In the past, I tended to agree with the old view that towing a dink behind
the mothership was "lubberly," and ill-advised. I still tend to think that
way when a hard dink is involved, but recently purchased a 9 foot Genesis
(Walker Bay) inflatable. With this monster sitting, inflated and assembled,
in our dining room last evening, it suddenly occurred to me how much like a
very large PFD this dinghy is, which has me reconsidering my standard MOB
routine.

At this time my standing MOB Rule is that upon crew going aglub, the first
thing to do is to toss them a horseshoe with floating line attached, keeping
an eye on them (or trying to) while coming about for rescue attempts. Other
than retrieving "Oscar" in the Navy (for non-squids, "Oscar" is a stuffed
manakin made of sailor clothing wearing a PFD, used for Man Overboard
drills) and PFD's or rings tossed overboard, I've not had the misfortune (so
far) of having to actually rescue an actual person.

But this inflatable dink has me rethinking things. By towing the dink when
weather allows, if crew should go overboard the dinghy could be cut loose
immediately. This would provide conscious MOB with a boat to swim towards,
and give rescue crew another marker (though one with more windage) to help
with locating the missing crew. The floating line in the water would also
give the MOB something to grab, and its streaming direction would offer
clues as to the current and rate of drift, assuming it's not being trailed
behind a wind-driven dink.

And, of course, trailing a dinghy in the water in fair weather could become
a handful if the wind picks up.

Any thoughts?

--
Karin
Rawson 30 ketch "Escapade"
aka "Essie"

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
...
In the past, I tended to agree with the old view that towing a dink behind
the mothership was "lubberly," and ill-advised. I still tend to think that
way when a hard dink is involved, but recently purchased a 9 foot Genesis
(Walker Bay) inflatable. With this monster sitting, inflated and
assembled, in our dining room last evening, it suddenly occurred to me how
much like a very large PFD this dinghy is, which has me reconsidering my
standard MOB routine.

At this time my standing MOB Rule is that upon crew going aglub, the first
thing to do is to toss them a horseshoe with floating line attached,
keeping an eye on them (or trying to) while coming about for rescue
attempts. Other than retrieving "Oscar" in the Navy (for non-squids,
"Oscar" is a stuffed manakin made of sailor clothing wearing a PFD, used
for Man Overboard drills) and PFD's or rings tossed overboard, I've not
had the misfortune (so far) of having to actually rescue an actual person.

But this inflatable dink has me rethinking things. By towing the dink when
weather allows, if crew should go overboard the dinghy could be cut loose
immediately. This would provide conscious MOB with a boat to swim towards,
and give rescue crew another marker (though one with more windage) to help
with locating the missing crew. The floating line in the water would also
give the MOB something to grab, and its streaming direction would offer
clues as to the current and rate of drift, assuming it's not being trailed
behind a wind-driven dink.

And, of course, trailing a dinghy in the water in fair weather could
become a handful if the wind picks up.

Any thoughts?


My initial thought is that the situations when someone goes aglub do not
usually lend themselves to having any useful help from an unattached dink.
The typical situation would be one of fairly high winds and seas, and losing
a dink in those conditions would disappear it almost immediately from the
area. A dink made of what you describe would be highly susceptible to being
wind-blown; thus, something with more windage would be a disadvantage. My
personal preference would be to throw multiple objects that float, which is
described as littering the water.

In addition, the generally accepted rule of preventing hypothermia is for
the MOB *not* to attempt to swim, as this uses up useful heat reserves in a
futile attempt to catch the boat. In practice, with a conscious person,
that's going to be ignored if the rescue boat is within a boat length or
less. If the person is conscious, I would talk to them as well as other crew
members, for one thing telling the MOB not to swim.

I certainly understand the tempting nature of using the dink, but I think
the deficit outweighs the advantage.

