Roger Long wrote:
snip
roger would it be ok to email re the horn vane...?
Shaun

Sure.

Meanwhile, here is my current installation plan. Note that not one part of
the vane will be visible above deck and inboard of the rail. I will open up
the seat locker for access to the two lines that connect, disconnect, and
adjust the vane. If I get tired of doing that, I can always lead the lines
through to cam cleats in the cockpit. That just means more rope underfoot
and more confusion so I think opening up the seat locker will work out best.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Windvane.pdf

Aft of the rail, everything will be about as clean and uncluttered as
anything like this could ever be.

I've already purchased the ST1000 tiller pilot that will also go in the
Lazarette. The Cape Horn has an extension on the shaft that controls the
servo paddle with a lever. A shock cord will be anchored and tied into a
loop on a line that goes to the tiller pilot shaft. Under power, I'll just
drop the loop over the end of the shaft and turn on the tiller pilot which
will then drive the servo pendulum. To disconnect the autopilot in an
emergency, just reach in and pop the line off the lever or release the
control lines for the vane itself.

I got a temporary deal on the autopilot and it came with a remote dodger
unit on a cable long enough that I will be able to walk forward on watch for
lobster pots. Another steering mode will be to stand at the stern and just
manipulate the windvane by hand.

--
Roger Long

On Feb 15, 6:26 pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
I wouldn't want anyone thinking of buying a boat to read some of the posts
about the FP saga and get the idea that there actually is any such thing as
equity in a used boat. Maybe in the very narrow sense of being the amount of
principle paid down on a purchase loan but not in any way that you can count
on.

Sweat equity in particular evaporates just about as fast as its namesake.
These are simply the harsh facts of the boating life. The people advising
S&L to give up on the FP because of equity just don't have their eye on the
ball.

If I counted the hours I've spent on my boat at yard rates, I have about
fifty grand in a boat that was about half that out of pocket. I would be
lucky to get 18 K for her in this market. We'll be spending about four
thousand this spring to put a Cape Horn windvane and autopilot in her. After
that she'll be worth about eighteen five. It's grim. Raising kids is pretty
grim too, if you look at it that way. It isn't about the money.

FP is probably a quarter million dollar boat if S&L were to count their
sweat equity. If they had made it into Marathon and decided this wasn't the
life for them, they wouldn't have gotten that back. Most of this effort went
into making the FP just the way they wanted her. 95% of that stuff is still
there.

Except for a KISS generator and some other replaceable equipment items, some
sails and rigging (basically consumable items on a sailboat), the only thing
that she won't have after some topside cosmetic work is factory original
tabbing and rudder. That will diminish her value someday but won't be a
concern to S&L until they are ready for assisted living. That lost value is
the only thing, along with some innocence and self confidence, that they
left out on Content Keys.

There is that big salvage bill. That's what insurance is for.

Now, if this had happened on the delivery trip just after they bought the
boat, sure, it might be time to bail. The pay out for the totaled boat would
be close to the purchase price and they wouldn't have the unrecoverable
sweat equity in her yet. Just start over with another boat.

It would also be a different story if they were not capable of doing any of
the work themselves. In that case, they wouldn't be cut out for this life
anyway.

They signed up for adventure; not a beach condo. That's what adventure is,
the unexpected. A few more months of fiberglass work won't be much in the
grand scheme of things after they have twenty or thirty thousand miles
behind them.

--
Roger Long

In 1980, my wife and I quit our jobs, flew with our 13-year-old
daughter to Europe, bought a 10-year-old blue-water boat (Rival 41)
using the very strong dollar of the time, sailed her to the Caribbean,
then up the East Coast to Virginia, where we resumed our careers. We
sold the boat in Annapolis, counted up our shekels and discovered we
we were about $200 richer than we had been when we left the US a year
earlier. And what a year we had!

Eight years ago, we bought a 10-year-old bluewater boat (Stevens
Custom 50) that we're still sailing around and about, with no hope of
ever recouping our investment.

Rob

Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:07:16 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:


Wayne ,, I suppose I really don't need a vane. But I have always wanted
one. I just like the idea of a natural way of steering using the wind,
point of sail,etc.

Kinda nuts I guess.


