On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:13:42 -0600, KLC Lewis wrote:

In the past, I tended to agree with the old view that towing a dink behind
the mothership was "lubberly," and ill-advised. I still tend to think that
way when a hard dink is involved, but recently purchased a 9 foot Genesis
(Walker Bay) inflatable. With this monster sitting, inflated and assembled,
in our dining room last evening, it suddenly occurred to me how much like a
very large PFD this dinghy is, which has me reconsidering my standard MOB
routine.

No thoughts, but a couple Stories:

First, many single-handers will trail a floating line behind them in case
they fall overboard. One guy I knew was trailing iirc 100ft of line when
he fell in. Swimming as fast as he could, he JUST made it to the end of
the line. Now he tows 200 ft... (in open conditions, of course! In a
crowded waterway that line is guaranteed to foul in someone's prop...)

Second, I was running "chaseboat" for some canoeists paddling across the
Strait, and when changing crews we decided to use an inflatable: we'd
trail the inf. back to the canoe, they'd roll into it, we'd pull it up,
and they'd get into Far Cove. Worked OK until the wind came up... One
paddler swore her handprint was imbedded in the stern of Far Cove when she
was fending it off while trying to board, and the whole procedure was
abandoned when a gust of wind picked the dinghy up and dropped it
upside-down on top of the canoe. (we just didn't worry about scratched
gelcoat and got everybody off the canoe at that point)

And that was just 20-25knots in Georgia Strait!

druid

KLC Lewis wrote:
In the past, I tended to agree with the old view that towing a dink behind
the mothership was "lubberly," and ill-advised. I still tend to think that
way when a hard dink is involved, but recently purchased a 9 foot Genesis
(Walker Bay) inflatable. With this monster sitting, inflated and assembled,
in our dining room last evening, it suddenly occurred to me how much like a
very large PFD this dinghy is, which has me reconsidering my standard MOB
routine.

At this time my standing MOB Rule is that upon crew going aglub, the first
thing to do is to toss them a horseshoe with floating line attached, keeping
an eye on them (or trying to) while coming about for rescue attempts. Other
than retrieving "Oscar" in the Navy (for non-squids, "Oscar" is a stuffed
manakin made of sailor clothing wearing a PFD, used for Man Overboard
drills) and PFD's or rings tossed overboard, I've not had the misfortune (so
far) of having to actually rescue an actual person.

But this inflatable dink has me rethinking things. By towing the dink when
weather allows, if crew should go overboard the dinghy could be cut loose
immediately. This would provide conscious MOB with a boat to swim towards,
and give rescue crew another marker (though one with more windage) to help
with locating the missing crew. The floating line in the water would also
give the MOB something to grab, and its streaming direction would offer
clues as to the current and rate of drift, assuming it's not being trailed
behind a wind-driven dink.

And, of course, trailing a dinghy in the water in fair weather could become
a handful if the wind picks up.

Any thoughts?

A lot of people seem to think that towing a dinghy
is a bad idea, and I've never tried it even in
benign conditions. The times I've been offshore
we've kept the inflatable lashed down upside down
on the front deck, and the outboard on the stern rail.

Just the same, I think your idea may have some
merit with the appropriate rig. You would need a
good cover or self-bailing system to keep the
inflatable from filling with water and becoming a
towed sea anchor. You would also need some
floating line, and plan on trailing the dink 100'
or so behind the boat to give the MOB a chance to
catch it on the way by. Now, some line loops on
the side and back of the dink would give a
conscious MOB a pretty good chance of grabbing the
dink on the way by, and possibly hauling
themselves aboard.

You might experiment with this during the summer
by jumping overboard while the boat is going 7kts
and seeing how hard it is to grab the dink as it
goes by.

If you plan on casting loose the dink, I'd suggest
a one-way parachute drogue on the line to stop the
dink from blowing away when you release it.

Let us know what you find out.

Don W.

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com...
You might want to think about rigging a drogue that deploys when you
release the dink as the boat may well drift faster than the MOB can
swim. Or, You might experiment with having a really long floating
painter that you can deploy so that it will circle the MOB when you do
a quick stop (like a life sling)...

