larger the boat, the somewhat less
uncomfortable. I say "somewhat less" because I've been more
uncomfortble skippering that Gulfstar in rough weather than ever in
life, including the hurricane in the 22-footer! People routinely cross
oceans in 24-footers more or less. Not to say one should seek out
storms, but we all know it's going to happen.

In our travels we've met couples on 50-footers that wouldn't think of
anything smaller and mention they couldn't get by spending less than
$10,000 a month living expense. We've met couples with a couple kids
living on 24-footers that wouldn't have anything larger if you gave it
to them and say they spend $200 - $300 a month. And everything in
between.


I gotta have standing headroom (even when young it was a pain to walk
crouched over); a place to sit and eat or work at a table and a
comfortable place to sleep. I suppose add in solar (I wasn't impressed
by my wind gens), watermaker and stowage for provisions and such for
extended away-from-it-all cruising (IOW self-contained). My wife has
to have standing headroom, a comfortable place to sleep and a stand-up
shower (Solar heating or stove heating in a solar bag is fine for
her). So a 30-footer fits the bill nicely. Some 28's would as well.

Yep, a small boat and a suitcase full of money beats a large boat
welded to the dock.

Rick

Interesting post Rick. I'd never get my wife to
go cruising in our Catalina 27, and she thinks the
Irwin 38 is too small. For myself, I think the 38
is ok for two people, but crowed for three or
four. To each their own I guess. Also, it
depends on how long you are out for.

Don W.