I felt the same way at one time, having always had a fascination for
complex mechanical assemblies. There is definitely something cool
about the appearance of the older vanes. It was also the mark of a
boat that had been places.

The installation effort looks like a nightmare however, and you end up
with a lot of weight and clutter on the stern, all of it highly
exposed to the elements and docking mishaps. There is also a certain
hazzard involved. I believe it was either Hal Roth's wife or Lin
Pardey who once got her hand caught up in the mechanism, causing
serious injury of course.


Don't some windvanes also have their own rudder to
steer the boat? That's a serious advantage in the
event of a main steering or rudder failure in
heavy seas.

Don W.

Yo,, Captain Roger ... I got an email back from the Voyager maker. He said
the Voyager weighs 30lbs. It is his "new" model for boats up to 32'. He
said it would work fine for me. Price is $2500. That is for a tiller boat.

Is the Cape Horn lighter than 30lbs?

The Voyager vane for boats to 32' is a pretty simple arrangement. Basically
the pendulum vane with rudder etc and then you connect through blocks to the
tiller.

The owner of the company used to work for the Windpilot vane company but in
Canada.

========

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
NE Sailboat wrote:

It is a Voyager Windvane.. here is the web site connect:
http://www.voyagerwindvanes.com/Voyager/index.aspx

Could you take a look. Post what your opinion is. Or send me a
direct mail.

As a designer of things marine, I find the simplicity and elegance of the
Cape Horn very appealing, both in appearance and function. They have
certainly proven themselves and the one I am installing is 20 pounds
lighter than the Voyager. That counts for something when it's way out on,
beyond actually, the end of the boat.

The mounting tube of the Cape Horn, with it's struts on the inside, make
for a very strong attachement. I'm not too enthusiastic about the clunky
looking bracket of the Voyager although I'm sure it's actually strong
enough and probably works well. The Cape Horn is so clean and simple it
looks like the boat was designed with it instead of something bolted on
later.

The Cape Horn will work just as well with a tiller as a wheel. That is
certainly no reason to pick one over the other. You should get Yves
information packet before deciding. It comes with a DVD of his around the
world sail that is well worth watching. I find videos of other people
sailing almost as boring as videos of other people having sex but I
enjoyed every minute of this one.

--
Roger Long

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:13:14 GMT, Don W
wrote:

Don't some windvanes also have their own rudder to
steer the boat? That's a serious advantage in the
event of a main steering or rudder failure in
heavy seas.

Yes, for offshore bluewater sailing that is a nice plus, and of course
those are the conditions where a windvane adds a lot of value as a
self steering system.

For coastal cruising however a redundant rudder is really not all that
necessary.

NE Sailboat wrote:
Yo,, Captain Roger ... I got an email back from the Voyager maker. He
said the Voyager weighs 30lbs. It is his "new" model for boats up
to 32'. He said it would work fine for me. Price is $2500. That is
for a tiller boat.

His new model is five pounds lighter than the Cape Horn then. $190.00
cheaper.

Installation appears much simpler, just bolt on and run the lines. This
probably isn't a bad option for a tiller boat.

Not having extra lines in the cockpit, no unsightly drum on the wheel (a
finger and clothing catcher for the unwary), electric autopilot connection
out of the weather below deck, emergency steering via lines in case of
steering cable breakage, all make the Cape Horn a no brainer for me though.

--
Roger Long

Yes, I have a hydrovane which has it's own rudder.

Courtney
"Don W" wrote in message
et...


Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:07:16 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:


Wayne ,, I suppose I really don't need a vane. But I have always wanted
one. I just like the idea of a natural way of steering using the wind,
point of sail,etc.

Kinda nuts I guess.


I felt the same way at one time, having always had a fascination for
complex mechanical assemblies. There is definitely something cool
about the appearance of the older vanes. It was also the mark of a
boat that had been places.

The installation effort looks like a nightmare however, and you end up
with a lot of weight and clutter on the stern, all of it highly
exposed to the elements and docking mishaps. There is also a certain
hazzard involved. I believe it was either Hal Roth's wife or Lin
Pardey who once got her hand caught up in the mechanism, causing
serious injury of course.


Don't some windvanes also have their own rudder to
steer the boat? That's a serious advantage in the
event of a main steering or rudder failure in
heavy seas.

Don W.