I'm fortunate that I've never experienced a true MOB emergency, but I've
been in the water on practice MOBs, and I've been aboard when others have
gone over deliberately. Well, I did push a woman into the water in the BVI
once, so I could get some recovery practice, but she didn't spill her drink,
so I don't think that counts. g

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

My initial thought is that the situations when someone goes aglub do not
usually lend themselves to having any useful help from an unattached dink.
The typical situation would be one of fairly high winds and seas, and
losing a dink in those conditions would disappear it almost immediately
from the area. A dink made of what you describe would be highly
susceptible to being wind-blown; thus, something with more windage would
be a disadvantage. My personal preference would be to throw multiple
objects that float, which is described as littering the water.

In addition, the generally accepted rule of preventing hypothermia is for
the MOB *not* to attempt to swim, as this uses up useful heat reserves in
a futile attempt to catch the boat. In practice, with a conscious person,
that's going to be ignored if the rescue boat is within a boat length or
less. If the person is conscious, I would talk to them as well as other
crew members, for one thing telling the MOB not to swim.

I certainly understand the tempting nature of using the dink, but I think
the deficit outweighs the advantage.

I'm fortunate that I've never experienced a true MOB emergency, but I've
been in the water on practice MOBs, and I've been aboard when others have
gone over deliberately. Well, I did push a woman into the water in the BVI
once, so I could get some recovery practice, but she didn't spill her
drink, so I don't think that counts. g

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


"J",

Valid thoughts, many of which were on my mind as well. Thanks for the reply!
:-)

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

My initial thought is that the situations when someone goes aglub do not
usually lend themselves to having any useful help from an unattached
dink. The typical situation would be one of fairly high winds and seas,
and losing a dink in those conditions would disappear it almost
immediately from the area. A dink made of what you describe would be
highly susceptible to being wind-blown; thus, something with more windage
would be a disadvantage. My personal preference would be to throw
multiple objects that float, which is described as littering the water.

In addition, the generally accepted rule of preventing hypothermia is for
the MOB *not* to attempt to swim, as this uses up useful heat reserves in
a futile attempt to catch the boat. In practice, with a conscious person,
that's going to be ignored if the rescue boat is within a boat length or
less. If the person is conscious, I would talk to them as well as other
crew members, for one thing telling the MOB not to swim.

I certainly understand the tempting nature of using the dink, but I think
the deficit outweighs the advantage.

I'm fortunate that I've never experienced a true MOB emergency, but I've
been in the water on practice MOBs, and I've been aboard when others have
gone over deliberately. Well, I did push a woman into the water in the
BVI once, so I could get some recovery practice, but she didn't spill her
drink, so I don't think that counts. g

"J",

Valid thoughts, many of which were on my mind as well. Thanks for the
reply! :-)



Unfortunately, retrieving a conscious MOB is a cake-walk compared to an
unconscious one. If you've never tried it, get a weighted dummy or sack with
rocks that's 150 - 200 lbs and try retrieving it while on a mooring or at
anchor (not at the dock, as that removes the motion of the boat due to
current/wind). It really takes some planning, especially if the person doing
the retrieving is smaller than the MOB.

Jonathan

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

My initial thought is that the situations when someone goes aglub do not
usually lend themselves to having any useful help from an unattached dink.
The typical situation would be one of fairly high winds and seas, and losing
a dink in those conditions would disappear it almost immediately from the
area. A dink made of what you describe would be highly susceptible to being
wind-blown; thus, something with more windage would be a disadvantage. My
personal preference would be to throw multiple objects that float, which is
described as littering the water.

So what if you attach a much longer line to the dink that is tied off short
as to keep it at a shorter interval and, using a quick release knot, allow it
to float much further behind the boat so as to give the MOB a line to grab
and a dink to crawl into if possible before throwing all sorts of floatation
overboard. Would this also provide a line that would encircle the MOB while
coming about making it easier to retrieve them, provided of course that you
come about on the correct side of the MOB with the line.