Have fun,

-- Tom



It would be interesting to see what the tradeoff is between complexity
and usefulness. The previous COB workshop I believe showed that simpler
tends to be better.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


I think I'm going to try a variation on one of the previously-mentioned
ideas: Short painter (three boat lengths, or 100 feet for good measure)
but additional MOB line (same polypropylene or other floating line) on a
spool. Quick release on the spool would allow the rest of the painter (as
MOB line) to pay out while the boat encircles the MOB. I think it's worth
experimenting with. The inflatable stays attached to the boat, as does the
line.




How are you planning on trying it?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"druid" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:13:42 -0600, KLC Lewis wrote:

In the past, I tended to agree with the old view that towing a dink
behind
the mothership was "lubberly," and ill-advised. I still tend to think
that
way when a hard dink is involved, but recently purchased a 9 foot Genesis
(Walker Bay) inflatable. With this monster sitting, inflated and
assembled,
in our dining room last evening, it suddenly occurred to me how much like
a
very large PFD this dinghy is, which has me reconsidering my standard MOB
routine.

No thoughts, but a couple Stories:

First, many single-handers will trail a floating line behind them in case
they fall overboard. One guy I knew was trailing iirc 100ft of line when
he fell in. Swimming as fast as he could, he JUST made it to the end of
the line. Now he tows 200 ft... (in open conditions, of course! In a
crowded waterway that line is guaranteed to foul in someone's prop...)

Second, I was running "chaseboat" for some canoeists paddling across the
Strait, and when changing crews we decided to use an inflatable: we'd
trail the inf. back to the canoe, they'd roll into it, we'd pull it up,
and they'd get into Far Cove. Worked OK until the wind came up... One
paddler swore her handprint was imbedded in the stern of Far Cove when she
was fending it off while trying to board, and the whole procedure was
abandoned when a gust of wind picked the dinghy up and dropped it
upside-down on top of the canoe. (we just didn't worry about scratched
gelcoat and got everybody off the canoe at that point)

And that was just 20-25knots in Georgia Strait!

druid



As to the trailing line bit, we did that on a run down the coast of Cal to
Cabo, but we only did it at night. During the day there were plenty of crew
on deck, but at night only two people. They were supposed to be tethered,
but you never know.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article ,
"KLC Lewis" wrote:

But this inflatable dink has me rethinking things. By towing the dink when
weather allows, if crew should go overboard the dinghy could be cut loose
immediately.


Sounded good at first, but in the time I could reach the painter and
untie it from both cleats, I would have crash-tacked Xan and been half
way back. Additionally, I wouldn't be able to keep an eye on the COB.

But Xan turns on a dime at any speed. All I have to do is lean a hip
into the tiller, leaving my hands free. A more stately craft with more
crew might consider the option though.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

I'd like to play devil's advocate here, so I'll offer whatever
criticisms of the scheme I can, but in truth I do not really have any
expert opinion about this, I'm just speculating. I think that was what
you were asking for, please forgive me if I misunderstood.


So, from the home office in sunny California, the top ten reasons why I
think this might not work...


1) Trailing a dingy is often untenable during rough conditions, exactly
the time you'd like to incorporate the "quick release" system you proposed.

2) The dingy would need some form of covering to protect it from
becoming swamped, thereby reducing its effectiveness as a "life raft"
for the MOB.

3) The overall amount of drag the dingy would add to the vessel's
progress over the entire passage would not compensate the practical gain
of using this approach over a "life sling" or other similar device.

4) You increase the chances of fouling the prop or rudder by
continuously towing a dingy, thereby offsetting any benefits you might
have gained.

5) The dingy might be better employed as an additional search and rescue
vehicle, especially if the MOB is incapacitated and/or unable to place
themselves back on board.

6) The dingy could be lost during the attempted rescue, thereby greatly
endangering the rest of the crew should the vessel flounder.

7) The dingy could act to further injure the MOB, complicating an
already difficult situation.

8) Even if the MOB could self rescue, there is still the very real
possibility that the dingy would be overturned again.

9) Bringing the dingy back on board would require some form of winching
system in any kind of weather. This could complicate the boat layout
or its maneuverability.

10) It just looks funny.


KLC Lewis wrote:
But this inflatable dink has me rethinking things. By towing the dink when
weather allows, if crew should go overboard the dinghy could be cut loose
immediately. This would provide conscious MOB with a boat to swim towards,
and give rescue crew another marker (though one with more windage) to help
with locating the missing crew. The floating line in the water would also
give the MOB something to grab, and its streaming direction would offer
clues as to the current and rate of drift, assuming it's not being trailed
behind a wind-driven dink.