Bill

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cruising/200702/1

"scbafreak via BoatKB.com" u25927@uwe wrote in message
news:6db8eefcaef43@uwe...
My initial thought is that the situations when someone goes aglub do not
usually lend themselves to having any useful help from an unattached dink.
The typical situation would be one of fairly high winds and seas, and
losing
a dink in those conditions would disappear it almost immediately from the
area. A dink made of what you describe would be highly susceptible to
being
wind-blown; thus, something with more windage would be a disadvantage. My
personal preference would be to throw multiple objects that float, which
is
described as littering the water.

So what if you attach a much longer line to the dink that is tied off
short
as to keep it at a shorter interval and, using a quick release knot, allow
it
to float much further behind the boat so as to give the MOB a line to grab
and a dink to crawl into if possible before throwing all sorts of
floatation
overboard. Would this also provide a line that would encircle the MOB
while
coming about making it easier to retrieve them, provided of course that
you
come about on the correct side of the MOB with the line.

Bill

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cruising/200702/1



Interesting.. not sure if it would really make that much difference... might
make things worse. With the LifeSling, for example, you encircle the MOB
with the line, which eventually brings the attached horseshoe to the MOB. I
think the dink line might be too big and potentially harmful. Also, when you
get to the end, you have a fairly good size weight at the end, which might
be quite a smack.

I do think dinks should have lines running down the sides to facilitate
entry.

One thing to keep in mind is that everytime you add something to do, you in
some way take away from the actual recovery. The best approach is to stop
the boat next to the MOB, protecting them from the wind/waves. Then figure a
way to get them aboard.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

One thing to keep in mind is that everytime you add something to do, you
in some way take away from the actual recovery. The best approach is to
stop the boat next to the MOB, protecting them from the wind/waves. Then
figure a way to get them aboard.

Very important in cold water, when speed is vital. Not so important in warm
water when you've got time to experiment a bit. My way:

1. Get them attached to the boat with whatever . . . then pull 'em to the
bathing ladder, get 'em to climb up. ( I know, a whole lot of people will
groan about the possibility of injury in waves. Injury is much better than
losing your ability to climb thru chill due to hanging around. See next.)

2. If they can't climb the ladder (too cold? unfit? It's not there?) launch
whatever dinghy you have (include the liferaft in this list in cold water),
stabilise the yacht motion, let 'em climb in. (this is where the OP idea is
good news - dink's already there.)

3. When they can't climb in, send someone down to drag 'em in.

4. If you're the only one, decide whether it's two at risk, or one to die.
Difficult, eh?

Alternative 2. Attach rope (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)
Alternative 3. Pull 'em up (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)

Most people find any alternatives fail with only two aboard.

My conclusions:

A. It's foolish to go to sea in a boat which can't be boarded from the water
by a fit person.
B. A ladder's best, next best is a dinghy/liferaft in the water.
C. Any other system which hasn't been rehearsed won't work without a strong
crew.

OK, fire away.

JimB
www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
comparing the cruise areas of Europe, Greece in detail.

The one thinh I would add to JimB's response ---

My golden rule has always been ---- If you go overboard, you are going to
die. If you don't want to die, don't fall over board. IMHO, this is the
best starting point. If you become too comfortable in the ability of the
crew to do a recovery, you may get a bit too sloopy in your attention to
safety. Having said that, yeah .... have a plan and practice it.



"News f2s" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

One thing to keep in mind is that everytime you add something to do, you
in some way take away from the actual recovery. The best approach is to
stop the boat next to the MOB, protecting them from the wind/waves. Then
figure a way to get them aboard.

Very important in cold water, when speed is vital. Not so important in
warm water when you've got time to experiment a bit. My way:

1. Get them attached to the boat with whatever . . . then pull 'em to the
bathing ladder, get 'em to climb up. ( I know, a whole lot of people will
groan about the possibility of injury in waves. Injury is much better than
losing your ability to climb thru chill due to hanging around. See next.)

2. If they can't climb the ladder (too cold? unfit? It's not there?)
launch whatever dinghy you have (include the liferaft in this list in cold
water), stabilise the yacht motion, let 'em climb in. (this is where the
OP idea is good news - dink's already there.)

3. When they can't climb in, send someone down to drag 'em in.

4. If you're the only one, decide whether it's two at risk, or one to die.
Difficult, eh?

Alternative 2. Attach rope (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)
Alternative 3. Pull 'em up (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)

Most people find any alternatives fail with only two aboard.

My conclusions:

A. It's foolish to go to sea in a boat which can't be boarded from the
water by a fit person.
B. A ladder's best, next best is a dinghy/liferaft in the water.
C. Any other system which hasn't been rehearsed won't work without a
strong crew.

OK, fire away.

JimB
www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
comparing the cruise areas of Europe, Greece in detail.

"News f2s" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

One thing to keep in mind is that everytime you add something to do, you
in some way take away from the actual recovery. The best approach is to
stop the boat next to the MOB, protecting them from the wind/waves. Then
figure a way to get them aboard.

Very important in cold water, when speed is vital. Not so important in
warm water when you've got time to experiment a bit. My way:

Actually, accuracy in getting the boat next to the MOB and getting the boat
stopped is more important than speed. It's better to slow things down and
get it right, unless you're talking about arctic waters. In 55 degree water,
the person will be a live quite a long time.. many hours. However, they'll
be unable to help themselves in 20 minutes or so. The most important thing
to have happen is for the person to have a PFD, since this will extend their
survival time.


1. Get them attached to the boat with whatever . . . then pull 'em to the
bathing ladder, get 'em to climb up. ( I know, a whole lot of people will
groan about the possibility of injury in waves. Injury is much better than
losing your ability to climb thru chill due to hanging around. See next.)

Ladders on the stern are not a good way to recover someone, due to wave/boat
slam. The boat is a lot more stable on the beam, with less chance of getting
hit by the boat, the prop, etc.

2. If they can't climb the ladder (too cold? unfit? It's not there?)
launch whatever dinghy you have (include the liferaft in this list in cold
water), stabilise the yacht motion, let 'em climb in. (this is where the
OP idea is good news - dink's already there.)

Maybe... even probably, but why not just rig something with the tools
available on the boat... you have winches, halyards... use them.

3. When they can't climb in, send someone down to drag 'em in.

Bad idea in most cases.

4. If you're the only one, decide whether it's two at risk, or one to die.
Difficult, eh?

If you do things right, you may not have to make this choice.

Alternative 2. Attach rope (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)
Alternative 3. Pull 'em up (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)

Most people find any alternatives fail with only two aboard.

My conclusions:

A. It's foolish to go to sea in a boat which can't be boarded from the
water by a fit person.

Even a couple of feet of freeboard will prevent most people from climbing on
by themselves.

B. A ladder's best, next best is a dinghy/liferaft in the water.

Nope. Totally disagree off the stern. Off the beam, perhaps, but watch out
for hand/foot damage from the space between the ladder and the boat.

C. Any other system which hasn't been rehearsed won't work without a
strong crew.

Every system/method must be practiced or it will not work. That's the bottom
line.

OK, fire away.

JimB
www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
comparing the cruise areas of Europe, Greece in detail.




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"News f2s" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
snip
A. It's foolish to go to sea in a boat which can't be boarded from the
water by a fit person.
B. A ladder's best, next best is a dinghy/liferaft in the water.
C. Any other system which hasn't been rehearsed won't work without a
strong crew.

OK, fire away.

I remember hearing a story some year ago, may have been a myth, may have
been real. the coastguard in australia supposedly came upon a yacht, with 4
or 5 people around it, all drowned and no survivors..... it happened in
calm waters. The theory was that they had all decided to go for a swim,
without hooking up the swim ladder. they must have died off eventually one
by one, tiring themselves out trying to get back aboard, realizing they
couldnt. even if the story is just a myth, the image stuck in my head
pretty well.

Shaun