And, of course, trailing a dinghy in the water in fair weather could become
a handful if the wind picks up.

Any thoughts?

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

I think I'm going to try a variation on one of the previously-mentioned
ideas: Short painter (three boat lengths, or 100 feet for good measure)
but additional MOB line (same polypropylene or other floating line) on a
spool. Quick release on the spool would allow the rest of the painter (as
MOB line) to pay out while the boat encircles the MOB. I think it's worth
experimenting with. The inflatable stays attached to the boat, as does
the line.




How are you planning on trying it?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Oh, I figure I'll pick up an expendable crewman at the marina and toss them
overboard. That's what Captain Kirk would do.

"AMPowers" wrote in message
...
I'd like to play devil's advocate here, so I'll offer whatever criticisms
of the scheme I can, but in truth I do not really have any expert opinion
about this, I'm just speculating. I think that was what you were asking
for, please forgive me if I misunderstood.


So, from the home office in sunny California, the top ten reasons why I
think this might not work...


1) Trailing a dingy is often untenable during rough conditions, exactly
the time you'd like to incorporate the "quick release" system you
proposed.

2) The dingy would need some form of covering to protect it from becoming
swamped, thereby reducing its effectiveness as a "life raft" for the MOB.

3) The overall amount of drag the dingy would add to the vessel's progress
over the entire passage would not compensate the practical gain of using
this approach over a "life sling" or other similar device.

4) You increase the chances of fouling the prop or rudder by continuously
towing a dingy, thereby offsetting any benefits you might have gained.

5) The dingy might be better employed as an additional search and rescue
vehicle, especially if the MOB is incapacitated and/or unable to place
themselves back on board.

6) The dingy could be lost during the attempted rescue, thereby greatly
endangering the rest of the crew should the vessel flounder.

7) The dingy could act to further injure the MOB, complicating an already
difficult situation.

8) Even if the MOB could self rescue, there is still the very real
possibility that the dingy would be overturned again.

9) Bringing the dingy back on board would require some form of winching
system in any kind of weather. This could complicate the boat layout or
its maneuverability.

10) It just looks funny.



Worthy of consideration, all. Thanks for your thoughts! :-)

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

I think I'm going to try a variation on one of the previously-mentioned
ideas: Short painter (three boat lengths, or 100 feet for good measure)
but additional MOB line (same polypropylene or other floating line) on a
spool. Quick release on the spool would allow the rest of the painter
(as MOB line) to pay out while the boat encircles the MOB. I think it's
worth experimenting with. The inflatable stays attached to the boat, as
does the line.




How are you planning on trying it?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Oh, I figure I'll pick up an expendable crewman at the marina and toss
them overboard. That's what Captain Kirk would do.



Ah... well, I know some people I could volunteer. g


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

One thing to keep in mind is that everytime you add something to do, you
in some way take away from the actual recovery. The best approach is to
stop the boat next to the MOB, protecting them from the wind/waves. Then
figure a way to get them aboard.

Very important in cold water, when speed is vital. Not so important in warm
water when you've got time to experiment a bit. My way:

1. Get them attached to the boat with whatever . . . then pull 'em to the
bathing ladder, get 'em to climb up. ( I know, a whole lot of people will
groan about the possibility of injury in waves. Injury is much better than
losing your ability to climb thru chill due to hanging around. See next.)

2. If they can't climb the ladder (too cold? unfit? It's not there?) launch
whatever dinghy you have (include the liferaft in this list in cold water),
stabilise the yacht motion, let 'em climb in. (this is where the OP idea is
good news - dink's already there.)

3. When they can't climb in, send someone down to drag 'em in.

4. If you're the only one, decide whether it's two at risk, or one to die.
Difficult, eh?

Alternative 2. Attach rope (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)
Alternative 3. Pull 'em up (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)

Most people find any alternatives fail with only two aboard.

My conclusions:

A. It's foolish to go to sea in a boat which can't be boarded from the water
by a fit person.
B. A ladder's best, next best is a dinghy/liferaft in the water.
C. Any other system which hasn't been rehearsed won't work without a strong
crew.

OK, fire away.

JimB
www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
comparing the cruise areas of Europe, Greece in detail.